not sure if my girlfriends children are Canadian Citizens

[screech339]

You wrote: "If John's father Bob did nothing, no registration, nothing, does it mean John is Canadian? NO."

My response: If the girlfriend was born in August 1977 and did nothing, no application for retention of citizenship, nothing, does it mean her children born outside Canada in 2007 and 2008 are Canadian? NO

Sure looks like apples to apples to me.

And, if the OP tells us when the girlfriend was born, whether she (if necessary) applied for retention (and whether it was approved), and when the children were born, then we'll know whether the children are Canadian citizens.

Not quite apples to apples. You are talking about the gf citizenship itself. We are talking about the children. Girlfriend's children and bob's child (john). You can't compare parent citizenship retention to children citizenship by descent.

Want to compare apple to apple? If the gf's canadian parent did nothing, is the gf automatically Canadian? YES until 28.

Still different from John's having to be registered to be Canadian as compared to gf automatically getting hers for 28 years. So your comparison is still not apple to apple. You are trying to compare parent citizenship (apple) to children citizenship (orange). Different rules / different circumstances.

As you mentioned, we can't say for sure whether gf children are Canadian or not until OP gives more details like whether the gf is still Canadian (most likely since OP said gf is Canadian) and when the children were born (before April 17, 2009 or not).

 

[Leon]

Without knowing all their birthdays, it's hard to say.

If the girlfriend was born before Feb. 15 1977, she would not have had to apply to retain her citizenship and would still have it.

If she was born between Feb. 15 1977 and April 17 1981, she would have had to apply to retain her citizenship and would have lost it if she didn't. Then again, maybe she did apply to retain it successfully.

If she was born after April 17 1981, she would not have been 28 yet at the time of the 2009 law and therefore she would have kept her citizenship without the need to retain.

So.. if she lost her citizenship because she didn't apply to retain, but her children were born before she lost it, they would be citizens but she would not.

If she didn't lose her citizenship, it would only depend on if they were born before April 17 2009. Then they would be citizens. It's possible that one of them is and the other isn't for example.

 

[Leon]

thank for the reply. last sentence does not make sense. if my child has been totally disconnected from his origin country and never been or seen that country. how can my childs child be penelized not to be Canadian. what if my son was travelling and deputized for some job elsewhere and my daughter inlaw got delivery pain and she had to deliver in that temporary resident country how can her child instead of being Canadian becomes citizen of his grandfathers (in this case me) birthplace. my brain will blow now ...mercy

The 2nd generation born abroad rule is there to protect the value of Canadian citizenship so that you don't end up with generations of overseas Canadians who have never even been to Canada.

Of course this can also effect Canadians who were born outside Canada and later happen to have children outside Canada.

If you end up having a 3rd child (son) outside Canada and this son gains citizenship based on your citizenship and later he is outside Canada on an assignment and his wife gives birth to a baby outside Canada, the baby can not inherit his citizenship because he can not pass it on. However, if his wife is Canadian, either born in Canada or naturalized, she could pass on citizenship to the baby. Or if his wife is also Canadian by descent or not Canadian at all, the baby will not have the right to Canadian citizenship. Your son could however sponsor the baby for PR and apply for citizenship for it once he is back in Canada with the child.

 

[alphazip]

If the girlfriend was born before Feb. 15 1977, she would not have had to apply to retain her citizenship and would still have it.

Not exactly. If the girlfriend was born before 1977, her birth would have had to be registered with Canadian authorities while an infant (or she could have done it herself up until 2004) for her to be a Canadian citizen. If she was not a Canadian citizen when the children were born, they would not be Canadian, no matter what year they were born. (Of course, the girlfriend would have become a Canadian citizen in 2009 if she was not one before then.)

As we can see, there's more to it than just saying: "The new citizenship descent rule doesn't apply to those born before April 17, 2009."

 

[Leon]

Not exactly. If the girlfriend was born before 1977, her birth would have had to be registered with Canadian authorities while an infant (or she could have done it herself up until 2004) for her to be a Canadian citizen. If she was not a Canadian citizen when the children were born, they would not be Canadian, no matter what year they were born. (Of course, the girlfriend would have become a Canadian citizen in 2009 if she was not one before then.)

As we can see, there's more to it than just saying: "The new citizenship descent rule doesn't apply to those born before April 17, 2009."

In this case I would assume that the girlfriend was registered as a citizen as he claims that she is a citizen and has already moved to Canada and proof of citizenship is only needed for her children and not for her. Had she never been registered, she would need proof of citizenship to live in Canada herself too.

 

[alphazip]

In this case I would assume that the girlfriend was registered as a citizen as he claims that she is a citizen and has already moved to Canada and proof of citizenship is only needed for her children and not for her. Had she never been registered, she would need proof of citizenship to live in Canada herself too.

She could well be a citizen as of April 17, 2009 and have her own citizenship card. Now her boyfriend wants to know whether the kids are also Canadian. As we all agree, it depends on dates.

 

[NLSanZLD]

Without knowing all their birthdays, it's hard to say.

If the girlfriend was born before Feb. 15 1977, she would not have had to apply to retain her citizenship and would still have it.

