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Police Certificate for Citizenship application

sanjaytb

Newbie
Apr 3, 2019
7
0
Hi,
I am in the process of applying for Canadian Citizenship and one of the questions in the application form is if I have stayed in a country in a row for 183 days or more in the past 4 years. We moved from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Toronto 3 years back. I have explained my scenario below; appreciate if someone could let me know if I need a police certificate.

- Landed in Toronto on the 14th of October 2015
- Left for United States on the 21st of October 2015
- Went back to Dubai on 31st of October 2015
- Traveled to Gerogia on 1st December 2015
- Came back to Dubai on 5th December 2015
- Moved permanently to Toronto on 6th May 2016

Between the day I left Toronto (21st October 2015) and the day I permanently moved back to Toronto (6th May 2016) the number of days are more than 183. But I was not actually in Dubai for that many days, as I had spent around 10 days in US and about 4 days in Georgia. Should I still need to get a Police Certificate from Dubai?
 

badar14

Champion Member
May 5, 2012
1,267
213
Vancouver
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
0213
App. Filed.......
02-05-2010
LANDED..........
06-Aug-2013
Hi,
I am in the process of applying for Canadian Citizenship and one of the questions in the application form is if I have stayed in a country in a row for 183 days or more in the past 4 years. We moved from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Toronto 3 years back. I have explained my scenario below; appreciate if someone could let me know if I need a police certificate.

- Landed in Toronto on the 14th of October 2015
- Left for United States on the 21st of October 2015
- Went back to Dubai on 31st of October 2015
- Traveled to Gerogia on 1st December 2015
- Came back to Dubai on 5th December 2015
- Moved permanently to Toronto on 6th May 2016

Between the day I left Toronto (21st October 2015) and the day I permanently moved back to Toronto (6th May 2016) the number of days are more than 183. But I was not actually in Dubai for that many days, as I had spent around 10 days in US and about 4 days in Georgia. Should I still need to get a Police Certificate from Dubai?

In the past four (4) years, if you spent 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18) in a country (other than Canada), you must provide a police certificate from each country. Indicate in the chart the name of each country and provide a police certificate. If you can’t get a police certificate, tell us why. The following examples may help you answer this question.

Example 1
You lived in France for one year (365 days) before you became a permanent resident 3 years ago. You did not travel to France after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from France if you did not provide one with your immigration application. If you provided a police certificate from France with your immigration application, tell us this in the box provided at Question 10b.
Example 2
You became a permanent resident three years and nine months ago. In the past 4 years, you lived in Brazil for 3 months (90 days) before you became a permanent resident and you returned to Brazil to visit family for 4 months (120 days) after you became a permanent resident. You would answer “No” to the question and you would not need to provide a police certificate from Brazil because you did not spend 183 days or more in a row in Brazil.
Example 3
In the past 4 years, you took 10 trips to the United States of America (USA). Each trip lasted 3 weeks, for a total of 210 days. You would answer “No” to the question and you would not need to provide a police certificate from the USA because you did not spend 183 days or more in a row in the USA.
Example 4
In the past 4 years, you travelled to Singapore four times for work. The first trip was for 30 days; the second trip was for 200 days; the third trip was for 60 days; and the fourth trip was for 120 days. While in Singapore, you took a trip to Malaysia (10 days) and Thailand (10 days). You would answer “Yes” to the question and you would need to provide a police certificate from Singapore because your second trip was more than 183 days in a row. You would not need to provide police certificates from Malaysia or Thailand.
Example 5
In the past 4 years, you took one (1) trip to Europe where you visited Portugal (5 days), Spain (7 days), France (10 days), Belgium (3 days), Netherlands (3 days), Germany (21 days), Switzerland (7 days) and Italy (21 days). You took a second trip to Europe where you visited Ireland (14 days), Scotland (14 days) and England (21 days). You went to Germany for a business trip that lasted 60 days. The total time you were outside of Canada was 186 days but you were not in a single country for 183 days or more in a row. You would answer “No” to the question and you would not need to provide police certificates from any of the countries.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Good Luck
 

sanjaytb

Newbie
Apr 3, 2019
7
0
Hi,
I saw these examples but my particular scenario is not there in these. In my case I was out of country for more than 183 days but traveled to more than one countries before coming back to Canada. In all the examples which were given the PR holder comes back to Canada and then leaves for another trip.
When the authorities look at my case they will see that I was out of Canada for more than 183 days and they don't know which all countries I visited during this period.
Would you know if the PC is still required?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,298
3,062
Hi,
I am in the process of applying for Canadian Citizenship and one of the questions in the application form is if I have stayed in a country in a row for 183 days or more in the past 4 years. We moved from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Toronto 3 years back. I have explained my scenario below; appreciate if someone could let me know if I need a police certificate.

