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nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
She worked and contributed into the system for 55 years .
Yes, it was Alberta .Ontario is fast .This was prior to that new colonoscopy centre being opened at Foothills .And yes the wait times were long,maybe, hopefully they’ve improved by now . I remember her calling me at work the morning of her test , asking me whether since she waited so long , was it worth the time . I said, yes, get it done . Didn’t matter. The cancer had metastasized. She was over 70, she was not a priority in the system,she was not young , she was gone in three months
The only thing that happened fast ironically, was getting a spot in a hospice, that only took a day
More than likely they needed the bed in ICU she was in for a month, since we had tried taking care of her at home , but by then she required 24/7 pain management & care
Sorry to hear that.

What year was that? Was it during the Ralph Klein health care cuts years?

Alberta is heading there again so who know those delays may show up again in Alberta.

It is rubbish when governments say that oh we are not getting a better health care for what we spend.
 

nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
Everyone have a story to tell about the Canadian Healthcare. I had to wait for 14 hours in an Emergency for severe kidney pain because of the kidney stone. Because the Healthcare is free and I was not dying they kept in waiting room while the Doctors were treating the people who were dying.
That's what I am saying. All the money I paid for years and your Mom paid for 55 years was useless at the point when we needed. It would be been better to save all that money and see a Doctor or Specialist when you really are in need.
With Kidney stones the treatment in the emergency setting is by and large conservative ie painkillers and Tamsulosin.

Unless there is gross hematuria or the pain cannot be controlled and where the stones are large and unlikely to pass out spontaneously then they might consider any emergent procedures. Or if there is pyelonephritis which is a different diagnosis then and involves hospitalization and IV antibiotics.

The problem with health care is always a mismatch of expectations.

To every patient their problem is urgent and an emergency.

However the actual treatment sometimes is conservative and appears to be lacklustre and casual. This is disappointing to patients. They often watch TV (greatest source of misinformation) and think the ED is a place where everyone is running around and getting stat this and that and voila all done.

Doesnt happen like that. Also we could staff EDs with so many nurses and doctors that we can attend to anyone right away and get things done fast but it would cost a lot more and mean people might be sitting around doing nothing during lull periods. The reason why there are no lull periods in EDs is because the staffing is planned such that it is always slightly understaffed.

Cost.

I wish that governments would spend more to educate the public about what to expect rather than trying to place all the burden on doctors and nurses.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
Seems like you are very fond of Australia.
Yes I am fond of Australia it is a beautiful country with nice people minus the fire risks.

Canada and Australia are constantly compared because they have similar economies (heavily weighted in resources), have similar demographics and have similar immigration issues that they are dealing with. Many who have immigrated have decided between immigrating to Canada or Australia. That is why I suggest looking at Australia. Canada looked at Australia when d3 icing how to tackle foreign ownership although Canada tends to deal with things much slower than Canada.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
Everyone have a story to tell about the Canadian Healthcare. I had to wait for 14 hours in an Emergency for severe kidney pain because of the kidney stone. Because the Healthcare is free and I was not dying they kept in waiting room while the Doctors were treating the people who were dying.
That's what I am saying. All the money I paid for years and your Mom paid for 55 years was useless at the point when we needed. It would be been better to save all that money and see a Doctor or Specialist when you really are in need.
Did you receive any pain medication during the 14 hours?. Primary treatment for kidney stones is pain management and hydration. If that doesn’t work they move to a stent. Not saying that we don’t all wait but pointing out that there was nothing else they were going to do for you other than pain management during the 14 hours. Not clear if you weren’t given anything or given pain meds and been made to wait after that.

