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PR renewal, need urgent help!

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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I got PR card renewal on H&C on March 23. I applied on august 21.
However since I am outside Canada I needed PRTD which was rejected by Embassy of Canada Abu Dhabi as I did not meet RO,
I have been asked to make an appeal to IAD.
So getting approval from IRCC was of no use.
Since you have been approved for the PR Card renewal, can you fly to the U.S. and then enter Canada via a land PoE? This would eliminate the need for a PRTD and you would just need to provide evidence to the CBSA officer (such as an expired PR Card) that you are still a PR. As long as the officer knows that your PR status has not been lost (revoked or renounced) you will be allowed to enter Canada.

It would seem that an approved PR Card renewal before a denied PRTD would take precedence, but...I'm not entirely certain.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Since you have been approved for the PR Card renewal, can you fly to the U.S. and then enter Canada via a land PoE? This would eliminate the need for a PRTD and you would just need to provide evidence to the CBSA officer (such as an expired PR Card) that you are still a PR. As long as the officer knows that your PR status has not been lost (revoked or renounced) you will be allowed to enter Canada.

It would seem that an approved PR Card renewal before a denied PRTD would take precedence, but...I'm not entirely certain.
Probably understood, but to be clear the decision denying a PR TD is a decision that terminates @bhargav51's PR status, subject to appeal.

Thus, even if able to return to Canada, technically they could still enter Canada within sixty days of the decision denying the PR TD, the time within which to make an appeal, but would need to file an appeal to stay and have any chance of keeping PR status.

If an appeal is made before coming to Canada, and then @bhargav51 is able to return to Canada, they can enter Canada PENDING the outcome of the appeal, needing to win the appeal in order to keep PR status and stay.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Probably understood, but to be clear the decision denying a PR TD is a decision that terminates @bhargav51's PR status, subject to appeal.

Thus, even if able to return to Canada, technically they could still enter Canada within sixty days of the decision denying the PR TD, the time within which to make an appeal, but would need to file an appeal to stay and have any chance of keeping PR status.

If an appeal is made before coming to Canada, and then @bhargav51 is able to return to Canada, they can enter Canada PENDING the outcome of the appeal, needing to win the appeal in order to keep PR status and stay.
Yes, but since the PR card renewal was approved on March 23rd, before the PRTD was rejected, does that actually invalidate the approved card renewal?
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Yes, but since the PR card renewal was approved on March 23rd, before the PRTD was rejected, does that actually invalidate the approved card renewal?
However one designates or denotes what happens, whatever terms are used, when a visa office denies a PR TD application for inadmissibility based on a failure to meet the RO, that decision TERMINATES the individual's PR status unless it is set aside pursuant to a successful appeal.

Longer Explanation:


I do not know how IRCC designates the actions it takes internally when, in one fashion or another, there is a decision to withhold delivery after issuance of a new card has been approved. There are various circumstances in which IRCC approves a PR card application, and issues a new PR card, but subsequently declines to deliver the new card to the PR. Is it fair to say this will "actually invalidate the approved card renewal?" Shrug. However IRCC designates or denotes this in the PR's GCMS records, the result is the PR does not get the new PR card.

If the decision to not deliver the new PR card is based on the fact that there has been a PR TD application denied (for inadmissibility based on breach of RO), as long as there is a right of appeal pending the PR will be entitled to a one-year PR card pending the outcome of the appeal (note that the PR needs to be IN Canada to be eligible for the one-year card).

The overriding, most important thing to recognize is that the decision denying the PR TD TERMINATES the individual's PR status UNLESS there is an appeal and that decision is set aside. Even if IRCC has very recently approved issuing a new PR card. Even if IRCC has actually issued the PR card and, for example, sent it to the individual's address in Canada.

When a visa office decision denying a PR TD application takes effect, that will invalidate any PR card that has been approved, issued, or delivered. It is not that denying the PR TD invalidates a previous decision to issue a PR card, it terminates the individual's PR status such that any PR card, no matter how recently approved, is rendered invalid.

An illustration of this that might help clarify: PR-Jack is issued and delivered a brand new PR card but PR-Jack forgets the card when taking a trip to Mexico, so PR-Jack applies for a PR TD in order to fly back to Canada. If that PR TD application is denied (for inadmissibility) that will terminate PR-Jack's status unless there is an appeal and it is successful. The brand new PR card left behind in PR-Jack's drawer is NO longer valid.

Similarly for a new card that IRCC has not yet delivered, such as where IRCC will only deliver the card in-person, the new PR card being held at a local office waiting for the PR to appear to pick it up. Probably not accurate to say that the denial of the PR TD invalidates the decision to issue the new card, but it means the new card is no longer valid when the decision denying the PR TD takes effect.

It is that latter aspect, *when the decision takes effect*, that tends to cause some confusion. There is a period of time after the decision to deny the PR TD during which the PR continues to have PR status. So, if the PR can manage to travel to Canada via the U.S., during this period of time, they will be entitled to enter Canada. Whether they retain PR status and can stay will depend on whether they successfully appeal the decision terminating their PR status. In the meantime they are eligible for a "status card," but instead of being issued and delivered a five-year PR card, IRCC will typically give them a one-year card.

