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Our horrible PR interview/Application Experience

lifesciences

Member
May 25, 2010
18
0
A bit of background: me -24 F (Canadian Citizen by birth, aka Sponsor)/ my husband - 28 M. We have known each other for more than 10 yrs, we used to meet during summers I spent in India every year, however, our “relationship” started when my husband came to US to pursue post graduate work in 2006. We were in a relationship for three years, before we got married (june 2010) . I moved to the US to be with him in 2009, and we have lived together since then.

Brief Timeline:

March 2010: Submitted Common Law Application for PR (Outland)
April 2010: Sponsorship application approved.
June 2010: We got married and applied for US greencard as his OPT was running out. We did not send anything to buffalo visa office as we had already applied as common law.
August 2010/Early September: letter received from the visa office saying interview has been waived, asking us to pay right to residence fee.
We don't hear from them for two months and I send an email inquiring about our status.
November, 2010: Receive a letter that we would require an interview, and the interview date is March 1st 2011.

Our interview experience:
We came to the Canadian Embassy, Buffalo at 8:00 am. Our interview is scheduled for 9 am, however does not start until 9:30. We both walk in the booth, only for the officer to tell us that I should wait outside.

Officer(white female mid 40s): Are you the sponsor?
Me: Yes
Officer: Madam, you can wait outside.
--OK. I thought they were joint interviews?”
She grilled my husband for about 2 hours and started by saying “My job is to basically tear your application apart and yours is to show that this application is genuine"

She listed reasons for denial:
1) My husband's academic records: (he is a doctor, from India) She said they were not real, because they don't “look official”.
2) Our marriage certificate: We had a civil ceremony in Maryland in June 2010. She said the original certificate from our ceremony does “not look real” because it did not have any “seal”.
3) She looked at our pictures from various events / utility bills with our names on it- same address/ events: she said, this doesn't prove any thing, it just shows you that you could be “roommates”, combining your resources, but does not the evidence of a relationship.
4) Wills: She asked why we did not have legal beneficiary wills and if we had taken any mortgage. (We are essentially “students”, and we do not have those things yet)
5) Rental Agreement: It was filled with blue ink, and she said it had to be in black ink to make it official.
6) She repeatedly asked him about why he wants to come to Canada. And when he said he wants us to settle in Canada eventually, she accused him of using me to facilitate his entry into Canada.
7) We showed her evidence of travelling together .... Combined bank accounts , same gym memberships and bills shows our names and she says “room mates, not evidence of relationship”.
8) My husband has applied for Canadian student visa in 2005 from india and was denied . Since coming to US he has been to Canada more than 15 times in the last 5 years and has been given the TRV 4 times without any issues. On the application for PR , we did not Mention that he got rejected for student visa in 2005 and she caught that too and pointed it out during the interview.
She finally told him she cant approve our application and since he already has the US green card, she does not see a need for him to immigrate to Canada. She said she will mail us a letter this week saying she does not believe we have sufficient evidence for common law partner and that she believes the relationship is a sham.

Questions:
We are planning file an immigration appeal. What are our chances?
We have a letter from them initially approving and now interviewed and denied and she told us that should we file an appeal then some one other than her would look at the file and decide.

Thanks for reading. We appreciate any comments or input.
 

Patricksgirls

Star Member
Oct 31, 2010
180
7
I would get a lawyer for the appeal. Also letters from friends and family may have helped in this situation. The appeal process is lengthy but I am interested in why she is saying that joint bills just show proof that you are room mates....
 

melbell_28

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2010
464
5
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Colombo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
4-11-2010
Doc's Request.
10-12-2010
AOR Received.
06-01-2011
File Transfer...
20-12-2010
Med's Done....
28-06-2010
honestly I think ur chances are good... do you have someone that could help u? a lawyer is a good idea. I cannot believe the visa officer was such a b**** to u guys.. so sorry.. listen, get in touch with a lawyer u know and ask them for some advice..

it doesn't matter if your husband has greencard or not, ultimately it's not the same as canadian PR and u don't get the same benefits.

please keep us updated and good luck
 

Baloo

VIP Member
Nov 30, 2009
4,879
205
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
When two parties are available interviews are usually individual - I guess it is so that CIC can cross check the replies.
However sponsors are not always interviewed, some sponsors are interviewed by telephone.

Grilling is what they do, it is their job.
The VO's comment “My job is to basically tear your application apart and yours is to show that this application is genuine" is actually a fair summary of what is happening.
Stated bluntly, but it is a good summary.

