Police certificate waiver denied scared to request from dangerous country....(PR, Inland spousal)

[Scareddissident]

Hello. To protect myself I do not want to mention which country I am from.
But I will tell you they are not friends with Canada, not a diplomatically friendly country and are very weary about providing any sort of document to any western government, as they might think I am a spy, refugee or applying for citizenship, which is illegal to do in my countries law and can result in the death penalty and my family being jailed.

I am married to a Canadian.
I applied inland for PR
I got accepted in principal and am at the final steps of the process

The officer emailed me asking for two things
Pay the $500 fee
A police certificate from my country.
I have 30 days to respond.

I responded, by paying the $500 fee, and then explaining that when I applied I originally requested a waiver for the police certificate because I fear its dangerous to ask my country for this kind of thing. I have been living in Canada for a very very long time (Between 9-15 years I dont want to confirm how long) and never returned to my home country. I already provided Canadian criminal record paper.

I wrote a letter stating again why I am asking for waiver, and then I got a response again, with same info asking for the Police report within 30 days and then in brackets (your request for the waver has been denied)

......
What should I do....
Like I said my country is not like western countries. Not democratic and certainly do not assist in any type of diplomatic relation...
Any advice is welcome...

 

[armoured]

The officer emailed me asking for two things
Pay the $500 fee
A police certificate from my country.
I have 30 days to respond.

I responded, by paying the $500 fee, and then explaining that when I applied I originally requested a waiver for the police certificate because I fear its dangerous to ask my country for this kind of thing. I have been living in Canada for a very very long time (Between 9-15 years I dont want to confirm how long) and never returned to my home country. I already provided Canadian criminal record paper.

It is quite difficult to suggest how to proceed without knowing the country or the danger you allude to - to yourself, or your family still in the country, or is the fear about what may happen if you need to return (in which case a not-crazy response is, 'well, don't go back'). Or is the fear that they won't provide such a document at all (in which case applying and showing the application and/or refusal might help)?

The other thing that you must keep in mind is that Canada accepts lots of immigrants from 'unfriendly' countries whose authorities routinely provide police reports with no particular issues. Eg Iran is not friendly with Canada but there are lots of immigrants from Iran. In such cases, IRCC might (logically from their perspective) take the position, well, what's different about your circumstances? (I'm not saying that your circumstances are not meaningfully different, but unless it's spelled out specifically, how would they know?) Also keep in mind - it's possible the officer who requested these docs just isn't that aware of particular issues with Country X - depends how unusual or rare the case is. A low-level officer in Ottawa may not be aware of issues with eg Myanmar and somehow they didn't consult with officers in [whatever Cdn Embassy deals with Myanmar - Bangkok?.] The range of possible issues and knowledge of what's done or is possible is (for IRCC) complex and for very rare cases, sometimes they just don't know.

Also keep in mind: refugee/protected persons etc are separate tracks that exist specifically for such cases. You are applying via spousal sponsorship, and that may be the mindset within IRCC, that the exceptions that (may) exist for refugee cases eg for persecution - that they are only routinely accepted for those under the refugee 'streams.'

So, since it's hard to say without details (which I'm not asking for as sensitive): if you can, apply anyway for the police report and show at least that you have applied for one; if you can't (for reasons that I don't know), you could/should at minimum contact your MP and/or a lawyer to help make the case specifically as to how to proceed given your personal circumstances (and whatever dangers you perceive).

One small technical warning: the wording 'waiver' may have a particular administrative/legal/bureaucratic meaning that I would not know. It may be best to avoid asking for a 'waiver' (because they can't grant for some reason I'm not aware of), or to speak to a lawyer about the 'waiver.' You can still ask for the same thing (effectively) - "I can't provide because XXX" - and perhaps there is a different term or phrasing that is acceptable - I don't know.

I hope this helps in terms of understanding the mindset from the other side - i.e. if they deal with thousands of applicants from [Country X] a year and 99.9% provide police certificates, they likely will NOT accept a general 'I'm afraid to ask for one' without VERY strong reasons as to why; to the extent they do accept, it may have to be on the basis of very specific case information that you would not want to share publicly.

