PR Fraud and the IAD

[cosmo777]

Hi everyone,

Semi-related question here: I know someone who (along with their spouse) came to Canada on 3 year study permits. They did not end up going to university. Instead, one spouse switched their study permit to an open work permit while the other spouse dropped-out of school and did not attend for 1.5 years. In the meantime the spouse with the WP applied to a Prov. Nominee Program and received a certificate a few months later. It should be noted that this particular PN Program was not open to international students or the spouses of international students. Needless to say, this couple was very lucky to get a nomination and ultimately PR given the level of misrepresentation that occurred. Firstly: they lied about being students to get in to Canada and secondly: they lied to get their nomination.

If they get caught by CBSA what chance would they have on appeal to IAD to keep their PR status? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks

 

[zardoz]

Hi everyone,

Semi-related question here: I know someone who (along with their spouse) came to Canada on 3 year study permits. They did not end up going to university. Instead, one spouse switched their study permit to an open work permit while the other spouse dropped-out of school and did not attend for 1.5 years. In the meantime the spouse with the WP applied to a Prov. Nominee Program and received a certificate a few months later. It should be noted that this particular PN Program was not open to international students or the spouses of international students. Needless to say, this couple was very lucky to get a nomination and ultimately PR given the level of misrepresentation that occurred. Firstly: they lied about being students to get in to Canada and secondly: they lied to get their nomination.

If they get caught by CBSA what chance would they have on appeal to IAD to keep their PR status? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks

You can't just "switch" to an OWP. What type of OWP was it? While students who don't attend their designated educational institutions get reported now, they were less likely to have been a few years back. Did either of them actually go out of status or work illegally?

 

[Lammawitch]

You can't just "switch" to an OWP. What type of OWP was it? While students who don't attend their designated educational institutions get reported now, they were less likely to have been a few years back. Did either of them actually go out of status or work illegally?

In addition: if you are sure that you have all the correct facts, and are concerned about immigration fraud being committed, you can & should contact CIC and report it.

If not (& the story as you relate it sounds improbable, but you may not have all the correct details as a secondhand observer: I can think of a couple of scenarios where the situation might be perfectly legal*), you might be best not to get involved.

For example: are you sure they BOTH came on study permits? Or did spouse get an OWP because principal had a study permit? ...

 

[cosmo777]

They both definitely came to CDA as students (3 year SP) and one of them did switch to an OWP based on the other spouse's SP. I have absolutely no intention of "getting invoved" - I'm not even Canadian.

The info I presented is 100% factual.

 

[cosmo777]

Some more detail:

They came originally for a year to study english - when their first SP was about to expire they applied to University and received acceptance letters to do degree programs. They used the acceptance letters to renew their SP for 3 more years. After receipt of their new study permits one spouse applied for (and received) a 3 year open work permit connected to the other spouse's study permit.

The spouse with the SP then dropped out of school after the OWP was issued to their spouse. The working spouse then applied to a PNP program and got a nomination and later they landed as PR.

And voila...disingenuous students were given PR. And most interesting of all...the pnp stream they applied to isn't supposed to accept applications from the spouses of international students.

 

[dpenabill]

Observation:

Fraud has to do with misrepresentation. Not with whether this or that permit or status was properly issued.

Whether or not a misrepresentation made in obtaining earlier status continues, in effect, to affect the legitimacy of subsequent status, depends on the particular details and circumstances.

While this may largely be a matter of whether the declarations made in the earlier application process are included or subsumed in the subsequent application, it is probably more nuanced or complicated than that.

In any event, whether there was fraud committed is not based on someone getting status they should not have been given. It is based on whether or not the individual made a material misrepresentation of fact in the application.

Thus, for example, someone whose address history, in the application for PR status, does not disclose having lived in a conflict zone for a period of time, commits fraud in making a material misrepresentation by omission. If this misrepresentation is not discovered for decades, until the individual has long been a citizen, the misrepresentation nonetheless is grounds for revoking citizenship and deportation.

On the other hand, if someone applies for PR status and answers the questions in the application truthfully, and is granted status despite not really meeting the qualifications for that status, once a PR they are a PR. They still have to meet any conditions imposed for that particular grant of PR status (which in some circumstances might not be possible if the status was erroneously granted), but they should not be subject to inadmissibility proceedings for alleged fraud or misrepresentation.

As for the OP's scenario: it is rife with conclusions more than straight-forward facts. It is easy to confuse conclusions with facts. But whether a misrepresentation has been made is dependent on what specific facts were declared or in effect concealed.


Additionally: the failure to comply with Canadian immigration laws does not necessarily affect the validity of subsequent status. Overstays, for example, are of no import at all if no enforcement proceedings have been started and the individual is no longer out of status. Previously working in Canada without proper status is, in itself, of little import in later applications. These things may affect CIC's perception of the individual's credibility, but if resolved do not affect qualification for future status.

 

[cosmo777]

Great answer ...thanks.

In your opinion...would someone holding a study permit who doesn't attend school constitute fraud or misrepresentation?

And what about concealing the fact that they were students in order to make themselves eligible for a PNP stream - would that not constitute fraud as well?

Thanks again...

 

[ifeedly]

My two cents:
1) Nobody knows anything about anybody else in that detail.
2) If somebody needs info about a case that they are interested in and know intimate details then a lawyer is the best option as now the case has progressed beyond a normal guys expertise level.
3) The scenario described dosen't add-up.
4) Open work permits have to be renewed periodically and the status must be clarified at each renewal.
5) University charges fee every year and next years enrollment is confirmed after you pay next installment of fee.