- Landed in Toronto on the 14th of October 2015
- Left for United States on the 21st of October 2015
- Went back to Dubai on 31st of October 2015
- Traveled to Gerogia on 1st December 2015
- Came back to Dubai on 5th December 2015
- Moved permanently to Toronto on 6th May 2016

Between the day I left Toronto (21st October 2015) and the day I permanently moved back to Toronto (6th May 2016) the number of days are more than 183. But I was not actually in Dubai for that many days, as I had spent around 10 days in US and about 4 days in Georgia. Should I still need to get a Police Certificate from Dubai?
TECHNICALLY it appears you can check the "No" box in response to Item 10.b) since (according to your accounting) you were not in "a single country for 183 days or more in a row." If you check the "No" box there is NO instruction to include a police certificate. So if you check "No" you are NOT required to submit a police certificate WITH the application. (Quoted language is from Example 5.)

IRCC may, nonetheless, later request a police certificate. (This is true for any applicant, even those who have spent a lot less time in another country.)

There is insufficient reporting, and it is too soon after the change (prior to the latest version of the application, CIT 0002 (01-2019), which has only been in use for barely two months now, your scenario would have clearly required a police certificate with the application), to predict whether IRCC will want a police clearance in order to verify you have no offences in Dubai constituting a prohibition.

I understand your quandary. Your scenario is one which suggests a significant RISK that IRCC will request (require) a police clearance notwithstanding one is NOT required to make a complete application. And, again, we do not know if they will. They very well might.

There should be minimal or no risk that IRCC will have a problem with the "No" response itself, in response to Item 10.b), since you will, of course, report the trips to the U.S. and Georgia as well as Dubai (listing the primary destination in the country box in the presence calculator, and listing other countries visited during that absence in the box for stating the trip's purpose, following the instructions for the online presence calculator). The question is whether IRCC will nonetheless want a clearance given the extent of time and residence in Dubai.

How you handle this is for you to decide. I do not know how inconvenient or how long it takes to obtain a police certificate from Dubai. Even though generally the conventional wisdom is to NOT submit any documents other than what is specifically required, this is an instance in which one might make an exception . . . no need to check "Yes" in responding to Item 10.b). Just check the corresponding item in the checklist and include the clearance. If that is how YOU decide to proceed.

Other alternatives include applying without including a clearance but in the meantime proceed to obtain one, so that if IRCC does request one later you can promptly submit it and thereby minimize the time delay in reaching the oath.

Or, simply apply and wait to see how it goes. Again, since you can accurately check "No" in response to Item 10.b) your application would be complete (assuming all other information and documents are submitted). Only question is whether IRCC might want and later request (require) documentation verifying there are no prohibitions for offences in Dubai.


BUFFER SUGGESTION:

It appears you are preparing to make your application soon after reaching the minimum presence threshold. The prudent applicant WAITS to have a comfortable margin above the minimum presence requirement. Many suggest a week or a bit more. My sense leans toward a MONTH margin, and for some even longer depending on their personal circumstances. (I tend to NOT do what I preach, but in this regard I did do what I preach, and indeed I waited well over an extra year to apply, given my particular circumstances and, potentially, some more or less likely questions about the location of my business.)

If the question about including a police clearance depends in significant part on how long it will take to obtain the clearance, waiting a few weeks longer upfront, before applying, in order to obtain and include the clearance, might be the more prudent approach.

It is often overlooked that sometimes waiting longer to apply can mean a significantly shorter wait to the date for taking the oath.
 
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sanjaytb

Newbie
Apr 3, 2019
7
0
Thanks a lot! I am leaning more towards your suggestion of sending it without PC and then applying for PC while the application is being considered.
Also thanks for the suggestion of waiting for an extra month. Will take that as well. Appreciate your time.