[Just as a general background, think - for example - of Iran or some other country vs North Korea - North Korea is a very different case with far less direct immigration (I think almost all who would come to Canada from NK would come through South Korea or possibly China, and numbers are low even for SK), even though no-one would characterize relations with either of them as good.]

 

[esam99]

whats ur status in canada for the last decade?

 

[scylla]

Hello. To protect myself I do not want to mention which country I am from.
But I will tell you they are not friends with Canada, not a diplomatically friendly country and are very weary about providing any sort of document to any western government, as they might think I am a spy, refugee or applying for citizenship, which is illegal to do in my countries law and can result in the death penalty and my family being jailed.

I am married to a Canadian.
I applied inland for PR
I got accepted in principal and am at the final steps of the process

The officer emailed me asking for two things
Pay the $500 fee
A police certificate from my country.
I have 30 days to respond.

I responded, by paying the $500 fee, and then explaining that when I applied I originally requested a waiver for the police certificate because I fear its dangerous to ask my country for this kind of thing. I have been living in Canada for a very very long time (Between 9-15 years I dont want to confirm how long) and never returned to my home country. I already provided Canadian criminal record paper.

I wrote a letter stating again why I am asking for waiver, and then I got a response again, with same info asking for the Police report within 30 days and then in brackets (your request for the waver has been denied)

......
What should I do....
Like I said my country is not like western countries. Not democratic and certainly do not assist in any type of diplomatic relation...
Any advice is welcome...

IRCC has not granted the waiver which is why they are requesting this document again.

What have you done to try to obtain the PCC from that country? I don't think it's simply enough to request the waiver. You have to demonstrate what you have done to try to obtain the PCC and show evidence those efforts have failed.

My husband managed to get his spousal sponsorship application approved with a missing PCC. We provided a letter explaining why the PCC could not be obtained. However we also provided evidence of our failed attempts to obtain the PCC. This included following the PCC application instructions on the IRCC website for that country, contacting the Canadian embassy / consulate in the region for assistance (also the U.S. embassy / consulate since my husband is American) and contacting the embassy / consulate for that country in Canada for assistance. We had a number of emails that we provided to IRCC that showed our attempts to obtain the PCC and the responses from officials saying this wasn't possible. We also provided a printout from an official US government website which stated that obtaining a PCC from this country for the period when my husband lived there was not possible. That's how we got an exemption for the PCC.

 

[Scareddissident]

To answer the questions:

I came to Canada with a status and I maintained the status for 90% of my time in Canada. Before I got married the status was cut because I didn’t renew my visa on time, and went straight into the application for PR. I’ve restored my status as a open work permit now

the reason I didn’t want to ask my country is because
1. 99% of time they will deny such a request. Even for stuff to help me as a citizen they are not helpful if you live abroad, and especially in Canada. They will think I’m becoming refugee. They will demand to know why.
2. 99% chance they will suspect I’m becoming a refugee or spy or citizen of Canada. I have been out of my country for so long, and there’s good times where I have contacted the embassy regarding something to do with my personal affairs in my country, they wanted me to return to my country in order to take care of these affairs and when I said I was not able to, they questioned why I would not leave Canada. I don’t want my family to get in trouble and I don’t want to put myself in a dangerous situation either. If they couldn’t put me in jail then they would try to put my family in jail.

I explained that to the representative but he quickly denied my request for a waiver. I was a little bit angry and I responded that just to be clear the Canadian government is asking me to put myself in a dangerous situation that could possibly get me killed if I return to my country or my family put in jail? Well since I love my wife I have no choice but to ask...

I don’t even know what to say to them. I’m so scared.

 

[armoured]

I repeat largely what above (and agree with scylla): you'll likely have to show evidence that you have applied to get a PCC, or a refusal from eg the Embassy, very strong evidence that they cannot be obtained from abroad, or the particular circumstances that you cannot get (because of risk to your family). It's possible the Canadian embassy in the country might be able to help but not easy to find the right person. If US government or other governments publish 'travel advisories' or consular bulletins or other similar on these issues, that may be helpful as at least some kind of evidence of the issues you face.

