My expriences so far ... first two days in Toronto!!!

[malmon]

Cheers!!!

 

[CharlotteJ]

Hi Charlotte,My friend arrived from Sweden 3 years ago and is very well integrated in the fairly large 50,000-60,000 Persian Community here.Together with the Chinese and Indians,They are among the richest community here in Vancouver.He was lucky he was selling shoes to wealthy Persians before moving on to a Persian owned business.Its a Private Equity firm.You have a valid point also there are people from 3rd world countries to whom Canada is a paradise.Take Filipinos,Minimum wage is like 8$ a DAY,they dont get paid for overtime.To them Canada is way better then the Philippines.Nurses get paid 350-400$ a MONTH there.Best Regards

True. I know about such people for sure. It is funny that for me also bein Persian but hardly been raised according to their traditions and from Europe for more than 2 decades, it is difficult to understand them as for them to understand me so that is why I am like a total stranger to them and am often treated like Aliens among them and quite honestly, my best friends here in Toronto, ever since I came here, are from India, Sri Lanka, Congo, Haiti, Togo, Djibouti, Ethiopia, France, Turkey and Tunesia and there is only one as last one from Iran who just like me has been living and working in Europe for much of her life, but hardly Iranians. They ask weird questions and it is in their views all about money, degree and social status and not much so who you are as a person and I disgust that because I am against the class system and treat people who cross my path equally because I want to be treated equally myself.

And I disgust people who prefer to put each and everybody into a box and never think outside of the box and again, I found out that here in Canada, people not really think out of the box, but inside it! ... very conservative, which isn't really the case in USA and sure not the case in much of EU and I am sure not even across much of Asia these days given the younger generations chaning things rapidly there ever since their economies opened up to the world and are now fasting forward to be leading the new worlds.

But Canlover is right, so many talented people here doing survival jobs for the sake of what? ... a Canadian passport?! so they can escape confilicts and wars?!

One Iranian man I met a few days ago told me that the talk of town in Iran ever since a few years is " I am moving to Canada" or " I have applied for immigration to Canada" and when you ask them why? they say " oh just for the passport" and that says enough about why Canada is so appealing to many people these days.

I had a rendez-vous with a Canadian born friend yesterday and he told me that many Canadians like him believe that those people from India or China or I don't know where who tell you "I was a doctor or a dentist in my country and now taxi driver", are just talking nonsense, because if you really were a doctor or a dentist, you could get your credentials being adapted to the Canadian standards or study for a few years and then go work as you wish in your own field, but these are people who have been pulling teeth out on the corner of a street in a poor neighbourhood or had few old surgery equipment and did treat people and cut them open in their own house and now here are taxi drivers! because they lack true degree's.

I found it quite non-sense in all honesty, but didn't say anything in return because and in the spirit of the "friendship". But yes, this is also what they mostly believe.

I myself, for years wishing to have a nose-job, know one thing for cetain: I better have an Indian or Iranian or Turkish plastic surgeon perform such on my face rather than a Dutch or a Canadian doctor! Unless I can afford going to one of those super expensive Hollywood clinics one day!

I recall that the plastic surgeon of Michael Jackson was a Jordanian or Egyptian. > please don't laugh at this comment, it wasn't his fault that MJ wanted to look like an Alien though, he was paid for his services and he did what he was asked, but go figure how good he was! and is!

Where is he by the way??? living on Planet Mars these days?!

 

[Tonucml]

So true!!!! ... We should ask ourselves what does " intergration" these days mean?

I have discovered that these numbers, rankings, bla bla bla, these days mean nothing really and is all part of a huge marketing campaign and strategie by those on power to simply distract people of the truth and draw them to a place where some people wants them to be.

Sweden, Norway and Finland are desperately looking for new immigrants and each year they are coming to these immigration events held across much of Holland or Germany seeking for Dutch or German or in my own words" white people" to come in, settle in, invest and help the workforce to grow due to reasons we all know why!

Same issue with Real Estate market across Canada! Especially in Vancouver. Lots of Chinese people have bought homes there, while they don't live there themselves! Rich people from Asia, buy homes in Vancouver and Toronto and in order to make a good profit, they have to make sure that somehow or another, there are rankings in which both cities EACH YEAR are chosen atop of the list of the most beautiful, most pretty, most desirable, most fun, most this and most that place on this planet to live, grow, educate, invest etc etc etc while we all know, when you end up here, you can tell that there are plenty far more and better places to live in and to raise your kids and to get proper education or to invest than in these two cities.

