PR card renewal question

[taco123]

Hello Everyone.
Thanks in advance for replying to my query;

I got my PR card in april 2012 for the very first time and it will expire april 2017.
During those five years I will complete 2 years of residency in May 2017.
( break up= 4 months continuous in 2014 , 20 months continuous sept 2015 to may 2017)

I will apply for renewal of card after I complete 2 years in May.

But what I gather is that my case will definitely go to secondary review and take several months or a year.

My questions;

1. Will it be better if I apply for renewal in Sept 2017 when I complete 2 continuous years rather than May 2017 when I will have to explain huge gap in my 2 stays in Canada.

2. I wish to go back to my native India for a property deal. If I go right after I apply for renewal, will I be able to
return via land border without a valid PR card.(I have a US visitor visa.)

I am not banking on PR travel document from Canadian consulate in India as I have read that it may be refused .

thanks

 

[thecoolguysam]

The date you sign your application, you need to have spent 2 years out of 5 years whether continuous or split.
Its 730 days so I would suggest you to give extra buffer like 1 to 2 months and then apply for renewal for example after spending 790 days.
Although you can't prevent secondary review or delayed processing due to various reasons however, if you apply after spending more time with extra buffer, it may help.

You can fly to usa and come back to Canada by land however, remember, the date your enter Canada and if you have not met 2 years out of 5 years, you may get reported and your pr status would be at risk.

Can't your Indian property wait to sell off at later time?

 

[taco123]

The date you sign your application, you need to have spent 2 years out of 5 years whether continuous or split.
Its 730 days so I would suggest you to give extra buffer like 1 to 2 months and then apply for renewal for example after spending 790 days.
Although you can't prevent secondary review or delayed processing due to various reasons however, if you apply after spending more time with extra buffer, it may help.

You can fly to usa and come back to Canada by land however, remember, the date your enter Canada and if you have not met 2 years out of 5 years, you may get reported and your pr status would be at risk.

Can't your Indian property wait to sell off at later time?

Thanks for your reply. Actually, the property could wait a few months but if my card is going to take one year , then it is going to
be too late.
If I leave Canada after completing 730 days and after submitting my renewal application, could I still get reported
at land border while returning? How could I prove to the border guys that I completed 730 days?

 

[rish888]

Hey Taco 123.

Firstly you need to stay in Canada until at least May. Then you can apply for a PR card as you would have completed 730 days in the past 5 years, however be careful, because they will check the 730 days from May 2012 to May 2017, NOT April 2012 to May 2017. So just confirm your dates.

As far as proving you're in Canada, I would recommend asking your employer to write a letter telling you've been working for the company full time. This will suffice for the past 20 months. Maybe include a copy of your lease for your home/mortgage papers if you own it.

You can also give credit card statements etc.

For the 4 months a little while back, if you were staying in a hotel you could give a copy of your receipt. Additionally, while Canada doesn't have exit stamps, the country you arrived in when you left Canada after 4 months, I'm guessing India, does have entry stamps. So based on this they and you could calculate how long you've been in Canada.

As a rule of thumb do try to keep a little buffer when applying for renewal, as long as you have a variety of evidence to prove your stay, ideally at least 2 pieces from different sources, you should be fine.

In case you must leave Canada while the card is being processed, yes you can enter Canada via a US land border crossing.

You can do this with only your expired PR card. Crossing the border may take a few more minutes than usual, however just explain to the officer that your card is under renewal (maybe keep a copy of renewal papers with you) and you needed to travel. Also confirm you have met your residency obligation.

Worst case they make ask you to go to secondary, however ultimately you will be let in as you have a legal right to enter.

Hope this helps.

 

[rish888]

Taco 123,

As you have met your residency obligation, traveling via a land border with your expired PR card would be a whole lot easier, quicker, and probably save you some money in comparison to applying for a PR TD, allow me to offer some clarification below,

Applying for a PR TD is not applying for a visa. They officer cannot deicide if they want to issue it, they NEED to issue it.

As a PR, especially one in compliance with his RO, you have an unconditional right to enter and exist Canada as you please (keeping in compliance with your RO) For an officer to deny you a PR TD would be akin to an officer denying a Canadian Citizen in India a passport to travel back to Canada. (Like if he lost it or something.)

PR TD denials happen when people have not met their RO, apply for a PR TD which triggers a RO compliance check, and then are denied it under Section A28 of the IRPA. These situations are very frequent in India given the high number of people that return, thus the high number of denials.

The above situation however, does not apply to you.

Cases of rejection only happen in cases of PR's not meeting their Residency Obligation, this is not your case.

 

[rish888]

Taco 123,

You did 4 months in 2014. You then did 20 months which you will complete this May.

Consequently, on any date BEFORE 2019 on the date on which you began your 4 months, you would have met your 730 day obligation.

In layman's terms, come back any day during 2018 and you are issue free. You will be issued a PR TD if you elect to do so. You will be allowed entry into Canada via land if that is the route you choose.

