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No of days for PR Renewal

asyed82

Newbie
Jun 8, 2019
6
0
Hi Everyone,

I have got my PR in March 1st, 2015 and since 1st March 2015 - 8th Sept 2016 I stayed in Canada, that makes almost 500 days in total in Canada. My PR is expiring on 1st April 2020.

As per my knowledge, at least 730 days is required to maintain the Canadian PR.

1) If I move back to Canada in Aug 1st, 2019 and complete Remaining 230 days in March 2020, can I still apply for the PR renewal in March 2020?

2) Is there any possibility to renew the PR without completing the 730 Days?
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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Hi Everyone,

I have got my PR in March 1st, 2015 and since 1st March 2015 - 8th Sept 2016 I stayed in Canada, that makes almost 500 days in total in Canada. My PR is expiring on 1st April 2020.

As per my knowledge, at least 730 days is required to maintain the Canadian PR.

1) If I move back to Canada in Aug 1st, 2019 and complete Remaining 230 days in March 2020, can I still apply for the PR renewal in March 2020?

2) Is there any possibility to renew the PR without completing the 730 Days?
1) As long as you have at least 730 days of residency within the previous five year period, you can apply successfully. If you return by August 1st, it looks like you will be OK. However you may need to wait until April to apply to renew.
2) Only if you have strong H&C reasons for having remained outside of Canada. Why were you outside of Canada for so long?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,252
3,018
1) If I move back to Canada in Aug 1st, 2019 and complete Remaining 230 days in March 2020, can I still apply for the PR renewal in March 2020?
I largely agree with the posts by @scylla and @canuck78 . . . but . . .

BUT YOU ARE SERIOUSLY RUNNING DOWN THE CLOCK. AND YOU WILL BE CUTTING-IT-CLOSE, AT BEST, UNTIL AT LEAST LATER IN THE YEAR 2021.

You are cutting it so close that basically you need to return to Canada SOON and NOT LEAVE CANADA AGAIN FOR A FULL TWO YEARS.

I have got my PR in March 1st, 2015 and since 1st March 2015 - 8th Sept 2016 I stayed in Canada, that makes almost 500 days in total in Canada
If before today you have spent 499 or fewer days (almost 500 is less than 500 . . . you are cutting it so close, the precise number of days could matter) IN Canada, you will SOON be in breach of the PR Residency Obligation UNLESS you come to Canada and STAY.

There are MORE than 500 days between March 1, 2015 and September 8, 2016, so it appears you were absent from Canada in a range between 30 and 50 days during that period of time. You are cutting it so close the actual number may very much matter.

BUT in any event, assuming you have been outside Canada since September 8, 2016, AND before that you were present a total of 499 or fewer days, it appears your approach to the arithmetic involves taking some liberties tending to favour you. NOT a good idea when cutting-it-so-close. You are NOT in getting-the-benefit-of-the-doubt terrain.

REMEMBER: That beginning March 1, 2020, the days IN Canada in 2015 begin to fall out of the calculation . . . that is, they will NO longer count. After March 1, 2020 (the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed), ONLY DAYS within the previous five years will count toward meeting your PR Residency Obligation.

Since there are only 213 days between August 1, 2019 and March 1, 2020 (and this is counting February 29, 2020), you actually need to be IN CANADA, and IN CANADA to STAY, within FIVE WEEKS from today, to avoid being in breach of the RO.

And the more ugly side to this is that even if you arrive here next month, say by July 14, you will be on the cusp, at the very cutting-edge of RO compliance, for the NEXT TWO YEARS. If you arrive here AND STAY by July 14, your credit toward the RO will barely be more than 730 days and stay at that until July 14, 2021.

Leading to this:

2) Is there any possibility to renew the PR without completing the 730 Days?
As @scylla noted, ONLY if you have H&C reasons sufficient for IRCC to determine you should be allowed to retain PR status DESPITE failing to comply with the Residency Obligation.

If you arrive in Canada sometime this year (the sooner the better) and you have been absent a total of 1095 days since March 1, 2015 (thus, as your numbers indicate, if you fail to get here by around July 14), you will be IN BREACH of the RO . . . and, moreover, you will remain in breach of the RO for the NEXT TWO YEARS.

It appears you have been absent from Canada, since March 1, 2015, at least 1060 days or so. So you are indeed very seriously running out the clock . . . and if you do NOT make it before the total number of days outside Canada exceeds 1095 days, you can HOPE you are NOT reported when you do arrive to enter Canada. And if you are NOT reported, then you will need to wait TWO YEARS before applying for a new PR card (again, unless you have a good H&C case, noting that H&C cases are almost always TRICKY and typically DIFFICULT). As long as you STAY in Canada that is OK. You do NOT need a valid PR card to stay in Canada.


A FURTHER CAUTION:

Again, assuming you have been outside Canada since September 8, 2016, and was in Canada 499 or fewer days ("almost 500") prior to that, EVEN if you make it here before mid-July, since you have been absent nearly three full years there is a significant chance you could be aggressively examined about RO compliance when you arrive at the PoE. It might help to have some actual proof that you were living in Canada until September 2016. At this stage, remember, PROOF that you have in fact been present "almost 500" days may be necessary to show you are actually in compliance with the RO.
 
Last edited:

asyed82

Newbie
Jun 8, 2019
6
0
Thanks everyone for the reply,

REMEMBER: That beginning March 1, 2020, the days IN Canada in 2015 begin to fall out of the calculation . . . that is, they will NO longer count. After March 1, 2020 (the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed), ONLY DAYS within the previous five years will count toward meeting your PR Residency Obligation.