Just two days ago, again, Vancouver is chosen a top of the list of the best inhabitable place on planet followed by Toronto on number 3 of the most beautiful and place to live on this planet! I can relate to Vancouver, but honestly, I don't think Toronto does deserve to be the most beautiful city on this planet! 8)

It is all about a powerful marketing campaign out there and no less than that!

So, what would be our real thinking about Canada as new immigrant?

 

[newtone]

So, what would be our real thinking about Canada as new immigrant?

The real thinking would be Canada has very qualified dishwashers/taxi drivers/security guards/McDonalds customer service reps. Yes sir.... Nobody is uneducated here

 

[clubcanada]

@BCguy:

Take Filipinos,Minimum wage is like 8$ a DAY,they dont get paid for overtime.To them Canada is way better then the Philippines.Nurses get paid 350-400$ a MONTH there.

yeah, but in manila you pay $100-200 per month for a decent apartment compared to $1000-1500 in vancouver...

@CJ:

my best friends here in Toronto, ever since I came here, are from India, Sri Lanka, Congo, Haiti, Togo, Djibouti, Ethiopia, France, Turkey and Tunesia

your BEST friends??? I'm wondering what makes a 'friend' a friend...

@canloverdream:

Why do people on this forum get so angry anytime someone tells Canada the way it truely is?!!

noone is slamming you or getting angry for telling the truth based on your personal experience. however, it's challenging to generalize your personal experience as we all have different backgrounds, expectations, etc....

 

[clubcanada]

So, what would be our real thinking about Canada as new immigrant?

immigration is hard but if you've done your homework and set the right level of expectations properly than it's managable.
personally I believe that everybody who comes to canada voluntarily should be prepared. I've seen so many whiners and complainers telling me how bad canada is, that their degrees are not accepted, that they sent out hundreds of resumes without any feedback, and so on. no offense, but it takes two to tango.
All this information was available beforehand and infact, CIC is providing you some kind of warning that you should get proper information in regards to your job chances (including the hint to have your degrees evaluated). First of all, forums are full of warnings that you need canadian experience etc.
In addition, noone is waiting for you. The opposite is true. Ask yourself what can you bring to the table and what benefit can you provide to the canadian companies, society, etc.? for example, a masters degree in international business won't help you much in a country that makes 80% foreign trade with the US. a degree in nursery with a willingness to go back to school to take some exams is by far more promising in a country that heavily is expanding its health care system.

ANother example: if you have two evenly qualified candidates for one job position - a canadian experienced person (born and raised in canada, with a degree from a canadian uni) and a new immigrant. who would you hire? consider that you're responsible for the new hire. I guess that's a no brainer. So you need a skillset that is not available on the local market but in highly need (e.g. some IT areas, medical pract, etc.) - otherwise you have to accept to be unemployed for a longer period. dont think that will not affect you! it will!
at the same time I tell people to get an understanding of the gaming rules first (e.g. the networking). you need to accept that the rules here are different form your home country. you don't have to like them but you have to accept them and use them as everyone else does. you won't be able to change the rules. so take it or leave it...

 

[Baloo]

The real thinking would be Canada has very qualified dishwashers/taxi drivers/security guards/McDonalds customer service reps. Yes sir.... Nobody is uneducated here

I like your humour

 

[newtone]

Your welcome baloo Helloooooo!!! its the truth

 

[BCguy]

Well having visited Manila quite often,you have to define decent by what standard?For example as a percentage of income your 150$ apartment will be 40%-50% of Someone income,So lets look at a nurse who landed last year in Canada after 2 years in a Provincial Hospital in Rural Philippines Salary 12,000 Pesos a month about 275$ rental for room 1,500 pesos or 40$ ,Meals rice and 1 course 3 times a day 90$ a day,45 minute commute each day cost 45 dollars a month.clothes 30$ a month,Utilities 10$ a month,Movies going out 30$ a month.Not a whole left Ambition to be able to save up for 1 to 2 years to buy a laptop.I was his mentor and helped place him in a job in Canada First job Starting salary 35$ an hour,Yes He got his temporary nursing license before landing and I helped him get his permanent registration after he landed with CRNBC.First month bought his laptop sent 1,000$ to his mom,2nd month He bought his car.So not all so stories are sad and I spend 8-10 hours a week mentoring new Canadians for free as a volunteer.I truelly am still very proud of my Home and native land

