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PRTD after 33 years?

mnisar

Newbie
Oct 24, 2017
3
0
Edmonton
Visa Office......
Pakistan
Greetings,

My parents and I immigrated to Canada in 1982. My parents and I went back to Pakistan in 1984. I came back later and settled in Canada.

Recently, my father passed away. My mother now wishes to return to Canada. I applied for a super visa for her to come and stay with me for an extended period of time.

During the visa processing, lo and behold, we discovered that my mother is still deemed a PR of Canada. I am now considering 3 options and am looking for advice:
1- Apply for a PRTD. Is this even possible/probable on H&C grounds after 33 years of absence?
2- Revoke the PR status, and continue with the super visa application
3- Ask my mother to travel to the US and then cross over to Canada. Could she be denied entry at the border since she has been away for a long time?

Our preference would be to maintain the PR status if possible.

Thank you.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
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Well, that’s a long time.......however, I wouldn’t just renounce her PR status. That would be my last choice. With either a PRTD or crossing the US border, the chances are pretty good she will either get refused the PRTD or reported at the border. Personally, I would choose the US border, as even if she is reported, she can enter regardless. At that point it would be a matter of appealing, with the option of applying for H&C if that failed (she has to be in Canada for that). And there is also the possibility, however small, that the CBSA officer will let her in without reporting her. With a PRTD, I suspect the chances of missing RO by 30+ year would be hard to overlook.

My 2 cents.
 
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mats

Hero Member
Nov 2, 2010
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I also concur with Buletruck. Try option 3. The CBSA will let you in. Who knows, some kind officer may not report it too. And take it forward from there.
 
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scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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Agreed with everyone else. PRTD has zero chances of being approved. Either have her enter Canada and hope she's not reported - or have her officially give up her PR status sponsor her for PR.
 
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mnisar

Newbie
Oct 24, 2017
3
0
Edmonton
Visa Office......
Pakistan
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have already purchased health insurance for her as part of the super visa process.

Some follow up questions for Option (3):
Is there a chance that the CBSA will turn her away at the border? She still has the original IMM1000 doc. Would that be sufficient to enter?
She's a bit old now so I am hesitant in putting her through any unnecessary hardship.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,832
20,491
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have already purchased health insurance for her as part of the super visa process.

Some follow up questions for Option (3):
Is there a chance that the CBSA will turn her away at the border? She still has the original IMM1000 doc. Would that be sufficient to enter?
She's a bit old now so I am hesitant in putting her through any unnecessary hardship.
They will let her in. However at the border, she may be reported for failing to meet the residency requirement. If she's reported, she will have to appear at a hearing to argue why she should be allowed to keep her status. Since she doesn't have a reasonable H&C case, she should expect to lose the hearing and have her PR status officially revoked. Once that happens, she will need to leave Canada.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
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If she came on a supervisa she would need third party health insurance anyway, so do the same until she qualifies to renew her pr.[/QUOT

Isn't supervisa insurance only emergency coverage? Highly unlikely that a senior might not need ongoing care or prescriptions. Something to keep in mind when deciding what you should do.
 

mnisar

Newbie
Oct 24, 2017
3
0
Edmonton
Visa Office......
Pakistan
The coverage plans available are pretty flexible. Main factors are coverage limit, deductibles and coverage of pre-existing medical conditions. Bottom line is how much you're willing to pay.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,268
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I concur in much of what has been posted.

I am further responding, however, because the unique situation may make a big difference in the odds of winning an appeal of a PoE issued 44(1) Report and Departure Order.

First:

During the visa processing, lo and behold, we discovered that my mother is still deemed a PR of Canada.
In addition to the original landing document, if it was a communication from IRCC which alerted you that she is still deemed a PR of Canada, a copy of that in hand as she arrives at a PoE should help verifying she is a PR, still a PR, and also illuminate the circumstances of her return to Canada.

Of course to do this she will need status to travel to the U.S. And then travel to a land border crossing.

But I agree with others that the odds of being granted a PR Travel Document are very poor, and the odds of winning an appeal of that are also very poor. Probably not much chance of even getting a special PR TD to travel to Canada pending the appeal.


Better odds of successful appeal once in Canada:

In contrast, while it is very difficult if not impossible to reliably forecast the outcome of an appeal for a border-issued 44(1) Report, the odds of succeeding in such an appeal go up considerably if in the meantime she is in Canada and it would impose a significant hardship on her if she is required to leave Canada and return to her home country. The IAD hearing is in effect de novo. While the days in Canada since arriving at the PoE, and being issued the Report, do not count in the calculation of time in Canada, all the other circumstances attendant her life since arriving in Canada do count in the assessment of H&C reasons.

Most PR RO H&C cases are based on explaining reasons for not returning to Canada sooner (and she should indeed make the case that it was her spouse's decision which compelled her to leave and not return to Canada sooner). But prospective hardships attendant having to leave Canada can be very important reasons why a PR should be allowed to retain PR status. For a person currently abroad (such as a PR applying for a PR TD), that in itself tends to show it is not an excessive hardship for that person to lose status to live in Canada. But, once she is in Canada, and has been in Canada six or ten months, preferably longer, waiting for an appeal hearing, the IAD would have to weigh how much hardship it will be to send her to Pakistan. If her primary family is now in Canada, that could tip the scales.

A lawyer's help would be a very good idea. As I have oft noted, all H&C cases tend to be tricky, at best. The length of absence in this situation weighs very heavily against allowing the individual to keep PR status. But it seems to me this is nonetheless a situation in which a well-crafted and prosecuted case should have a decent chance of success.

And contrary to what some say, even if she loses the appeal and loses PR status, that does not necessarily mean she must then leave Canada. While I am not well-acquainted with the process and procedures involved in contesting deportation, there are definitely some avenues for seeking either alternative status in Canada or for relief from a Removal Order. In particular, I believe she would be able to make a separate H&C case for being allowed to stay in Canada. This is another reason why it would be important to have a lawyer's assistance and to be prepared to pursue other recourse in the event the appeal is denied. I am not sure, but my sense is that given the differences in what constitutes sufficient H&C grounds to allow retaining PR status versus H&C grounds in other contexts, especially as to challenging physical deportation, even if the H&C case to retain PR status fails, there may be a sufficient H&C case to avoid physical deportation.

However, all this is dependent on her being able to travel via the U.S. so she can arrive at a Canadian PoE at a land crossing.
 
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R

rish888

Guest
I concur with all the observations in Dpenabill's post, chiefly that of your mother being better off at a land border if she has/can get a U.S. visa.

One note I would like to add is that assuming your mother losses the appeal, the one avenue she has is to apply for Permanent Resident status (afresh) on H&C considerations. However, an application for PR based on H&C does not delay the enforcement of her departure order, she will still need to leave the country within 30 days of loosing the appeal. However, assuming she looses on appeal then the super visa IMO would be a better option.

One thing to note is that assuming she manages to get a multiple entry visa (I know the U.S. issues visas for up to 10 years) then in case she has to leave she may not need to go to Pakistan. She could stay in a border town like Buffalo while the Super visa is being processed. (Which is generally under 3 months.)
 
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