That does not mean that the Canadian government is requiring you to put yourself at risk by returning to your country. Keep in mind though that any call centre agent you speak to is not likely to have deep knowledge of the country risks; if one says you need to go to the country to get it, they likely just do not know the situation (and won't help to get angry at them, even if I understand your frustration).

Try through your MP's office. Be patient, the average staffer at an MP's office may not know a lot either, it will take some time on your part to get through. If there is an MP who is knowledgeable or interested in the region (that you know of), they might also be of help - i.e. if your local MP does not know as much.

Consider engaging a lawyer.

 

[Scareddissident]

I repeat largely what above (and agree with scylla): you'll likely have to show evidence that you have applied to get a PCC, or a refusal from eg the Embassy, very strong evidence that they cannot be obtained from abroad, or the particular circumstances that you cannot get (because of risk to your family). It's possible the Canadian embassy in the country might be able to help but not easy to find the right person. If US government or other governments publish 'travel advisories' or consular bulletins or other similar on these issues, that may be helpful as at least some kind of evidence of the issues you face.

That does not mean that the Canadian government is requiring you to put yourself at risk by returning to your country. Keep in mind though that any call centre agent you speak to is not likely to have deep knowledge of the country risks; if one says you need to go to the country to get it, they likely just do not know the situation (and won't help to get angry at them, even if I understand your frustration).

Try through your MP's office. Be patient, the average staffer at an MP's office may not know a lot either, it will take some time on your part to get through. If there is an MP who is knowledgeable or interested in the region (that you know of), they might also be of help - i.e. if your local MP does not know as much.

Consider engaging a lawyer.

The country does not have a Canadian embassy anymore because they are not having diplomatic relations.

I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
They might ask me to return to my country and if I don’t return, or don’t go into the embassy, then they might suspect that I’m a spy. I can’t return to my country. It’s just not possible because of my situation

to be honest though I’m almost pretty sure that everybody in the world knows about how dangerous my country is. Especially people in the Canadian government....

 

[scylla]

The country does not have a Canadian embassy anymore because they are not having diplomatic relations.

I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
They might ask me to return to my country and if I don’t return, or don’t go into the embassy, then they might suspect that I’m a spy. I can’t return to my country. It’s just not possible because of my situation

to be honest though I’m almost pretty sure that everybody in the world knows about how dangerous my country is. Especially people in the Canadian government....

I think you need to think creatively about how you provide evidence of the dangers involved in requesting a PCC. Have you looked on the web and been able to find any government websites that refer to your situation? Doesn't have to be Canadian government. Could the U.S. (probably a good one to search on), UK, etc. Is there persecution of you / your family in your home country that you can demonstrate through something like newspaper articles or police reports or anything like that? You'll need to think creatively about how to prove / demonstrate the risk with evidence.

At this point if you don't see any path forward in providing some sort of evidence to re-request the waiver, you should hire a very experienced Canadian immigration lawyer to help you with next steps.

 

[armoured]

The country does not have a Canadian embassy anymore because they are not having diplomatic relations.

I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
They might ask me to return to my country and if I don’t return, or don’t go into the embassy, then they might suspect that I’m a spy. I can’t return to my country. It’s just not possible because of my situation

to be honest though I’m almost pretty sure that everybody in the world knows about how dangerous my country is. Especially people in the Canadian government....

I can make some guesses about which country and I'm very sympathetic - but I very much agree with scylla, you will have to do some research to provide information to support the specifics of your case. I repeat: contact your MP's office and ask for assistance. It will take some patience on your part: unfortunately 'everybody in the world knows' often does not apply. If you are not comfortable with your spouse at putting together the info you need to show why even applying for a PCC is a problem, you may need extra help - whether a lawyer, or the various refugee or expatriate support groups that are around.

Even making a guess about which country, the issue you will run into is a fairly large number of immigrants from that country are in Canada and travel, and get PCCs when needed, so you will need also to show what is specific to your situation (which you referred to as 'dissident' and of course I don't know details but at some point you will need to share specific circumstances with those who can attempt to help).

Good luck.

