PR card renewal - Help needed in filling out the form

[Ace2000]

Hi,
I will be applying with my family for PR card renewal soon, we have almost completed the residency obligation (730 days out of 5 years) in Canada and needs to travel soon.
While filling out the form under' Travel History', it says "list all your Absences" since you become a PR (last five years) and there are columns FROM and TO. My question is 'should we enter the date we departed and returned Canada? say departed 25th July and returned 10th August OR the absence dates 26th July and 9th August (as the day you depart and return counts inside Canada). It will make a difference in the 'Number of days" column and i don't want to take a risk in filling it wrong as we will be few days up the residency obligation at the day of applying.
Please advise,
Thank you !

 

[scylla]

Hi,
I will be applying with my family for PR card renewal soon, we have almost completed the residency obligation (730 days out of 5 years) in Canada and needs to travel soon.
While filling out the form under' Travel History', it says "list all your Absences" since you become a PR (last five years) and there are columns FROM and TO. My question is 'should we enter the date we departed and returned Canada? say departed 25th July and returned 10th August OR the absence dates 26th July and 9th August (as the day you depart and return counts inside Canada). It will make a difference in the 'Number of days" column and i don't want to take a risk in filling it wrong as we will be few days up the residency obligation at the day of applying.
Please advise,
Thank you !

You should enter the date you left and returned to Canada.

Recommend you apply with a few extra weeks of buffer in case any of your dates are wrong. You should also be aware that if you apply with just a bit over 730 days, your application has a higher chance of going to secondary review and taking significantly longer to process.

 

[Ace2000]

Thank you so much Scylla, for your reply and advice.
My issue is that if I wait a few more weeks to apply than i may be out of the 5 year bracket (I stayed for 8 weeks initially and then was out for 2 1/2 years but since coming back has not left and need to travel soon as Kids School will be closed and that is the time I can only travel and if I apply late, I may not be able to travel.
One last question:
In the same Travel History Section: "Period to be assessed" should be 'FROM' (date) the day I landed 'TO' the date I sign the application"? Is this right ? (it will be a bit less than 5 year period but I will complete 730 days about 2-3 weeks before completing 5 years)
Thank you for your help.
Regards

 

[dpenabill]

My question is 'should we enter the date we departed and returned Canada? say departed 25th July and returned 10th August OR the absence dates 26th July and 9th August (as the day you depart and return counts inside Canada). It will make a difference in the 'Number of days" column

My issue is that if I wait a few more weeks to apply than i may be out of the 5 year bracket (I stayed for 8 weeks initially and then was out for 2 1/2 years but since coming back has not left and need to travel soon as Kids School will be closed and that is the time I can only travel and if I apply late, I may not be able to travel.
One last question:
In the same Travel History Section: "Period to be assessed" should be 'FROM' (date) the day I landed 'TO' the date I sign the application"? Is this right ? (it will be a bit less than 5 year period but I will complete 730 days about 2-3 weeks before completing 5 years)

The part of this that is of concern is this:

My issue is that if I wait a few more weeks to apply than i may be out of the 5 year bracket (I stayed for 8 weeks initially and then was out for 2 1/2 years but since coming back has not left and need to travel soon as Kids School will be closed and that is the time I can only travel and if I apply late, I may not be able to travel.​

CAUTION: Even if you meet the PR Residency Obligation as of the day you make the PR card application, and are in fact issued a new PR card, you must still meet the obligation to be present in Canada 730 days within the preceding five years EVERY DAY going forward. Thus, for example, if you travel outside Canada and on the day you return to Canada you have NOT been in Canada at least 730 days within the five years prior to that specific day, you would be in breach of the RO and at RISK for being reported. Even if you have a nearly brand new PR card in hand.

Once you reach the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed, EVERY DAY after that the RO calculation is based on the five years preceding that specific day.

Additionally, even if you meet the PR RO as of the day you make the PR card application, if you are cutting-it-close (appears you are, very close), there are some significant RISKS to consider, including a risk the application is referred for Secondary Review; this can take months longer than the routine processing period; for more than a few it has taken up to a year or more. Thing is, if you travel abroad and need a PR Travel Document to return to Canada, cutting-it-close risks being denied.

