Police Certificate for Non-Accompanying family members

[c.varo16]

Hi everyone! I am applying for PR through spousal sponsorship, outland. My husband and I are interpreting a section of the PR application differently.

In regard to the police certificate (I live in California, USA), it says that all non-accompanying family members over the age of 18 must get a police certificate.

Since I don't have any dependents, he thinks that this would include my parents and two younger siblings (both over 18).

I on the other hand do not think they are classified as the "non-accompanying family members"

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but just thought I'd look for a little clarification.

Thank you!

 

[Pontianak]

I'm the principal applicant for outland like you. I also interpreted it as meaning my parents and brother needed police certificates even though they weren't applying. I've heard it said both ways, yes you include them, no you don't. We played it safe and got the police certificates for them anyway, and just explained in the cover letter that we interpreted that they were asking for it but neither my parents or brother are applying for PR and to disregard the police certificates for them if they weren't required. At this point I'm approved, and just waiting for them to mail my COPR to me. Take that however you will... we just played it safe and included it because if they were required and we didn't include them, well it would have just delayed everything.

 

[c.varo16]

I'm the principal applicant for outland like you. I also interpreted it as meaning my parents and brother needed police certificates even though they weren't applying. I've heard it said both ways, yes you include them, no you don't. We played it safe and got the police certificates for them anyway, and just explained in the cover letter that we interpreted that they were asking for it but neither my parents or brother are applying for PR and to disregard the police certificates for them if they weren't required. At this point I'm approved, and just waiting for them to mail my COPR to me. Take that however you will... we just played it safe and included it because if they were required and we didn't include them, well it would have just delayed everything.

Thank you Pontianak! My husband is sort of leaning the direction as well. Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to receive the police certificates in the mail after you sent in the forms to the FBI? And did you just mail the unopened letters / results to CIC?

Also, I read also that all family members (even if they are not applying to come to Canada with you) will need medical exams as well? The definition key at the bottom of the 5525 guide defines this as family member:

Family members:
An applicant’s closest relatives, in the context of an application. It is defined as a spouse or common-law partner, dependent children, and their dependent children. See subsection 1(3) of the IRPR for the legal definition.

Anyway, I would rather be safe than sorry, but it's a headache just thinking about trying to get my family members to actually take time out to get fingerprinted and get a medical exam. Oy vey!

 

[Pontianak]

The FBI thing? At the time we were filling out the application, CIC did not allow third party channelers, and so it took 6 MONTHS because the FBI is so backlogged. We opened up the letters to make sure everything was correct and just put them in with the evidence using the checklist. The wording of the forms at the time we were filling it all out didn't even hint that my family members also needed the medical done, only me and so my family members didn't do the medical stuff, just the fbi. With that said, I think some forms have update since our submission... sooo your milage may vary.

Good news for you, they recently started accepting third party fbi channelers which means you won't have to wait 6 months like we did. While more expensive, it cuts the wait time down to a couple weeks. I'm totally jealous.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/north-america/united-states.asp

 

[Pontianak]

The FBI thing? At the time we were filling out the application, CIC did not allow third party channelers, and so it took 6 MONTHS because the FBI is so backlogged. We opened up the letters to make sure everything was correct and just put them in with the evidence using the checklist. The wording of the forms at the time we were filling it all out didn't even hint that my family members also needed the medical done, only me and so my family members didn't do the medical stuff, just myself. With that said, I think some forms have update since our submission... sooo your milage may vary.

Good news for you, they recently started accepting third party fbi channelers which means you won't have to wait 6 months like we did. While more expensive, it cuts the wait time down to a couple weeks. I'm totally jealous.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/north-america/united-states.asp

 

[c.varo16]

The FBI thing? At the time we were filling out the application, CIC did not allow third party channelers, and so it took 6 MONTHS because the FBI is so backlogged. We opened up the letters to make sure everything was correct and just put them in with the evidence using the checklist. The wording of the forms at the time we were filling it all out didn't even hint that my family members also needed the medical done, only me and so my family members didn't do the medical stuff, just the fbi. With that said, I think some forms have update since our submission... sooo your milage may vary.

Good news for you, they recently started accepting third party fbi channelers which means you won't have to wait 6 months like we did. While more expensive, it cuts the wait time down to a couple weeks. I'm totally jealous.

Wow, 6 months?! That is insane. It's pretty crazy how many changes they've made to apply to be a PR! I've heard of some files being as big as 800 pages before. Now, you're only allowed 20 photographs max and 10 pages total of e-mails/letters/social media conversations, etc.. Our entire application is probably 50 pages right now and we're pretty much done!

It kind of worked in our favor that my husband and I totally procrastinated on this application being that we were supposed to apply last summer when we got married! Haha

Anyway, thank you so much for your feedback..