 

[cosmo777]

1) yes, it is possible to know that people came to CDA on study permits and didn't study - and then received PR.
2) could you clarify why I should contact a lawyer?
3) yes, you're right...the case I presented doesn't add up - presumably because misrepresentation took place.
4) this OWP was granted for 3 years - more than enough time to apply to the PNP, receive a certificate, apply federally, and then land as PR.
5) the study permit holder in question never went to university after getting their 3 year permit (nor any other academic institution for that matter). Whether they paid a fee to the intended institution is beyond me.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this weird case.

 

[8Hannah8]

I actually don't think it's misrepresentation. They did not misrepresent the information, it seems that they just had wrongful intentions if any. A person who applied to school might had a mind change the day after his/her spouse received a work permit. The events might correlate, they might cause one another, but I don't think you have enough of evidence to support your claim. Not sure where immigration law stands on questions of cancelling a student status and spouse's work permit.

If PNP staff made a mistake on grating a nomination to a person who does not qualify for it, it is also not misrepresentation.

Plus, if you are familiar with PR application, you would notice there is personal history form and you have to submit education credentials + copy of marked pages in the passport. CIC could've found out that there is a student visa in place, but no education credentials from Canadian University. That would cause additional questions/investigations. Maybe work permit spouse sponsored the ex-student visa spouse to avoid extra questions, but it's highly unlikely.

 

[cosmo777]

Thanks Hannah - good answer.

I'm not interested in reporting these people to CIC. Am I disappointed that they found a way to circumvent the system.. .yes I am.

In my opinion they did commit fraud because I think they knowingly withheld material info when they applied to the PNP. I think they also misrepresented their intent to study in Canada in order to get in and to get a work permit.

Without that WP they could not have applied to the PNP.

 

[ifeedly]

Cosmo777:

Most of your queries in past are about the similar case. So easy to deduce that it is very close to your heart.
so if you are not interested in reporting these people to authorities what outcome are you looking for?
if you need to know if the thing in question is possible, legal and doable then talk to a lawyer because as I understand You are not in Canada (I may be wrong).
and to have that much interest in somebody else's matter simply mean either there is a feud or this is an exploratory discussion.
and if this is a feud and other party is aware of it then they are most probably not misrepresenting to CIC but feeding you wrong information.

Cheers

 

[Lammawitch]

Some more detail:

They came originally for a year to study english - when their first SP was about to expire they applied to University and received acceptance letters to do degree programs. They used the acceptance letters to renew their SP for 3 more years. After receipt of their new study permits one spouse applied for (and received) a 3 year open work permit connected to the other spouse's study permit.

The spouse with the SP then dropped out of school after the OWP was issued to their spouse. The working spouse then applied to a PNP program and got a nomination and later they landed as PR.

And voila...disingenuous students were given PR. And most interesting of all...the pnp stream they applied to isn't supposed to accept applications from the spouses of international students.

Which PNP would that be?

The spouse in question had an OWP. Which appears from your "information" to have been legally acquired. In which case, depending on the PNP in question, there are a numbers of ways s/he could have been eligible for PNP.

I can't see any misrepresentation or fraud from what you have posted. Did they "play" the system? Possibly, but apparently legally so. Whatever *you* "think" might have been their intentions is irrelevant.

I think you need to stop worrying about it!

 

[cosmo777]

So no one here is offended by the fact that these people came to Canada as students, didn't study, and were rewarded for it?

By the way, not attending an academic institution while in Canada on a study permit is most certainly fraud. You add the fact the other spouse was able to milk a work permit out of this situation just adds insult to injury.

And, CIC definitely cannot knowingly grant PR to someone who is in breach of IRPA at the time of landing - as these folks most certainly were.

As of June 1, 2014, all study permit holders in Canada will need to actively pursue studies. This means that:

-if you hold a study permit, you must remain enrolled and make reasonable and timely progress towards completing your program; and
-failing to do so could lead to your removal from Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/study-changes.asp

People have been denied PR for infractions that are much less significant (ie missing document, lower ESL score etc) - and,yes, maybe I'm one of those people.

These people may not get caught but I was just wondering about their options when it comes to IAD, if it comes to that.

 

[Lammawitch]

So no one here is offended by the fact that these people came to Canada as students, didn't study, and were rewarded for it?
Nothing in what you have said leads me to think that these people have done anything to "offend" me; & I don't even see that there's any proof they have acquired status through misrepresentation or fraud.

I'm only still commenting because I'm curious why YOU are so worked up about it. If it's so important to you, & you are so convinced that their PR is not legitimate, report it to CIC & move on with your life.

By the way, not attending an academic institution while in Canada on a study permit is most certainly fraud. You add the fact the other spouse was able to milk a work permit out of this situation just adds insult to injury.
Not necessarily. Regarding the spouse OWP: from the information you have given, it was legally obtained.

And, CIC most certainly cannot knowingly grant PR to someone who is in breach of IRPA at the time of landing - as these folks most certainly were.
Nothing you have mentioned shows that these people were in breach of IRPA. You may not like it, but you have not given any info to show fraud. I think you need to let this go

As of June 1, 2014, all study permit holders in Canada will need to actively pursue studies. This means that:

-if you hold a study permit, you must remain enrolled and make reasonable and timely progress towards completing your program; and
-failing to do so could lead to your removal from Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/study/study-changes.asp
COULD is the operative word in your quote above. It does not say "will".

In your scenario, as presented, the student who decided not to pursue his/her studies could have changed status to visitor, could have obtained a deferment from the educational institution, could have had any number of circumstances which led to him/her not studying but still being in status with CIC.

These people may not get caught but I was just wondering about their options when it comes to IAD, if it comes to that.

There is, on the basis of what you have shared, very likely absolutely nothing to "catch" them for

You have not answered the question about which PNP prohibited a spouse on an OWP from applying?