If she was born between Feb. 15 1977 and April 17 1981, she would have had to apply to retain her citizenship and would have lost it if she didn't. Then again, maybe she did apply to retain it successfully.

If she was born after April 17 1981, she would not have been 28 yet at the time of the 2009 law and therefore she would have kept her citizenship without the need to retain.

So.. if she lost her citizenship because she didn't apply to retain, but her children were born before she lost it, they would be citizens but she would not.

If she didn't lose her citizenship, it would only depend on if they were born before April 17 2009. Then they would be citizens. It's possible that one of them is and the other isn't for example.

The GF is born in 1976.
The kids are born in 2000 and 2002.
The GF has a Canadian Passport.

 

[screech339]

The GF is born in 1976.
The kids are born in 2000 and 2002.
The GF has a Canadian Passport.

Since the two kids were born before April 2009, they will have Canadian citizenship. The GF just need to apply for Canadian citizenship certificate for the two kids.

That is required to get SIN and health coverage, Canada passport, etc etc.

 

[NLSanZLD]

Since the two kids were born before April 2009, they will have Canadian citizenship. The GF just need to apply for Canadian citizenship certificate for the two kids.

That is required to get SIN and health coverage, Canada passport, etc etc.

Thank you for all the many replies.

It seems very straight forward now that we know the date of birth of everybody involved.

Getting proof of Canadian citizenship in the form of a certificate seems the way to go and less costly and less time consuming.
Like you said, this certificate is required for a SIN, Health Card and Canadian Travel Documents.

Thanks again, you've all been very helpful.

 

[alphazip]

Since the two kids were born before April 2009, they will have Canadian citizenship. The GF just need to apply for Canadian citizenship certificate for the two kids.

That is required to get SIN and health coverage, Canada passport, etc etc.

Again, not that simple.

1) If the gf was born in 1976, was her FATHER born (or naturalized) in Canada? (It used to be that only fathers in wedlock...or mothers out of wedlock...could pass citizenship on to their children.)
2) If so, was her birth registered with Canadian authorities at that time...or did she register her birth before 2004 (delayed registration of birth abroad)?
3) When did she get her first Canadian passport...before or after 2009?

Answers to these questions are important to determine whether your gf was a citizen before 2009 or as a result of changes to the Citizenship Act that took effect on April 17, 2009.

There's more to it than screech's simple statement that "Since the two kids were born before April 2009, they will have Canadian citizenship." In fact, if your gf just became a citizen in 2009, I'm sorry to say that the children are NOT Canadian citizens.

 

[screech339]

Again, not that simple.

1) If the gf was born in 1976, was her FATHER born (or naturalized) in Canada? (It used to be that only fathers in wedlock...or mothers out of wedlock...could pass citizenship on to their children.)
2) If so, was her birth registered with Canadian authorities at that time...or did she register her birth before 2004 (delayed registration of birth abroad)?
3) When did she get her first Canadian passport...before or after 2009?

Answers to these questions are important to determine whether your gf was a citizen before 2009 or as a result of changes to the Citizenship Act that took effect on April 17, 2009.

There's more to it than screech's simple statement that "Since the two kids were born before April 2009, they will have Canadian citizenship." In fact, if your gf just became a citizen in 2009, I'm sorry to say that the children are NOT Canadian citizens.

Let the gf apply for children certificate and find out for herself, shall we. After all there is no harm is applying. Chances are that she is Canadian because her father registered her.

 

[alphazip]

Let the gf apply for children certificate and find out for herself, shall we. After all there is no harm is applying. Chances are that she is Canadian because her father registered her.

Why is it more likely than not that her father registered her birth? Most out of country births were not registered. I would like to hear from the OP whether his gf was a citizen before April 17, 2009, the date on which many thousands of people born outside of Canada (mainly U.S. citizens) "woke up Canadian." http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123993183347727843

 

[screech339]

Why is it more likely than not that her father registered her birth? Most out of country births were not registered. I would like to hear from the OP whether his gf was a citizen before April 17, 2009, the date on which many thousands of people born outside of Canada (mainly U.S. citizens) "woke up Canadian." http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123993183347727843

Like I said, let her apply for her kids and find out for herself.

 

[Leon]

Agreed, this is not a big deal. Either her kids are Canadian in which case she will get the citizenship certificates or they are not in which case she will sponsor them for PR and then apply for citizenship for them which is a bit more work and will take a while, however not a huge problem. It's not like anyone is about to get deported here.

Her first step would be apply for their citizenship certificates. Then wait and see.

 

[alphazip]

I guess I misunderstood the original question. I thought it was (paraphrasing): the CIC "Am I Canadian" tool is being updated. Does anyone know, from asking the questions CIC would ask, whether my girlfriend's children are Canadian citizens?

So, as someone who is a citizen by descent himself, I asked those questions, in order to give the OP a correct answer.

Others, though, don't care about the "correct" answer. They simply offer generalities and say to apply for yourself and see what happens. (Though it will take $150 and a wait of up to a year to find out.)

Well, that could be the answer to anything (question: can I apply for citizenship after living in Canada for 1 year? answer: go ahead and apply and see what happens), rendering this forum rather useless.