 

[Pontianak]

Wow, 6 months?! That is insane. It's pretty crazy how many changes they've made to apply to be a PR! I've heard of some files being as big as 800 pages before. Now, you're only allowed 20 photographs max and 10 pages total of e-mails/letters/social media conversations, etc.. Our entire application is probably 50 pages right now and we're pretty much done!

It kind of worked in our favor that my husband and I totally procrastinated on this application being that we were supposed to apply last summer when we got married! Haha

Anyway, thank you so much for your feedback..

Our app was about 500ish pages.... Mailed the application in a box. There was no restrictions like that, and it was wording like "Submit all evidence, including emails, letters, etc." I guess they realized they were being so open ended with the evidence requests that they were causing forests to cry. lol

 

[danawhitaker]

The FBI thing? At the time we were filling out the application, CIC did not allow third party channelers, and so it took 6 MONTHS because the FBI is so backlogged. We opened up the letters to make sure everything was correct and just put them in with the evidence using the checklist. The wording of the forms at the time we were filling it all out didn't even hint that my family members also needed the medical done, only me and so my family members didn't do the medical stuff, just the fbi. With that said, I think some forms have update since our submission... sooo your milage may vary.

Good news for you, they recently started accepting third party fbi channelers which means you won't have to wait 6 months like we did. While more expensive, it cuts the wait time down to a couple weeks. I'm totally jealous.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/north-america/united-states.asp

I'd say the channeler isn't necessarily any more expensive, depending on where you live. I ended up paying $50 at Fieldprint. The minimum fee to the FBI was $18, and then all of the police departments I called here for actual fingerprinting wanted $10-15 per card. So if you wanted to get multiple cards to avoid them having issues with not being able to read the prints, that could add up fast.

Hi everyone! I am applying for PR through spousal sponsorship, outland. My husband and I are interpreting a section of the PR application differently.

In regard to the police certificate (I live in California, USA), it says that all non-accompanying family members over the age of 18 must get a police certificate.

Since I don't have any dependents, he thinks that this would include my parents and two younger siblings (both over 18).

I on the other hand do not think they are classified as the "non-accompanying family members"

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but just thought I'd look for a little clarification.

Thank you!

Certificates are *not* required for other family members such as siblings, parents, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on it. They did not even ask for proof that my mom was deceased, and I haven't seen my father since I was 14 so getting anything from him would have been an exercise in futility.

Our app was about 500ish pages.... Mailed the application in a box. There was no restrictions like that, and it was wording like "Submit all evidence, including emails, letters, etc." I guess they realized they were being so open ended with the evidence requests that they were causing forests to cry. lol

My application was over 300. To be honest, I was way more comfortable with what I was able to send than with what they ask for now. Since my husband and I don't live together, much of our proof ended up being stuff that wouldn't really fall into a lot of the categories they want now, and I felt like our strongest proof was the relationship chronology with accompanying documentation.

 

[c.varo16]

I'd say the channeler isn't necessarily any more expensive, depending on where you live. I ended up paying $50 at Fieldprint. The minimum fee to the FBI was $18, and then all of the police departments I called here for actual fingerprinting wanted $10-15 per card. So if you wanted to get multiple cards to avoid them having issues with not being able to read the prints, that could add up fast.

Certificates are *not* required for other family members such as siblings, parents, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on it. They did not even ask for proof that my mom was deceased, and I haven't seen my father since I was 14 so getting anything from him would have been an exercise in futility.

My application was over 300. To be honest, I was way more comfortable with what I was able to send than with what they ask for now. Since my husband and I don't live together, much of our proof ended up being stuff that wouldn't really fall into a lot of the categories they want now, and I felt like our strongest proof was the relationship chronology with accompanying documentation.

Wow, thank you @danawhitaker! I found ALL of your information to be extremely helpful. Also, I'm on the same boat as you as far as being more comfortable with sending in more. My husband and I are trying to squeeze as much as we can into the allowed pages, and are a bit surprised that they expect us to sum up 4 years together in 10 pages! We use the app, WhatsApp, to text each other.. And our conversations alone from 2012 until now are more than 2,000 pages! (embarrassing, haha.)

Anyway, I wish we were allowed more room to submit the legitimacy of our relationship, but we're just doing what we can.

Again, thank you very much for all of your insight and info!

 

[Pontianak]

We use the app, WhatsApp, to text each other.. And our conversations alone from 2012 until now are more than 2,000 pages! (embarrassing, haha.

oh the memories... instead of WhatsApp, we use Line. Similiar 2000 pages thing. What I did was pick 2 random messages (one from me and one from her) on each day and cut out the rest of the messages for that day and included a quick letter prefacing that is what I did to our line chat logs. It cut the amount of pages to submit considerably.