You will not be reported by anyone or run into trouble (though maybe some inconvenience at the crossing) as you have been in compliance with your RO.

 

[Rob_TO]

Applying for a PR TD is not applying for a visa. They officer cannot deicide if they want to issue it, they NEED to issue it.

As a PR, especially one in compliance with his RO, you have an unconditional right to enter and exist Canada as you please (keeping in compliance with your RO) For an officer to deny you a PR TD would be akin to an officer denying a Canadian Citizen in India a passport to travel back to Canada. (Like if he lost it or something.)

Not quite. The burden of proof is on the applicant to prove they have met the RO. Someone who is applying for a PR TD who meets the RO by just a couple of days, yet doesn't submit satisfactory evidence to prove it or has some of their days questioned, may have their PR TD denied. They would then need to appeal to keep their PR status.

Similarly someone entering Canada at a land border in same situation, may still be reported by CBSA and need to go through appeals.

This is why it's so important to always have a good buffer of days (or preferably months) over the RO before applying for anything. Just in case IRCC/CBSA questions some of your days, you would still have enough to qualify without them.

 

[rish888]

As a rule of thumb do try to keep a little buffer when applying for renewal, as long as you have a variety of evidence to prove your stay, ideally at least 2 pieces from different sources, you should be fine.

Absolutely, buffers should be kept. However assuming he's otherwise in compliance with his RO and has a sufficient buffer a PR TD should not be an issue for him.

 

[taco123]

Thanks Rish 888 for your replies. And also Rob_To.

About PRTD's risks;

Recently there was a press covered case of a Russian woman who was stripped of her PR by
the Canadian consulate in Russia when she applied for a PRTD. She had spent 5 years in Canada but they said their records showed
she spent less than 2 years. Due to media coverage and her protests with legit evidence of her stay she had luckily saved, her case was reviewed. And she was eventually granted PRTD.

About the land border crossing option;
There is this issue of what will I say to the US customs when entering on my visitor visa. If I tell them
I am crossing over to Canada, they will want to see my valid Canada PR card which I won't have.

 

[rish888]

Taco 123,

When you land in the US just tell them the purpose of visit is tourism. Maybe have a hotel booking for a day or something.

Indians are low-risk traveller as such you won't have an issue entering the U.S.

When you arrive at the land border, you don't have exit checks on the U.S side, you just directly arrive at the Canadian border.

How you exit the U.S. is up to you, but on the form your purpose of visit should be tourism, NOT transit. However, when asked how long you intend to stay, answer the CBP officer truthfully, tell him you only plan on staying a few days. If asked why you don't have a return ticket, answer truthfully and say you're not sure the day on which you'll leave.

Do not lie to CBP. If discovered, you don't have the same rights you would at the Canadian point of entry, you will be returned to India and have you're visa canceled. However, generally at busy airports such as JFK etc American customs does not tend to be an issue.

 

[rish888]

I do agree with you on the PR TD, right now I'm in a similar, though not as clear cut situation.

I was just generally advising you of your rights and how it works, however, my personal advice for you if the enter Canada via land border.

Also carry a copy of your PR renewal forms with you, as such when you present your expired PR card the officer will most likely understand the reason behind it.

 

[thecoolguysam]

Thanks for your reply. Actually, the property could wait a few months but if my card is going to take one year , then it is going to
be too late.
If I leave Canada after completing 730 days and after submitting my renewal application, could I still get reported
at land border while returning? How could I prove to the border guys that I completed 730 days?

Why are you thinking that the card will take more than 1 year? Apply with some extra buffer and as long you have exceeded the minimum required days (730 days) you should be fine. Apply with 760 or 790 days buffer. I don't recommend apply just exactly after 730 days as it may trigger secondary review or delayed processing.

 

[taco123]

Why are you thinking that the card will take more than 1 year? Apply with some extra buffer and as long you have exceeded the minimum required days (730 days) you should be fine. Apply with 760 or 790 days buffer. I don't recommend apply just exactly after 730 days as it may trigger secondary review or delayed processing.

So many cases on this forum that took several months to one year in secondary review.

 

[thecoolguysam]

So many cases on this forum that took several months to one year in secondary review.

Every application is different, don't assume that it will take several months or secondary review. As long as you satisfy the residency obligations with extra buffer, you should not have any issues. Now it's up to you how you would like to proceed. Again, it's up to cic if they process it quickly or the application gets delayed due to xyz reason.

 

[taco123]

Every application is different, don't assume that it will take several months or secondary review. As long as you satisfy the residency obligations with extra buffer, you should not have any issues. Now it's up to you how you would like to proceed. Again, it's up to cic if they process it quickly or the application gets delayed due to xyz reason.

Thanks . What I gather from posts here is that cases with 2-3 years absence in the 5 yr period are very likely sent
to secondary . I fall in the same category.