As you did not mention that your partner was rejected for a student visa in 2005, the VO will have been wondering why (way before the interview).
You are meant to provide all information, obviously a mistake on your part, but the VO may see it as misrepresentation.
A red flag most certainly - How far into the interview was this discussed?

Order your notes, wait until a refusal letter arrives and then talk to a lawyer about an appeal.
Address all the issues that are noted.

Good luck.
 

quakingaspen

Hero Member
Sep 24, 2010
536
18
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01.12.10
AOR Received.
07.03.11
File Transfer...
11.01.11
Med's Done....
16.11.10
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
12.04.11
LANDED..........
02.05.11
This is sort of a side question, but I've been wondering about it for awhile now. Is it generally better to appeal a negative decision, or to start over and reapply? Can you do that? What are the limitations? I haven't read much on this forum about people who are starting over... but then, there isn't a lot on appeals either. Which is the better course of action, if it comes to that?
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,948
Hi

quakingaspen said:
This is sort of a side question, but I've been wondering about it for awhile now. Is it generally better to appeal a negative decision, or to start over and reapply? Can you do that? What are the limitations? I haven't read much on this forum about people who are starting over... but then, there isn't a lot on appeals either. Which is the better course of action, if it comes to that?
Much better to appeal unless you can correct the reasons for the first refusal. If you don't then there will a 2nd refusal and CIC may base it on Res Judicata (It has already been decided) Especially if the first refusal is for lack of contact/knowledge of the partner. CIC/CHC will give little weight to contact/knowledge after the first refusal if the application is re-submitted.
 

Baloo

VIP Member
Nov 30, 2009
4,879
205
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
PMM said:
CIC/CHC will give little weight to contact/knowledge after the first refusal if the application is re-submitted.
On the basis that they have had time to practice their story?
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
The first thing that jumps out at me is that you guys really put yourselves at a disadvantage when you got married and did not notify the embassy that you had married. What you needed to understand was that there is a big difference between assessment of a common-law application and a spousal application. A common-law partnership, or a marriage, is what qualifies someone to be sponsored in the spouse/common-law class. When you get married, you have the certified copy of your marriage licence to prove that he is eligible to be sponsored. Marriage is a relationship established by law, so the question about whether the foreign national is an eligible applicant ends there. You are not even required to be living together to qualify as spouses! However, when you apply as common-law partners, you have to prove that you qualify in that category - that you meet the definition of common-law partners. You have to prove that you have co-habitated for at least one continuous year in a conjugal relationship. You should read through Sections 5.24-5.25, 5.34-5.35 and 5.45-5.47 of the OP2 Processing Manual so you'll know what specific information they were looking for when assessing your qualification as common-law partners. When someone initially applies as common-law partners, and then marries during processing, they need to notify the embassy of the marriage, because this ELIMINATES the need to prove common-law qualification. That was your first mistake - and the officer capitalized on that. You also threw up a red-flag because you did not tell them that you married - you made it seem that the marriage was a "stop-gap, just in case" decision . . . sort of a Plan B if the c/l qualification didn't work out. It's very possible that you didn't include sufficient and convincing evidence of your common-law qualification - and that issue would have gone away had you notified them of your marriage.

Secondly, regardless of whether a couple is applying as spouses or common-law partners, they have to include evidence with the application of the "genuine nature" of the relationship. They need to document how the relationship developed - how they first met, how things progressed, etc., - and include evidence of the ongoing nature of their relationship with phone records, emails, chat logs, trip itineraries, photos and more photos, receipts for gifts, etc. You have to prove that the relationship was not just entered into to get the foreign national into Canada. Obviously the officer was trying to make a case for this in your husband's interview.

I agree - she behaved in a very biased manner. She ignored or found fault with obvious supports of your relationship, and deliberately misinterpreted things that shouldn't have been an issue. But that's their job. I suspect this officer was probably the same woman who refused our application by ignoring instructions in the Act and Regs that dictated how she was to interpret our situation. It was two years to get to our appeal hearing, and another year of reprocessing through Buffalo after we won the appeal. But, unfortunately, you guys set yourselves up because you didn't go into this understanding the basics of what was required of you. I think you should appeal - definitely - and I think you will win at the Alternative Dispute Resolution hearing (about a year after you submit your appeal request - depending on which IAD office processes your case). But you will have to be prepared to defend the relationship the way your husband (unfortunately) wasn't. He got blindsided - and they love to do that to people. Don't let the Minister's counsel blindside you at your ADR.

