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Not meeting residency obligation.. Travelling to Canada

S A

Newbie
Apr 23, 2018
4
0
Thanks Bule for these important infos.

Now I know for sure that if I go through any port of entry I will be reported and be sent through the process of revoking my PR status since I never had a PR card before.

I really though that IRCC doesn't do immigration investigation for PR card renewals beyond 5yrs preceding the date of the application even if they have suspicion whether you were established in Canada before that 5yrs or not.

Now, what are my options? do you have any suggestions how to tackle this issue?
 
R

rish888

Guest
Just to r
Thanks Rish for all the infos you posted.
I am in a similar situation. in fact I didn't live in Canada for 13 years but officially I am still a PR since I still have my record of landing and didn't make a request to cancel my PR. I landed in 2000 and left Canada in 2005 and never returned since then. I never applied for PR card when I left.
Now I know that probably I have 0 chance to go back to Canada just with my record of landing and not being reported. But I want to go back to Canada without making trouble, if possible, for myself.
My question is:
You suggested "Angle Inlet" avenue; what if I arrive to Canada through this town and NOT call border control and report in? What will happen when I stay in Canada for more that 2 years and apply for PR card WITHOUT reporting my entry? I know that in my PR card application, immigration is looking only to my last 5 years stay in Canada.
Will there be any consequences for my PR card application by entering Canada through a NONE checking point (crossing) and NOT reporting my entry to border control ?
Just to reiterate what others have said:

Crossing without reporting is a violation of immigration law. Don't do it.
 

sgaur

Full Member
Mar 24, 2012
24
1
Hi all

I want to know the next step about my 2 year journey of entering in Canada from US border. I need a guidance from a person who was in my situation.

I became PR in Canada on 1st August 2008. I was a minor at that time. I stayed in Canada for a month and came back to my home country. My PR card expired after 5 years. I studied in USA. I entered in Canada from US border just 2 years back. I was 23 year old at that time. The officer at border made a case against me and told me that I will get a call from border authorities with in a month. I did not get any call or any email from border authorities since 2 years.

In the mean time I got a job with a MNC. I paid taxes for last 2 years and bought property in Toronto. I could not go out of Canada as I am not having PR card. Now my 2 years to maintain my PR status with finish with in 10 days. I want to know that what should I do after completion of 2 years. Probable steps as per my understanding I am mentioning below.

Should I apply PR card as I have already completed 2 years?

OR

Call CIC to check about next step to apply for PR. But I feel that CiC will refer me to border authorities to clear a case with them. Then should I hire a lawyer or it will be a easy process as I already completed 2 years.

The suggestion in this regard will be highly appreciated from any person who was in this situation before or any person who can guide me in this case.
 

k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
8,810
2,249
Canada
Wait a few more weeks past the 730 days to allow for any dispute in counting. Then you can try to apply for a PR card.

The border officer, if they made a report, would have reported you to IRCC.

Did they give you a copy of a report form? If they did not, they may not have actually reported you.
 

harirajmohan

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Hi all
Should I apply PR card as I have already completed 2 years?
OR
Call CIC to check about next step to apply for PR. But I feel that CiC will refer me to border authorities to clear a case with them. Then should I hire a lawyer or it will be a easy process as I already completed 2 years.
Just renew PR card as you already completed 2 years. They will send the PR card if you were admitted as PR without reported. This would be the simplest way to go about it. There is no known legal issue to hire lawyer hence wait for PR card renewal outcome before you can hire lawyer.
Good luck.
 

k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
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Just renew PR. They will send the PR card if you were admitted as PR without reported. This would be the simplest way to go about it. There is no known legal issue to hire lawyer hence wait for PR card renewal outcome before you can hire lawyer.
Good luck.
This is potentially very bad advice. Every interaction with IRCC can be a reason to review a person's RO. So if you are admitted without being reported, that's good - but you can't go the next week and apply for PR, because in the application they will review your RO and see if you are in breach.

If a person is admitted without being reported for breach of RO, they need to stay in Canada and not interact with IRCC for two years before applying for a PR card. I often suggest people wait a week or two longer in case IRCC debates with you a day or two in your count.
 

sgaur

Full Member
Mar 24, 2012
24
1
Hi all

I want to know the next step about my 2 year journey of entering in Canada from US border. I need a guidance from a person who was in my situation.

I became PR in Canada on 1st August 2008. I was a minor at that time. I stayed in Canada for a month and came back to my home country. My PR card expired after 5 years. I studied in USA. I entered in Canada from US border just 2 years back. I was 23 year old at that time. The officer at border made a case against me and told me that I will get a call from border authorities with in a month. I did not get any call or any email from border authorities since 2 years.