Even if you meet the PR RO as of the day you make the PR card application, if you travel outside Canad in the meantime AND then those days during the first 8 weeks begin to fall out of the calculation (as they become more than five years past, that is, once you pass the fifth year anniversary of the day of landing), you risk having the PR card application denied. If you are called for an interview, you need to have been present in Canada at least 730 days within the five years immediately preceding the date of that interview (not just as of the date the application was made).

All this said, this does NOT mean you will in fact encounter such enforcement. There are many factors which influence how much risk there is . . . how much risk there is that an agent or officer will conduct a strict calculation of RO compliance . . . and even if that happens, how much risk there is that such an examination could have a negative outcome. Some factors are obvious: more days above 730 within the previous five years, the better; more days short of 730 within five years, the bigger the risks.

You may want to revisit the arithmetic carefully and reconsider travel plans.

 

[Ace2000]

The part of this that is of concern is this:

My issue is that if I wait a few more weeks to apply than i may be out of the 5 year bracket (I stayed for 8 weeks initially and then was out for 2 1/2 years but since coming back has not left and need to travel soon as Kids School will be closed and that is the time I can only travel and if I apply late, I may not be able to travel.​

CAUTION: Even if you meet the PR Residency Obligation as of the day you make the PR card application, and are in fact issued a new PR card, you must still meet the obligation to be present in Canada 730 days within the preceding five years EVERY DAY going forward. Thus, for example, if you travel outside Canada and on the day you return to Canada you have NOT been in Canada at least 730 days within the five years prior to that specific day, you would be in breach of the RO and at RISK for being reported. Even if you have a nearly brand new PR card in hand.

Once you reach the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed, EVERY DAY after that the RO calculation is based on the five years preceding that specific day.

Additionally, even if you meet the PR RO as of the day you make the PR card application, if you are cutting-it-close (appears you are, very close), there are some significant RISKS to consider, including a risk the application is referred for Secondary Review; this can take months longer than the routine processing period; for more than a few it has taken up to a year or more. Thing is, if you travel abroad and need a PR Travel Document to return to Canada, cutting-it-close risks being denied.

Even if you meet the PR RO as of the day you make the PR card application, if you travel outside Canad in the meantime AND then those days during the first 8 weeks begin to fall out of the calculation (as they become more than five years past, that is, once you pass the fifth year anniversary of the day of landing), you risk having the PR card application denied. If you are called for an interview, you need to have been present in Canada at least 730 days within the five years immediately preceding the date of that interview (not just as of the date the application was made).

All this said, this does NOT mean you will in fact encounter such enforcement. There are many factors which influence how much risk there is . . . how much risk there is that an agent or officer will conduct a strict calculation of RO compliance . . . and even if that happens, how much risk there is that such an examination could have a negative outcome. Some factors are obvious: more days above 730 within the previous five years, the better; more days short of 730 within five years, the bigger the risks.

You may want to revisit the arithmetic carefully and reconsider travel plans.

 

[Ace2000]

Thank you so much dpenabill !
I surely missed this technical point...but thanks to you – I have a better understanding of RO ..need to change my plans now.
(I will complete my 730 days on 26th April and my five years of landing will be completed on May 22. In order to count the the days (8 weeks) of my initial landing I have to apply before May 22)

 

[Dalboy1980]

Thank you so much dpenabill !
I surely missed this technical point...but thanks to you – I have a better understanding of RO ..need to change my plans now.
(I will complete my 730 days on 26th April and my five years of landing will be completed on May 22. In order to count the the days (8 weeks) of my initial landing I have to apply before May 22)

I left it additional 6 months after completing my 2 years on coming back from the UK, I then submitted as many relevant documents as possible and thankfully everything went through ok....good luck!