In terms of the colonoscopy if your mother complained about bloating, blood in her stools, changes in BM, etc. She really should have been seen earlier. Her story is very unfortunate. I am happy to see that she got into a hospice because many don’t have that option since there aren’t many hospice beds and many hospices are charities. Unfortunately doctors are still human and miss things especially if there aren’t good signs and symptoms. There are also bad doctors. I had an ER doctor miss a pneumothorax once. The best is that the doctor basically called me a wimp and OHIP tried to bill my GP for unecessary use of the ER. Luckily radiologists do a second pass. The ER doctor called me to tell me to come back and lied and said he happened to look at my films again after I left and noticed the collapsed lung. I was nice and didn’t tell him I knew radiology found it after he missed it. Yes I waited but I also didn’t get a 40k bill for my ER stay, hospital stay, chest tube and tons of repeated chest x-rays. Unfortunately even in the best medical systems things get missed, get misdiagnosed, etc. I have lots of stories of bad things getting missed like my friend who is an MD almost had her volvulus missed which could have killed her. Luckily when they were going to discharge her because they told her she must have had an ovarian cyst that burst she put her foot down and told them she wasn’t leaving without a CT. She was rushed to surgery soon after and was very close to her colon killing her. Do think the system got better from the cutback in the 90s but the system is being overwhelmed as sick people live longer, as care gets more expensive and as our population ages and that is why I have concerns about things like the Amount of PGP applicants. Also have concerns about birth tourism that takes away resources for Canadians just due to staffing and beds but also unpaid bills. NICU is actually the bigger issue versus the moms. Also non-OHIP women can use midwives for free. Haven’t looked at the other provinces but it can be very tough for women with OHIP to get a midwife but those without a OHIP can see one for free and many seem to get seen easily.

When I am in various hospital offices I see people complaining about the most minor things or saying they are at level 10 of pain while they are sitting down talking normally. Unless there are actual results that can tell physicians there is something wrong it is very hard to tell whether a patient actually has something seriously wrong with them and they are very stoic and don’t like to bother people or some people have a low tolerance for any type of discomfort and want a CT scan every time thy have a headache because they are convinced it is something serious. I can imagine this is challenging for doctors although I find it very frustrating as a person who doesn’t complain a lot.

I consider myself lucky since I live in an urban centre and in a larger province, I know that residents of some of the smaller provinces or those in more of a rural area often face much more challenges than I do. No simple solution to solving any of this. It’s unfortunately too late for your mother but I believe that there is now an occult blood test that you can do at home and mail in that should pick up GI cancers earlier and reach more people who are too afraid or not comfortable doing a colonoscopy. Hopefully it will prevent other delays in diagnosis.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
With Kidney stones the treatment in the emergency setting is by and large conservative ie painkillers and Tamsulosin.

Unless there is gross hematuria or the pain cannot be controlled and where the stones are large and unlikely to pass out spontaneously then they might consider any emergent procedures. Or if there is pyelonephritis which is a different diagnosis then and involves hospitalization and IV antibiotics.

The problem with health care is always a mismatch of expectations.

To every patient their problem is urgent and an emergency.

However the actual treatment sometimes is conservative and appears to be lacklustre and casual. This is disappointing to patients. They often watch TV (greatest source of misinformation) and think the ED is a place where everyone is running around and getting stat this and that and voila all done.

Doesnt happen like that. Also we could staff EDs with so many nurses and doctors that we can attend to anyone right away and get things done fast but it would cost a lot more and mean people might be sitting around doing nothing during lull periods. The reason why there are no lull periods in EDs is because the staffing is planned such that it is always slightly understaffed.

Cost.

I wish that governments would spend more to educate the public about what to expect rather than trying to place all the burden on doctors and nurses.
Would also add that I wish Canada would spend time educating the public how to be good patients. Try to come when you have a few issues to discuss not just one Rx refill. Write them down so you can get through them efficiently. Bring a list of your medications or bring your medications with you. Have a list of all the doctors you are seeing and the pharmacist you are using.

In general the Canadian public needs to realize that trying to be healthy will help the country. Saying that it doesn’t matter if you live a healthy lifestyle you will still have access to healthcare to treat you isn’t the right attitude. Unfortunately not always the case like you may not get a liver transplant if you develop cirrhosis. Only so many organs are available if you are able to get on the transplant list. I am always shocked when carriers of horrible diseases don’t choose IVF and leave it to chance. Some damage to your body can’t be reversed, not every illness has a treatment or cure and there may not even be a diagnosis for your condition even with all the scientific advances. Also patients need to talk about death with their doctors and family members way before they are actually dying. Discussing whether you want to be an organ donor, whether you want to be kept alive if you are on a ventilator, etc.
 

nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
Yes I am fond of Australia it is a beautiful country with nice people minus the fire risks.

Canada and Australia are constantly compared because they have similar economies (heavily weighted in resources), have similar demographics and have similar immigration issues that they are dealing with. Many who have immigrated have decided between immigrating to Canada or Australia. That is why I suggest looking at Australia. Canada looked at Australia when d3 icing how to tackle foreign ownership although Canada tends to deal with things much slower than Canada.
Immigrants from Asia tend to prefer Australia because of the weather. Less cold. Canada is VERY cold. At least that is the perception.