In the mean time I got a job with a MNC. I paid taxes for last 2 years and bought property in Toronto. I could not go out of Canada as I am not having PR card. Now my 2 years to maintain my PR status with finish with in 10 days. I want to know that what should I do after completion of 2 years. Probable steps as per my understanding I am mentioning below.

Should I apply PR card as I have already completed 2 years?

OR

Call CIC to check about next step to apply for PR. But I feel that CiC will refer me to border authorities to clear a case with them. Then should I hire a lawyer or it will be a easy process as I already completed 2 years.

The suggestion in this regard will be highly appreciated from any person who was in this situation before or any person who can guide me in this case.
Wait a few more weeks past the 730 days to allow for any dispute in counting. Then you can try to apply for a PR card.

The border officer, if they made a report, would have reported you to IRCC.

Did they give you a copy of a report form? If they did not, they may not have actually reported you.



Yes they gave me a report. And officer kept a copy after taking my signatures.
 

scylla

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Yes they gave me a report. And officer kept a copy after taking my signatures.
Any chance you've changed addresses since then?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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SORRY, MUST SHOUT: WHOA

Odds are @sgaur is deemed INADMISSIBLE. There are other possibilities, but the likelihood of INADMISSIBILITY looms large.

In particular . . . @sgaur --

There is a significant probability that you are at least deemed INADMISSIBLE, and thus NOT eligible to be issued a PR card based on having been issued a 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. This appears to be the most likely situation. (In which case the days you have been spending in Canada would NOT COUNT toward compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.)

It is possible you do NOT have PR status, that there was a determination made in absentia to issue a Departure (or Removal) Order based on that report. Or a Departure Order was issued at the PoE and you misunderstood what would happen next.

It is possible a Minister's Delegate reviewed the 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility in absentia and made a determination in your favour, based on H&C reasons. This seems less likely than the other potential outcomes of the Report you were issued at the PoE two years ago.

It is also possible that CBSA/IRCC have intentionally left the Report in limbo, waiting for your next interaction, which could bode well in terms of a review of the report resulting in a favourable H&C decision.


WHAT TO DO?

YOU COULD TELEPHONE THE HELP CENTRE AND INQUIRE AS TO YOUR STATUS, USING YOUR CLIENT NUMBER. AND THEN PROCEED ACCORDINGLY BASED ON WHAT YOU LEARN.

(For example, if you learn that there is NO problem with your status, then you are GOOD to go, as in good to stay, as in OK to apply for a new PR card. CAVEAT: this seems unlikely . . . but there is perhaps a decent chance it is OK.)

OTHERWISE, REVIEW THE PARTICULAR DETAILS IN THE REPORT ITSELF. IF YOU CAN AFFORD A LAWYER, THEN SEE A LAWYER.



Longer explanation:

I entered in Canada from US border just 2 years back. I was 23 year old at that time. The officer at border made a case against me and told me that I will get a call from border authorities with in a month. I did not get any call or any email from border authorities since 2 years.

In the mean time I got a job with a MNC. I paid taxes for last 2 years and bought property in Toronto. I could not go out of Canada as I am not having PR card. Now my 2 years to maintain my PR status with finish with in 10 days. I want to know that what should I do after completion of 2 years. Probable steps as per my understanding I am mentioning below.

Yes they gave me a report. And officer kept a copy after taking my signatures.
There is NOT enough information here to clearly discern your status with confidence.

Based on what is known, as you report, THE PROSPECT OF BAD NEWS LOOMS LARGE:

It is NOT certain the news is BAD. As noted, there is NOT enough information to discern your status with confidence. BUT . . . the more likely situation is that at the LEAST you are deemed INADMISSIBLE, and NOT eligible for a PR card, and if a Departure Order has not already been issued, the best case scenario upon engaging in a transaction with IRCC or CBSA is an interview with a Minister's Delegate who will review the 44(1) Report and your situation.

Obviously, upon review the 44(1) Report would be determined to be valid in law, since it is clear there was a failure to comply with the PR Residency Obligation, and given the Report itself, time in Canada since does NOT count and thus does NOT cure the breach.

The question to be determined, then, is whether there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status.

As I noted at the beginning of this post, there are OTHER POSSIBILITIES. You may have already lost PR status. OR your status may be good . . . but the latter would depend on there having been a formal review and decision, in absentia, allowing you to retain status based on H&C reasons, which as I noted seems the least likely.


ASSESSMENT of CURRENT STATUS:

Based on what you report, what is known is that two years ago you were issued a "report," and that was a formal enough report to require recording your signature attesting to having received it.

Otherwise, "report" is a vague term. The precise kind of "report" is important, crucial in fact. Not all "reports" are created equal.