 

[c.varo16]

oh the memories... instead of WhatsApp, we use Line. Similiar 2000 pages thing. What I did was pick 2 random messages (one from me and one from her) on each day and cut out the rest of the messages for that day and included a quick letter prefacing that is what I did to our line chat logs. It cut the amount of pages to submit considerably.

My husband and I did something a bit similar.. We have a few lines of conversation at the beginning of the year, middle of the year, and end of the year for 4 consecutive years and tried to show a range of things.. From the mushy stuff, to arguments, planning trips, etc.. Fingers crossed!

I've heard recently that many US to Canada PR apps have taken as little as 4 months to process and be approved.. Hoping ours doesn't take too long!

 

[danawhitaker]

oh the memories... instead of WhatsApp, we use Line. Similiar 2000 pages thing. What I did was pick 2 random messages (one from me and one from her) on each day and cut out the rest of the messages for that day and included a quick letter prefacing that is what I did to our line chat logs. It cut the amount of pages to submit considerably.

We use Google Hangouts, primarily, though over the years we've used other stuff, but a lot of that was prior to when we were in a romantic relationship. It ended up being some ridiculous amount approaching 800,000 lines of text, going back to 2010. That excluded other channels of communication like IRC or World of Warcraft during that same timeframe. We didn't even try and count the stuff going back further, to 2002. And that was on top of the 2-4 hours of voice chat we do a night.

We ended up selecting a few conversations per month from the time we considered ourselves a couple, just to show continuous communication about both large and mundane things.

 

[c.varo16]

We use Google Hangouts, primarily, though over the years we've used other stuff, but a lot of that was prior to when we were in a romantic relationship. It ended up being some ridiculous amount approaching 800,000 lines of text, going back to 2010. That excluded other channels of communication like IRC or World of Warcraft during that same timeframe. We didn't even try and count the stuff going back further, to 2002. And that was on top of the 2-4 hours of voice chat we do a night.

We ended up selecting a few conversations per month from the time we considered ourselves a couple, just to show continuous communication about both large and mundane things.

Wow, that is A LOT. Haha. It seems like generally everyone has the same idea of just including as much as they can over the years of the relationship so I'm not too worried about that part.

I am concerned though that my husband hasn't really kept any of his boarding passes. I don't think that flight itineraries are solid enough because it doesn't necessarily mean he got onto those flights. We did scan the stamps on his passport, although it didn't get stamped every single time he entered into the U.S. - This is the only area I am not feeling confident in for our application.

I on the otherhand, have most, if not all my boarding passes.. But I'm wondering if it would be okay to scan and send that over? I kind of wanted to keep the originals and I doubt we get anything back. Any opinions on that?

 

[danawhitaker]

Wow, that is A LOT. Haha. It seems like generally everyone has the same idea of just including as much as they can over the years of the relationship so I'm not too worried about that part.

I am concerned though that my husband hasn't really kept any of his boarding passes. I don't think that flight itineraries are solid enough because it doesn't necessarily mean he got onto those flights. We did scan the stamps on his passport, although it didn't get stamped every single time he entered into the U.S. - This is the only area I am not feeling confident in for our application.

I on the otherhand, have most, if not all my boarding passes.. But I'm wondering if it would be okay to scan and send that over? I kind of wanted to keep the originals and I doubt we get anything back. Any opinions on that?

I travel by Amtrak and Greyhound. I've also never had my passport stamped crossing the border, and neither has my husband. They confiscate the original tickets when you board (in my experience), so I printed copies of the ones I originally received by e-mail. They all say non-refundable on them, so I'd have to have been wasting a lot of money on non-trips. This is where other relationship proof came into play for us though. I also had receipts for food purchases along the way in some cases, and copies of the information I left behind for the person who was caring for my child. I had copies of the mail hold I submitted to USPS, and my travel insurance, with all the dates matching up. My husband would drive down to visit me, so wouldn't have tickets of any kind. In that case, we had receipts for gas and credit card statements showing he made purchases in my local area during that period, along with screenshots of actual text messages back and forth during the time he was traveling. He also had proof of his purchased travel insurance. I would go ahead and print out whatever kind of flight confirmations there were. They seemed fine accepting that from me. Greyhound does tag luggage with dates and times but I hadn't thought about saving those. I would just scan them. They don't need to have the originals. We scanned everything like that, and the only "original" things that we sent were the photographs. Those were just printed at Walmart, explicitly for the purposes of the application, so I don't care if we get those back or not. I think the problem is with the way they ask for proof now, it can get harder to provide those things in a way that doesn't start adding up to a larger amount than they want submitted.

The burden of proof is generally considered lower for Americans. I suspect you're fine with what you've mentioned.

 

[c.varo16]

Just got a response back from los-angeles-im-enquiry@international.gc.ca-

Dear Madam,

You parents and siblings are not required to provide police certificates or medical examinations.

..Just in case anyone else was wondering!