This is also why more immigrants from Asia choose to go to Vancouver which has higher temperatures during winter. (Although the concept of damp cold and dry cold is something Canadians who have lived in the prairies will understand )

So the type of immigrant going to Australia and Canada can be a bit different.

The ones going to Canada are willing to brace the cold and the challenges of snowy winters and roads.

Whereas in Australia the climate is similar to that in Asia except for the colder winters (it is like a cold day on our summers).

From what I have heard from friends Aussies are more racist and open about it. Whereas in Canada if encountered it is of the passive aggressive nature.
 
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nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
Did you receive any pain medication during the 14 hours?. Primary treatment for kidney stones is pain management and hydration. If that doesn’t work they move to a stent. Not saying that we don’t all wait but pointing out that there was nothing else they were going to do for you other than pain management during the 14 hours. Not clear if you weren’t given anything or given pain meds and been made to wait after that.

In terms of the colonoscopy if your mother complained about bloating, blood in her stools, changes in BM, etc. She really should have been seen earlier. Her story is very unfortunate. I am happy to see that she got into a hospice because many don’t have that option since there aren’t many hospice beds and many hospices are charities. Unfortunately doctors are still human and miss things especially if there aren’t good signs and symptoms. There are also bad doctors. I had an ER doctor miss a pneumothorax once. The best is that the doctor basically called me a wimp and OHIP tried to bill my GP for unecessary use of the ER. Luckily radiologists do a second pass. The ER doctor called me to tell me to come back and lied and said he happened to look at my films again after I left and noticed the collapsed lung. I was nice and didn’t tell him I knew radiology found it after he missed it. Yes I waited but I also didn’t get a 40k bill for my ER stay, hospital stay, chest tube and tons of repeated chest x-rays. Unfortunately even in the best medical systems things get missed, get misdiagnosed, etc. I have lots of stories of bad things getting missed like my friend who is an MD almost had her volvulus missed which could have killed her. Luckily when they were going to discharge her because they told her she must have had an ovarian cyst that burst she put her foot down and told them she wasn’t leaving without a CT. She was rushed to surgery soon after and was very close to her colon killing her. Do think the system got better from the cutback in the 90s but the system is being overwhelmed as sick people live longer, as care gets more expensive and as our population ages and that is why I have concerns about things like the Amount of PGP applicants. Also have concerns about birth tourism that takes away resources for Canadians just due to staffing and beds but also unpaid bills. NICU is actually the bigger issue versus the moms. Also non-OHIP women can use midwives for free. Haven’t looked at the other provinces but it can be very tough for women with OHIP to get a midwife but those without a OHIP can see one for free and many seem to get seen easily.

When I am in various hospital offices I see people complaining about the most minor things or saying they are at level 10 of pain while they are sitting down talking normally. Unless there are actual results that can tell physicians there is something wrong it is very hard to tell whether a patient actually has something seriously wrong with them and they are very stoic and don’t like to bother people or some people have a low tolerance for any type of discomfort and want a CT scan every time thy have a headache because they are convinced it is something serious. I can imagine this is challenging for doctors although I find it very frustrating as a person who doesn’t complain a lot.

I consider myself lucky since I live in an urban centre and in a larger province, I know that residents of some of the smaller provinces or those in more of a rural area often face much more challenges than I do. No simple solution to solving any of this. It’s unfortunately too late for your mother but I believe that there is now an occult blood test that you can do at home and mail in that should pick up GI cancers earlier and reach more people who are too afraid or not comfortable doing a colonoscopy. Hopefully it will prevent other delays in diagnosis.
I actually think that all Canadian doctors should spend some time training in the USA or a country with private health care. See patients who are paying patients and learn how that system is like. How those patients behave. And also learn to deal with the outrageous demands that come along as well.

Because it will change their attitudes towards health care in general. They will also see the pros and cons of a universal healthcare system and I believe it allows doctors to learn the good practices in private medical care system and apply it in the universal system.

Customer service is very important in private healthcare. This is something that is somewhat deficient in Canada. Because the doctors have never really been trained in high pressure service delivery environments.
 