It appears you were issued a formal report by a PoE official following an examination as to compliance with the PR Residency Obligation: this appears to be a 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility. That's a BIG deal.

My guess, it was indeed a 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

You do NOT report also receiving a "DEPARTURE ORDER" (sometimes labeled a "REMOVAL ORDER"). You report a conversation in which the official stated that you would be getting a call. This suggests that at the time you were at the PoE a Minister's Delegate was not available to review the 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility. And thus you were informed that the 44(1) Report would be reviewed later, and you would be contacted for that purpose.

THIS PART IS IMPORTANT: What the official said to you orally is far, far less important than what that "report" states. The form for such a report in the Operational Manual, ENF 05 Writing 44(1) Reports, has a space for entering information as to scheduling the interview or hearing with the Minister's Delegate (which can be telephonic). So you want to look at that part of the report actually issued to you and see what it says. What it says (assuming it says something) is more important than what you recall the PoE official said verbally.

By the way, you can read more about 44(1) Reports in both ENF 05 Writing 44(1) Reports and ENF 06 Review of Reports under subsection 44(1). These can be found in links to pdf documents here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals.html



Assuming you were issued a 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation:

Again, there are other possibilities, but this seems the most likely.

If a Minister's Delegate then proceeded, in absentia, to determine the report was valid in law (which obviously it was), and decided to issue a Departure or Removal Order, essentially GAME OVER. PR status lost. Perhaps a lawyer could pursue some recourse on your behalf but I do not know what the prospects are.

If a Minister's Delegate then proceeded, in absentia, to determine the report was valid in law (which obviously it was), and decided to NOT issue a Departure Order, for H&C reasons, your status is OK. Apply for a new PR card.

BUT a rather likely scenario is that a Minister's delegate was unable to contact you to conduct the review (either telephonically or in person), and there is simply, STILL, the outstanding 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. To be reviewed at the next opportunity.

Which is NOT good news. Which means you have spent two years in Canada without getting any credit toward compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

The operative Regulation regarding this is Regulation 62(1) in the IRPA Regulations:

62 (1) Subject to [a subsequent favourable decision setting aside the report], the calculation of days [to be credited toward RO compliance] under paragraph 28(2)(a) of the Act in respect of a permanent resident does not include any day after . . . (a) a report is prepared under subsection 44(1) of the Act on the ground that the permanent resident has failed to comply with the residency obligation;

A SILVER LINING:

Even though the days in Canada since being issued the 44(1) Report do NOT count toward RO compliance, they CAN be a POSITIVE FACTOR considered in the assessment of H&C reasons. And even if there is now a negative decision, you can still appeal, and if you continue to stay in Canada those days too can be a positive factor considered by the IAD in hearing the appeal. Your age may be your ace in the hole.

One other possible good news scenario: CBSA/IRCC intentionally left the 44(1) Report in limbo until you next engaged in a transaction with either CBSA or IRCC, intending to revisit the Report on that occasion . . . in which event your staying in Canada in the meantime could now induce a kind of summary review with a favourable decision.

IN ANY EVENT -- AGAIN -- TO DO TAKE AWAY -- Contact the help centre and inquire as to your status, using your client number. This will NOT trigger anything more serious than what the situation already is. It is possible all is well, that your status is OK. Then great, apply for your PR card and proceed with your life as a Canadian.

Unfortunately I apprehend the odds are the news is NOT so good.
 
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scylla

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Yes I changed the address. But I have same telephone number. I have same email address mentioned on the papers.
Did you contact IRCC to let them know that your address had changed?
 

sgaur

Full Member
Mar 24, 2012
24
1
Did you contact IRCC to let them know that your address had changed?
Nope. But I am paying taxes last 2 years. I purchased property in Canada. IRCC will come to know my actions very easily. They always sent email. I did not receive any email also. I am a positive person and hopeful of positive outcome.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Buffalo
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Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Nope. But I am paying taxes last 2 years. I purchased property in Canada. IRCC will come to know my actions very easily. They always sent email. I did not receive any email also. I am a positive person and hopeful of positive outcome.
At this point you are either OK or you are not and missed a hearing date. You might as well apply to renew your PR card and see what happens.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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Nope. But I am paying taxes last 2 years. I purchased property in Canada. IRCC will come to know my actions very easily. They always sent email. I did not receive any email also. I am a positive person and hopeful of positive outcome.
You are making some big assumptions. Government agencies are not linked which is why people try to come into Canada via the US border on land. The onus is always on you to prove things. The government could have mailed you a letter or two and given you a copy indicating you were reported. Not sure exactly what the protocol is but the government isn’t obligated to try and find you by any means. If they try and can’t contact a person it tends move onto the next stage. Given you knew you had been reported not sure if I would have bought property without securing a valid PR card.