Thats means that even if I reach Canada in Mid of July, there will be a chance to be reported at the immigration, what normally happens if I got report at PoE?

Second, even I meet the RO compliance requirements, does I still need an application for the PR Renewal for the next tenure ? what will happen if I renew my driving license or health card without the new PR Card ?

third, even my PR get renewed I have to meet again 3 years requirements to get the passport..
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,252
3,018
Thanks everyone for the reply,

REMEMBER: That beginning March 1, 2020, the days IN Canada in 2015 begin to fall out of the calculation . . . that is, they will NO longer count. After March 1, 2020 (the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed), ONLY DAYS within the previous five years will count toward meeting your PR Residency Obligation.

Thats means that even if I reach Canada in Mid of July, there will be a chance to be reported at the immigration, what normally happens if I got report at PoE?

Second, even I meet the RO compliance requirements, does I still need an application for the PR Renewal for the next tenure ? what will happen if I renew my driving license or health card without the new PR Card ?

third, even my PR get renewed I have to meet again 3 years requirements to get the passport..

"That means that even if I reach Canada in Mid of July, there will be a chance to be reported at the immigration . . . ?"

During the first five years (that is, up to the fifth year anniversary of the day of landing), the easiest way to calculate whether a PR is in compliance or not is to count the number of days the PR has been outside Canada. If that number adds up to more than 1096, the PR is in breach of the Residency Obligation.

BUT even if the PR has not been outside Canada more than 1096 days, if the PR is cutting-it-close AND there is any doubt about the accuracy of the PR's account, the PR may be asked for proof. Sometimes mere information . . . an explanation as to where the PR was living and working, and the relevant dates, will suffice. But if it is practical to have in possession some documents which actually show when the PR was living at a certain address in Canada, working at a particular job IN Canada, attending a particular school in Canada, that could help convince the officer that despite cutting-it-so-close, the PR actually is in compliance.


". . . what normally happens if I got report at PoE?"

When the examining officer at the PoE issues a 44(1) Report, the PR also gets a chance to explain things to another officer, including the reasons why the PR was outside Canada so long as to not comply with the RO. If the officer accepts that the PR was really close to complying and is making a genuine effort to come to Canada to settle in Canada PERMANENTLY, there is a good chance that the second officer will make a favourable H&C decision and allow the PR to keep PR status. If in contrast the officer concludes the PR is (1) not in compliance, and (2) there are not sufficient H&C reasons to allow the PR to keep PR status, then the second officer issues a Departure Order . . . and then allows the PR to enter Canada.

The PR then has thirty days in which to appeal the 44(1) Report. Once an appeal is filed, the PR can stay in Canada, work in Canada, for as long as the appeal is pending. If the PR wins the appeal, the PR gets to keep status. If the PR loses the appeal, the PR will then need to leave Canada. Appeals can take from six or eight months to much more than a year.


"Second, even I meet the RO compliance requirements, does I still need an application for the PR Renewal for the next tenure ? what will happen if I renew my driving license or health card without the new PR Card ?"

There is no "next tenure" as such. In terms of PR status, the PR does NOT need a PR card . . . except when abroad and boarding a flight headed to Canada.

Eventually you will want to apply for and obtain a new PR card. As long as you are in fact in compliance with the PR RO, there is no problem applying for a new card except given the situation there could be some delay while IRCC looks closer at your case. Thus, for example, if as of next April, say April 21, 2020, you were IN Canada at least 730 days between April 21, 2015 and April 20, 2020, you would be in compliance with the RO and OK to apply for a new PR card.

Given how long you have been outside Canada you cannot renew your health card. While the precise requirements vary some depending on which Province is involved, you have been outside Canada so long that you do not have health care coverage now. So you will need to re-apply. Best to do that sooner rather than later, while your current PR card is still valid. Should not be a problem. (Note: even if you have a health card that has a still valid date, do NOT use it. . . . you can present it to the Province Service office when you apply for coverage again, which might help make the process go more smoothly, but be sure to be upfront about having been outside Canada.)

Technically similar for the drivers license, based on being a resident outside the Province rather than based on number of days outside the Province, but it is not like the health care card. If you have a drivers' license that is still valid on its face, probably no problem using it in the province that issued it. Should be no problem renewing it either if you are in the same Province.

Particular rules vary from Province to Province. Last I saw, for health care Ontario accepts an expired PR card to show status, as long as it has not been expired for more than three years. Personally Ontario did not ask to see a PR card when I renewed my health card or when I renewed my drivers license . . . but I am still at the very same address.

In any event, if you can get a new health card and drivers license before your current PR card expires, you should have no issues at all.

" . . . third, even my PR get renewed I have to meet again 3 years requirements to get the passport?"

To meet the CURRENT citizenship actual physical presence requirement, the PR needs to have been IN Canada at least 1095 days within the FIVE years prior to the day the application is made. That is its own five year time period. It is separate from calculating compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Of course you must be in compliance with the PR RO, but if you meet the citizenship requirements you obviously meet the RO.

Since you have been outside Canada for more than two years, there is no way for you to meet the CURRENT citizenship presence requirement for at least three years after you return to Canada. For example, if you arrive in Canada July 17, 2019 then (assuming you are not reported for a breach of the RO) you stay without leaving Canada at all, you will meet the CURRENT citizenship requirements as of July 18, 2022. At that time you will have been physically present 1095 (or 1096) days within the previous five years and thus eligible for citizenship (if you do that, WAIT awhile longer to have a margin over the minimum when you apply).

I emphasize the "CURRENT" requirements because the citizenship requirements can change.