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nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
She worked and contributed into the system for 55 years .
Yes, it was Alberta .Ontario is fast .This was prior to that new colonoscopy centre being opened at Foothills .And yes the wait times were long,maybe, hopefully they’ve improved by now . I remember her calling me at work the morning of her test , asking me whether since she waited so long , was it worth the time . I said, yes, get it done . Didn’t matter. The cancer had metastasized. She was over 70, she was not a priority in the system,she was not young , she was gone in three months
The only thing that happened fast ironically, was getting a spot in a hospice, that only took a day
More than likely they needed the bed in ICU she was in for a month, since we had tried taking care of her at home , but by then she required 24/7 pain management & care
Sorry your mother wasnt waiting 3 years for a SCREENING colonoscopy! She already had symptoms?

That is unacceptable. Totally.

I am shocked that the family doctor didnt advocate for her to be seen earlier or had investigations done earlier!

What year was this? That is horrible!
 

zt2018

Hero Member
Apr 6, 2018
265
126
It is interesting that when PGP program is discussed, healthcare becomes one of the hottest topics although we all undersand that not all sponsored parents will need expensive procedures and care services, children-sponsors from some countries will not even consider care homes for their parents, we also undestand that yound and healthy immigrants coming to Canada through economic streams or as sponsored spouses and children can get injured or ill and require same or even more care than someone's parent or grandparent.
I find it strange that nobody is talking about how sponsor's ability to confirm that they are able to provide adequate housing is not taken into account during the sponsorsip period.
Everybody is talking about meeting LICO, but to me a family which meets LICO and has the home they own (no mortgage) with the bedroom for the sponsored person(s) is in an absolutely different financial situation than the one which meets LICO and rents the home with just enough bedrooms for themselves. Sponsors from both examples will sign sponsorship undertaking promising to provide for the needs of the people they sponsor, but no questions are asked about how they can do it.
 
Last edited:

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
Immigrants from Asia tend to prefer Australia because of the weather. Less cold. Canada is VERY cold. At least that is the perception.

This is also why more immigrants from Asia choose to go to Vancouver which has higher temperatures during winter. (Although the concept of damp cold and dry cold is something Canadians who have lived in the prairies will understand )

So the type of immigrant going to Australia and Canada can be a bit different.

The ones going to Canada are willing to brace the cold and the challenges of snowy winters and roads.

Whereas in Australia the climate is similar to that in Asia except for the colder winters (it is like a cold day on our summers).

From what I have heard from friends Aussies are more racist and open about it. Whereas in Canada if encountered it is of the passive aggressive nature.
Why Asian immigrant initially settled in Vancouver has nothing to do with weather. It has to do with proximity to Asia. Much easier to go home and visit family if you are living in Vancouver versus Montreal which was the more popular immigration city at the time. Vancouver remains popular because the short flight to Asia and because the large expat populations. Nothing to do with weather.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
It is interesting that when PGP program is discussed, healthcare becomes one of the hottest topics although we all undersand that not all sponsored parents will need expensive procedures and care services, children-sponsors from some countries will not even consider care homes for their parents, we also undestand that yound and healthy immigrants coming to Canada through economic streams or as sponsored spouses and children can get injured or ill and require same or even more care than someone's parent or grandparent.
I find it strange that nobody is talking about how sponsor's ability to confirm that they are able to provide adequate housing is not taken into account during the sponsorsip period.
Everybody is talking about meeting LICO, but to me a family which meets LICO and has the home they own (no mortgage) with the bedroom for the sponsored person(s) is in an absolutely different financial situation than the one which meets LICO and rents the home with just enough bedrooms for themselves. Sponsors from both examples will sign sponsorship undertaking promising to provide for the needs of the people they sponsor, but no questions are asked about how they can do it.
LICO amounts are supposed to be high enough to provide housing which is why I find the rates very low especially for the more expensive cities in Canada. Home ownership doesn’t mean that someone would have an extra bedroom and people can move so that would be hard to monitor. Research shows that you spend the most money on healthcare in the last 3 years of life. Healthcare will be the most expensive thing that the government pays for when it comes to individuals. There are some very lucky people who remain healthy until their sudden death but that is not always the case. Although families may want to care for their parents it is a very demanding job and it may not be possible. It is also unusual for an elderly person to not have an event that lands them in hospital at least once as they decline. Could be a stroke, heart attack, fall, aneurysm, cancer, etc. That could cost +100k and the parent may still return home to be cared for. If a senior has dementia or Alzheimers it may not be possible for them to remain at home. Their behaviour can get aggressive or they can try to escape at all hours of the day or night. They may be to heavy to lift for their family. The home may not be suitable for an elderly person with limited mobility like no downstairs bathroom. Children may still be working when their parents get sick. There is no way to guarantee that parents will not need expensive healthcare or can be cared for at home. Healthcare costs come up with talk of elderly people whether talking about PGP or seniors that have been in Canada their whole lives. There is inadequate spaces in nursing homes and that is the most expensive way to receive care other than hospitals. The provinces want seniors to receive home care but there aren’t enough resources in home care. There haven’t been enough resources for the disabled, sick or seniors for decades but it is getting worse. Many seniors would prefer to live at home. Unfortunately what happens is that it is left up to families and the family’s ability to pay for extra care. That means that the less well off without a lot of family often fall through the cracks. My grandfather lived in a private residence that was something crazy like +10k/month but started to have flashbacks about WWII due to his Parkinson’s and delusions about machines controlling people. We had to hire a PSW to remain with him in his room overnight because it would take too long for the one attendant on the floor overnight to help him. The PSW basically calmed him down and would sit next to him so he was reassured so could go back to sleep. The bills add up very quickly. Luckily he was in the position to do this. His kids would not be able to do this daily and run their lives and visit him during the daytime. Many people who have not gone through the healthcare system with an elderly person or someone with a serious chronic illness are unaware that there quite a lot of gaps in the healthcare system and are not prepared and have unrealistic expectations. The government should be much more open so people can prepare.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
I actually think that all Canadian doctors should spend some time training in the USA or a country with private health care. See patients who are paying patients and learn how that system is like. How those patients behave. And also learn to deal with the outrageous demands that come along as well.