 

[Scareddissident]

So I went ahead and messaged my country regarding this issue. Its basically a no go on the forum. No way to do it within Canada. I would have to go to my country, they did not say that directly but they said something that implies I need to go to my country. I asked them if they could give me a litter saying that they can't give it and I got no response after this.

 

[esam99]

The country does not have a Canadian embassy anymore because they are not having diplomatic relations.

I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
I don’t have a problem with them really refusing me to give me this paper, the problem is more asking because if they start to suspect anything then I’m going to be in trouble and there’s nothing that I could do to stop the trouble.
They might ask me to return to my country and if I don’t return, or don’t go into the embassy, then they might suspect that I’m a spy. I can’t return to my country. It’s just not possible because of my situation

to be honest though I’m almost pretty sure that everybody in the world knows about how dangerous my country is. Especially people in the Canadian government....

is it north korea?? iran??
ur making us curious man

 

[Crazywire]

To answer the questions:

I came to Canada with a status and I maintained the status for 90% of my time in Canada. Before I got married the status was cut because I didn’t renew my visa on time, and went straight into the application for PR. I’ve restored my status as a open work permit now

the reason I didn’t want to ask my country is because
1. 99% of time they will deny such a request. Even for stuff to help me as a citizen they are not helpful if you live abroad, and especially in Canada. They will think I’m becoming refugee. They will demand to know why.
2. 99% chance they will suspect I’m becoming a refugee or spy or citizen of Canada. I have been out of my country for so long, and there’s good times where I have contacted the embassy regarding something to do with my personal affairs in my country, they wanted me to return to my country in order to take care of these affairs and when I said I was not able to, they questioned why I would not leave Canada. I don’t want my family to get in trouble and I don’t want to put myself in a dangerous situation either. If they couldn’t put me in jail then they would try to put my family in jail.

I explained that to the representative but he quickly denied my request for a waiver. I was a little bit angry and I responded that just to be clear the Canadian government is asking me to put myself in a dangerous situation that could possibly get me killed if I return to my country or my family put in jail? Well since I love my wife I have no choice but to ask...

I don’t even know what to say to them. I’m so scared.

I had similar problem. My wife is Somali living in Kenya and currently relations between Somalia and Kenya are not good. We needed police certificate from Kenya before we sent our application however, the Kenyan CID told us they don't give police clearance to Somali passport holders.

From the sponsorship guidelines, There is this loophole we used, it might solve your predicament. Let IRCC request police certificate.

Note: Some countries need a consent form, Request for Police Certificates/Clearances and Authorization for Release of Information (PDF, 58.59 KB), from IRCC to issue a police certificate. Find out if the country from which you need a police certificate requires a consent form. If required, you should submit the consent form to us in place of the police certificate. We’ll assess the consent form and start the police certificate request.

 

[Scareddissident]

I had similar problem. My wife is Somali living in Kenya and currently relations between Somalia and Kenya are not good. We needed police certificate from Kenya before we sent our application however, the Kenyan CID told us they don't give police clearance to Somali passport holders.

From the sponsorship guidelines, There is this loophole we used, it might solve your predicament. Let IRCC request police certificate.

OH my god if I asked the IRCC to do this for me 100% my family will be locked in jail!!!
I can not do that! I can not even say this police certificate is for the Canadian government , 100% no way impossible this would be so bad!

 

[Naheulbeuck]

If it is the country I think of, you can contact the Swedish Ambassy, they probably could provide you with some document that shows it is not safe/possible for you to get the PCC from your country.

If it is another country, there is most likely some other ambassy that could be contacted as well.

 

[armoured]

If it is the country I think of, you can contact the Swedish Ambassy, they probably could provide you with some document that shows it is not safe/possible for you to get the PCC from your country.

If it is another country, there is most likely some other ambassy that could be contacted as well.

I doubt that is the case as Sweden represents Canada in North Korea (so I assume that's what you're thinking of) - and virtually all North Koreans would get South Korean passports by right. I can think of a couple other countries it might apply to.

Anyway, I repeat my previous suggestion: contact MP or rights groups. If there are groups for this country in Canada (of other expatriates), ask others how they dealt with it. Collect info on the suggestions of @scylla and others.

The communications with the home country may be helpful in making the case.