It does seem to me that you should have significant evidences of a long-standing, genuine relationship. I think you just didn't understand the burden of proof you were expected to present. If you were to apply again - as spouses instead of common-law partners - prepared to submit sufficient proof of the "genuine nature" of the relationship this time, you might see an approval on a second ap . . . especially if you were to ask for the application to be processed through New Delhi rather than Buffalo. Processing timelines are faster through ND (6 months), but if they want to interview him, he'd have to travel to that embassy. And, with record of the first refusal, they would likely want to interview him a second time. Honestly, what happened to him at that interview really fries me - the things she threw at him (black ink instead of blue) and this or that doesn't "look" real . . . that's just BS!! I'd really be interested to know if he caught her name. PM me if you would, so we can compare notes! But anyway, I think you would absolutely be able to get the decision overturned in appeal - especially because there is "humanitarian and compassionate discretion" at appeal hearings that the officers in the embassies don't have (not that someone like this IO would even use it!). Either way, fight it - and I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
 

toby

Champion Member
Sep 29, 2009
1,671
104
Category........
Visa Office......
Hong Kong
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
November 2009
Med's Done....
October 2009 and 15 April 2011
Interview........
4 April 2011
Passport Req..
4 April 2011
VISA ISSUED...
7 July 2011
LANDED..........
15 July 2011
RobsLuv said:
I agree - she behaved in a very biased manner. She ignored or found fault with obvious supports of your relationship, and deliberately misinterpreted things that shouldn't have been an issue. But that's their job.
Where the Visa officer is subjective and biased, and his/her decision is overturned on appeal, is this a black mark in their file, or are they completely free to be as biased as they want without repercussions?
 

lifesciences

Member
May 25, 2010
18
0
Baloo said:
As you did not mention that your partner was rejected for a student visa in 2005, the VO will have been wondering why (way before the interview).
You are meant to provide all information, obviously a mistake on your part, but the VO may see it as misrepresentation.
A red flag most certainly - How far into the interview was this discussed?
More towards the end of the interview.
 

lifesciences

Member
May 25, 2010
18
0
RobsLuv said:
The first thing that jumps out at me is that you guys really put yourselves at a disadvantage when you got married and did not notify the embassy that you had married.
- We were under the impression that submitting information that we were "married" by law- would essentially delay the process and make it start all over again. Little did we know that it would be a red-flag. Good point though.

RobsLuv said:
Secondly, regardless of whether a couple is applying as spouses or common-law partners, they have to include evidence with the application of the "genuine nature" of the relationship. They need to document how the relationship developed - how they first met, how things progressed, etc., - and include evidence of the ongoing nature of their relationship with phone records, emails, chat logs, trip itineraries, photos and more photos, receipts for gifts, etc. You have to prove that the relationship was not just entered into to get the foreign national into Canada. Obviously the officer was trying to make a case for this in your husband's interview.
We had flight records/tickets/itinenaries spanning over 2 years.
We had hotel receipts where we stayed together on vacation.
We had provided phone records over 3 years.
We had provided emails/chat logs.
We also provided them with "statements" as to how the relationship developed from each of us.
We don't really do "gifts"- so I guess we dont have those, let alone save receipts usually.

RobsLuv said:
I agree - she behaved in a very biased manner. She ignored or found fault with obvious supports of your relationship, and deliberately misinterpreted things that shouldn't have been an issue. But that's their job. I suspect this officer was probably the same woman who refused our application by ignoring instructions in the Act and Regs that dictated how she was to interpret our situation.

She was plump with glasses- shoulder length dark hair, white obv,
 

missmini

Champion Member
Oct 6, 2009
1,777
70
Visa Office......
Amman
App. Filed.......
01-2012
Doc's Request.
05-2012 (CSQ approved)
AOR Received.
07-2012
File Transfer...
04-2012
Med's Done....
11-2011 (extended until 11-2013)
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
02-2013 (finalyyyyyy)
LANDED..........
07-2013 (DONE - thank u all :):):))
it makes me sad that u have to go through this...and how can someone say that ur papers r fake? what's her proof? also, roommates do not have common bank accounts, why would they?

if u remember her name it would b good, maybe u can make a complain...

for sure go for the appeal, never give up! write down all she noted and have counter proof for that; and when u'll re-apply try to use another office...good luck!
 

aadi

Star Member
Jun 24, 2010
70
0
Category........
Visa Office......
New delhi
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Med's Request
Dec 2011
Med's Done....
Dec 2011
Passport Req..
Dec 2011
In my opinion ur chances are really good but u need to find a good immigration lawyer.

visa officer every point is genuine except 4 & 5 these are ridiculous but didn't she warn u earlier that u have to satisfies her that ur documents are genuine.

its not at all ur fault but coz of other fraud app, genuine people like u have to suffer for nothing

I really feel sorry for u.......... find a good lawyer & screw visa officer.