Because it will change their attitudes towards health care in general. They will also see the pros and cons of a universal healthcare system and I believe it allows doctors to learn the good practices in private medical care system and apply it in the universal system.

Customer service is very important in private healthcare. This is something that is somewhat deficient in Canada. Because the doctors have never really been trained in high pressure service delivery environments.
Not a huge difference because the majority of US residents are limited to who they can see based on insurance. They can’t just walk into any hospital unless they can pay cash. There are difficult patients in both the Canadian and US system. The difficult people tend to be difficiltvpeople to deal with in their normal lives. Was at the phlebotomy clinic at a large Ontario hospital when some older man had a fit when he realized he was just having blood work drawn and he was not seeing a doctor. He started yelling and demanding a manager and declared that he was a large donor to the hospital and deserved to see a doctor. The phlebotomist received to deal with the patient who I suspect was not a large donor to the hospital. He basically yelled for $0minutes and was still yelling when I left. Meanwhile a grandmother was allowing her grandchild to walk on the ar,a of the chairs in the waiting room and was acting like the furniture in the waiting room was a jungle gym. Felt bad for the whole team and made sure to say thank you and tell them they didn’t deserve to be treated great way.

Not sure why you don’t think Canadian doctors haven’t been in high pressure service delivery. A busy hospital will teach you how to deal with that. A hospital is still hospital and not a hotel. For their super high net worth patients their main concerns is quality of doctor, privacy and the hospital room and food. The room and whether they feel like it is more like a hotel and not a hospital room is what is important. Communication from the doctor is less of an issue. The thing that would teach doctors the most would be for them to spend a month in a hospital as an inpatient. Would be best if they were actually sick.
 