 

[Ace2000]

Hi,
Can you please also advise:
1. Since i will be fulfilling my RO at the time of applying for PR renewal in late May 2019 and my old card is still valid for 6 more weeks (mid July) after I apply. Can I travel outside Canada after applying for PR renewal ? (as one have to be in Canada at the time of applying). Upon recalculating my days inside Canada on my return date to Canada, I will still be fulfilling RO (present more than 730 days in the immediate 5 years).. Is it ok to travel on the old card with 6 weeks validity?
2. Do I have to attach any other relevant documents while applying for renewal except the ones mentioned in the document checklist ?
Thank you !

 

[Ace2000]

Hi,
Can you please also advise:
1. Since i will be fulfilling my RO at the time of applying for PR renewal in late May 2019 and my old card is still valid for 6 more weeks (mid July) after I apply. Can I travel outside Canada after applying for PR renewal ? (as one have to be in Canada at the time of applying). Upon recalculating my days inside Canada on my return date to Canada, I will still be fulfilling RO (present more than 730 days in the immediate 5 years).. Is it ok to travel on the old card with 6 weeks validity?
2. Do I have to attach any other relevant documents while applying for renewal except the ones mentioned in the document checklist ?
Thank you !

Hi Scylla, dpenabill or anyone, can you please reply to my above query.. I ll be very grateful.
Thank you !

 

[dpenabill]

2. Do I have to attach any other relevant documents while applying for renewal except the ones mentioned in the document checklist ?

FOLLOW the instructions in the guide and the checklist. IRCC may want more but if so they will make a request. There is no indication that such requests can be anticipated and avoided by including additional documents with the application.

Can you please also advise:
1. Since i will be fulfilling my RO at the time of applying for PR renewal in late May 2019 and my old card is still valid for 6 more weeks (mid July) after I apply. Can I travel outside Canada after applying for PR renewal ? (as one have to be in Canada at the time of applying). Upon recalculating my days inside Canada on my return date to Canada, I will still be fulfilling RO (present more than 730 days in the immediate 5 years).. Is it ok to travel on the old card with 6 weeks validity?

Canada does NOT restrict a PR's travel abroad. Period.

The only international travel provision Canada imposes on PRs is that in order to board a flight to Canada a PR needs to present to the airline either a valid PR card or a valid PR Travel Document. That is it. And, alternatively, if a PR can find private transportation to a Canadian PoE, a PR MUST be allowed to enter Canada.

But sure, I realize you are not really asking if you can travel abroad. You are asking whether you will run into problems, or will risk running into problems, given your circumstances.

Previous posts outline enough about the rules and how they might be applied for YOU to mostly understand how things work and what risks you are taking, and make YOUR own best judgment given YOUR understanding of your situation.

No one here can exercise that personal judgment for you. At least NOT reliably.

My previous post alone should have made it clear enough that there is no such thing as "fulfilling RO" since the RO is a ongoing obligation. Here too, I get it that you probably mean that you would still be in compliance with the Residency Obligation by having been present in Canada at least 730 days within the relevant five year time period. And as long as the responsible official engaging in an examination of your RO compliance AGREES with your accounting of days in Canada, and your accounting is that you have been present 730 plus days in the relevant five years, that's good. BUT when you have been, as I oft refer to it, cutting-it-close, and OUTSIDE Canada a lot more than in Canada, there are RISKS. How big the risk is that the responsible official will not be persuaded, that is very, very difficult to forecast. DEPENDS. VARIES.


In any event:

-- a PR can travel internationally while a PR card application is pending
-- a PR can continue to use a PR card as long as it is valid and not yet replaced
-- a PR in compliance with the PR RO generally has little reason to worry about PoE examinations, but the more the PR is cutting-it-close and the longer abroad, the more there is some risk CBSA or IRCC could have doubt about the PR's counting
-- similarly for a PR with a PR card application in process: a PR in compliance with the PR RO generally has little reason to worry about the ultimate outcome of the PRC application, except that it might take longer than the routine timeline, but the more the PR is cutting-it-close and the more the PR is abroad while the application is pending, the more there are risks officials will have doubts about the PR's counting​

How close you cut it, that is for you to decide.