In particular, a decision denying a PR TD (just like a Removal Order issued at a PoE) does NOT take immediate effect. When a PR TD is denied the decision terminating PR status does not take effect for at least sixty days. If an appeal is made within those sixty days the decision does not take effect while the appeal is pending. (And, obviously, if the appeal is successful, the decision denying the PR TD is set aside, so it will not take effect.)

So, in regards to @bhargav51's situation, if they are able to travel to Canada via the U.S. either (1) within sixty days of the decision denying the PR TD, or (2) after making a timely appeal, they will be allowed to enter Canada. They will be eligible for a one-year PR card. But that card (or even if, say, the local office does deliver a five year card) is ONLY valid for as long as the appeal is pending unless the visa office decision is set aside on appeal.

Caveat: there are (as usual) potential wrinkles. In @bhargav51's situation, for example, there has been some indication there was an affirmative H&C decision involved in deciding to approve issuing a new PR card. If that is what has in fact happened, that decision should have been given significant weight in the visa office's decision making (enough to change the outcome), and this would probably make for a much stronger appeal. But that does not change things procedurally in the meantime. The decision denying the PR TD, even if it was wrongly made without due consideration given a preceding H&C decision by IRCC, must be successfully appealed to avoid the loss of PR status.

(Note: I doubt there was such an affirmative H&C decision, that rather there was a tentative decision pending the PR's appearance for an in-person pick-up at a local office in Canada. But this is just what I apprehend, not something I know.)
 
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armoured

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(Note: I doubt there was such an affirmative H&C decision, that rather there was a tentative decision pending the PR's appearance for an in-person pick-up at a local office in Canada. But this is just what I apprehend, not something I know.)
I think this is the key question/fact of relevance in this whole case, whether it was in fact an H&C decision or not.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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I think this is the key question/fact of relevance in this whole case, whether it was in fact an H&C decision or not.
What needs to be emphasized, however, is that given the decision denying a PR TD, @bhargav51 must appeal and succeed in the appeal in order to save PR status. Regardless what was decided attendant the PR card application.

What is really important for PRs to understand is that a decision approving issuance of a new PR card, even if the card is issued (and even if it is delivered to the individual), does NOT protect them from subsequent RO compliance examinations, potentially resulting in decisions terminating their PR status, if they are examined and determined to be in breach of the RO when they next arrive at a PoE or, if need be, when they apply for a PR TD abroad.

That is, even if there was a formal positive H&C adjudication by IRCC in regards to the PR card application, as of the negative PR TD decision @bhargav51 has been determined to be inadmissible, and must appeal, or that decision will effectively terminate PR status when it takes effect, that is when sixty days have elapsed.

To my view, the key to this case (assuming there is an appeal) is the extent to which @bhargav51 CURRENTLY (based on facts and circumstances to date) has a strong H&C case and whether it is possible to come to Canada to stay in the meantime, pending the appeal.
 

VJ@1981

Member
Apr 3, 2023
14
1
HI all, for online application for renewal of PR, is photo of current PR to be uploaded, is the one of destroyed PR or intact Pr card?
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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HI all, for online application for renewal of PR, is photo of current PR to be uploaded, is the one of destroyed PR or intact Pr card?
No. You need to provide a current photo that conforms to the specifications that IRCC requires.
 

bhargav51

Member
Apr 19, 2023
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0
I AM PLANNING TO REAPPLY FOR PRTD FOR RECOSIDERATION AS I HAD NOT GIVEN FULL DETAILS AND EVIDENCES IN APPLYING FOR PRTD EARLIER. IS THIS ALLOWED AND WILL THEY RECONSIDER MY APPLICATION AGAIN
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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I AM PLANNING TO REAPPLY FOR PRTD FOR RECOSIDERATION AS I HAD NOT GIVEN FULL DETAILS AND EVIDENCES IN APPLYING FOR PRTD EARLIER. IS THIS ALLOWED AND WILL THEY RECONSIDER MY APPLICATION AGAIN
I am not aware of such a procedure. But I am NOT a Canadian lawyer.

What I do know is that if the visa office decision is not set aside, that terminates your PR status. I know you have a right of appeal and if you TIMELY make an appeal, that is a for sure procedure in which you can challenge the visa office decision, a chance to make the case to set aside the visa office decision and save your PR status.

Before relying on making an application (petition, request, motion, demand) to reconsider, best I can offer is to get the advice AND assistance of a qualified, reputable, reliable, and TRUSTED CANADIAN immigration lawyer.
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
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App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I AM PLANNING TO REAPPLY FOR PRTD FOR RECOSIDERATION AS I HAD NOT GIVEN FULL DETAILS AND EVIDENCES IN APPLYING FOR PRTD EARLIER. IS THIS ALLOWED AND WILL THEY RECONSIDER MY APPLICATION AGAIN
You only have 60 days to appeal the refusal of the PRTD, to the best of my knowledge.

If you want to try reapplying, no one can stop you from doing that. Similar to dpenabill above, I am not aware of such a process and IRCC may simply ignore the new application.

However you don't want to miss the appeal window. If you miss the appeal window, it's most likely game over.

You need to follow the rules / processes. You can't make stuff up and hope it works.

Good luck regardless what you decide to do.