zt2018

Hero Member
Apr 6, 2018
265
126
LICO amounts are supposed to be high enough to provide housing which is why I find the rates very low especially for the more expensive cities in Canada. Home ownership doesn’t mean that someone would have an extra bedroom and people can move so that would be hard to monitor. Research shows that you spend the most money on healthcare in the last 3 years of life. Healthcare will be the most expensive thing that the government pays for when it comes to individuals. There are some very lucky people who remain healthy until their sudden death but that is not always the case. Although families may want to care for their parents it is a very demanding job and it may not be possible. It is also unusual for an elderly person to not have an event that lands them in hospital at least once as they decline. Could be a stroke, heart attack, fall, aneurysm, cancer, etc. That could cost +100k and the parent may still return home to be cared for. If a senior has dementia or Alzheimers it may not be possible for them to remain at home. Their behaviour can get aggressive or they can try to escape at all hours of the day or night. They may be to heavy to lift for their family. The home may not be suitable for an elderly person with limited mobility like no downstairs bathroom. Children may still be working when their parents get sick. There is no way to guarantee that parents will not need expensive healthcare or can be cared for at home. Healthcare costs come up with talk of elderly people whether talking about PGP or seniors that have been in Canada their whole lives. There is inadequate spaces in nursing homes and that is the most expensive way to receive care other than hospitals. The provinces want seniors to receive home care but there aren’t enough resources in home care. There haven’t been enough resources for the disabled, sick or seniors for decades but it is getting worse. Many seniors would prefer to live at home. Unfortunately what happens is that it is left up to families and the family’s ability to pay for extra care. That means that the less well off without a lot of family often fall through the cracks. My grandfather lived in a private residence that was something crazy like +10k/month but started to have flashbacks about WWII due to his Parkinson’s and delusions about machines controlling people. We had to hire a PSW to remain with him in his room overnight because it would take too long for the one attendant on the floor overnight to help him. The PSW basically calmed him down and would sit next to him so he was reassured so could go back to sleep. The bills add up very quickly. Luckily he was in the position to do this. His kids would not be able to do this daily and run their lives and visit him during the daytime. Many people who have not gone through the healthcare system with an elderly person or someone with a serious chronic illness are unaware that there quite a lot of gaps in the healthcare system and are not prepared and have unrealistic expectations. The government should be much more open so people can prepare.
I agree with you about healthcare costs. People need to be informed about them. You are talking about what you know. I work for a provincial housing authority and every day see clients struggling with finding housing (both citizents and PRs). I also see a lot of sponsored PRs who do not realize that they are not eligible for subsidized housing while they are under sponsorship (and make their family ineligible).
I agree that LICOs are very low. I am just saying that family with 80 000/per year income and owing their home is in absolutely different financial position than family with the same income, but paying 1700-2000 every month for rent.
I know, it opens discussion about favoring people with more assets and it is not a Canadian way, but letting people sign the undertaking with the promise to provide for their sponsored person without even asking how they plan to do it, in my opinion is irresponsible.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,768
I agree with you about healthcare costs. People need to be informed about them. You are talking about what you know. I work for a provincial housing authority and every day see clients struggling with finding housing (both citizents and PRs). I also see a lot of sponsored PRs who do not realize that they are not eligible for subsidized housing while they are under sponsorship (and make their family ineligible).
I agree that LICOs are very low. I am just saying that family with 80 000/per year income and owing their home is in absolutely different financial position than family with the same income, but paying 1700-2000 every month for rent.
I know, it opens discussion about favoring people with more assets and it is not a Canadian way, but letting people sign the undertaking with the promise to provide for their sponsored person without even asking how they plan to do it, in my opinion is irresponsible.
Very true but unless someone owns their home outright they could need to sell at any point. You also have to look at the whole country and there is a huge difference in housing prices. I think LICO is too low just based on the housing costs. Unfortunately some are so focused on sponsoring their parents they don’t read the fine print or don’t actually budget. They may not also realize many things are not covered. I have seen families that brought their parents to Canada because they couldn’t afford daycare. Then one parent got sick so they no longer had childcare and on child had to quit their job to care for their sick parent (often the mother). They ended up in a much worse situation. Some families have been cashing in RRSPs to meet income limits or declaring income that they didn’t earn just to sponsor their parents. They don’t realize that they will need to earn more when their parents arrive. I understand that for many it is an obligation but sometimes it would make sense to pay for care in their home country at least until they can get more established. With housing costs increasing it also has become much harder for families to purchase homes especially in some areas that are popular with certain immigrant communities which used to be affordable. When parents don’t speak English or French and want to be able to have access to the comforts of home many want to live in a certain area. I also wonder if some provinces will crack down on many of these parents accessing low income senior programs like dental care that only funds a limited amount of seniors.
 

nayr69sg

Champion Member
Apr 13, 2017
1,571
679
All the talk about LICO being too low. That people might not own their home outright and have big mortgages and debt.

So here's my question @canuck78

Should PGP have criteria that favors richer applicants? Those who do own their homes outright and have no mortgage? Have incomes 3 times or more that of LICO?

If not. Then why? And if not then what is the point of talking about LICO and mortgages and how people might be stretched financially?