 

[Tonucml]

immigration is hard but if you've done your homework and set the right level of expectations properly than it's managable.
personally I believe that everybody who comes to canada voluntarily should be prepared. I've seen so many whiners and complainers telling me how bad canada is, that their degrees are not accepted, that they sent out hundreds of resumes without any feedback, and so on. no offense, but it takes two to tango.
All this information was available beforehand and infact, CIC is providing you some kind of warning that you should get proper information in regards to your job chances (including the hint to have your degrees evaluated). First of all, forums are full of warnings that you need canadian experience etc.
In addition, noone is waiting for you. The opposite is true. Ask yourself what can you bring to the table and what benefit can you provide to the canadian companies, society, etc.? for example, a masters degree in international business won't help you much in a country that makes 80% foreign trade with the US. a degree in nursery with a willingness to go back to school to take some exams is by far more promising in a country that heavily is expanding its health care system.

ANother example: if you have two evenly qualified candidates for one job position - a canadian experienced person (born and raised in canada, with a degree from a canadian uni) and a new immigrant. who would you hire? consider that you're responsible for the new hire. I guess that's a no brainer. So you need a skillset that is not available on the local market but in highly need (e.g. some IT areas, medical pract, etc.) - otherwise you have to accept to be unemployed for a longer period. dont think that will not affect you! it will!
at the same time I tell people to get an understanding of the gaming rules first (e.g. the networking). you need to accept that the rules here are different form your home country. you don't have to like them but you have to accept them and use them as everyone else does. you won't be able to change the rules. so take it or leave it...

Thanks for your informative post.

 

[malmon]

immigration is hard but if you've done your homework and set the right level of expectations properly than it's managable.
personally I believe that everybody who comes to canada voluntarily should be prepared. I've seen so many whiners and complainers telling me how bad canada is, that their degrees are not accepted, that they sent out hundreds of resumes without any feedback, and so on. no offense, but it takes two to tango.
All this information was available beforehand and infact, CIC is providing you some kind of warning that you should get proper information in regards to your job chances (including the hint to have your degrees evaluated). First of all, forums are full of warnings that you need canadian experience etc.
In addition, noone is waiting for you. The opposite is true. Ask yourself what can you bring to the table and what benefit can you provide to the canadian companies, society, etc.? for example, a masters degree in international business won't help you much in a country that makes 80% foreign trade with the US. a degree in nursery with a willingness to go back to school to take some exams is by far more promising in a country that heavily is expanding its health care system.

ANother example: if you have two evenly qualified candidates for one job position - a canadian experienced person (born and raised in canada, with a degree from a canadian uni) and a new immigrant. who would you hire? consider that you're responsible for the new hire. I guess that's a no brainer. So you need a skillset that is not available on the local market but in highly need (e.g. some IT areas, medical pract, etc.) - otherwise you have to accept to be unemployed for a longer period. dont think that will not affect you! it will!
at the same time I tell people to get an understanding of the gaming rules first (e.g. the networking). you need to accept that the rules here are different form your home country. you don't have to like them but you have to accept them and use them as everyone else does. you won't be able to change the rules. so take it or leave it...

reality check...

 

[steaky]

No, not nonsense at all ???!!!! I had a friend who was a medical doctor in China. When she came to Canada for immigration, I think she had studied for years trying to continue her career as medical doctor. Unfortunately, she cannot. She is currently working as Chinese traditional doctor in Vancouver. Furthermore, I heard the man cutting meat in the local T&T supermarket used to be a university professor in China.

I had a rendez-vous with a Canadian born friend yesterday and he told me that many Canadians like him believe that those people from India or China or I don't know where who tell you "I was a doctor or a dentist in my country and now taxi driver", are just talking nonsense, because if you really were a doctor or a dentist, you could get your credentials being adapted to the Canadian standards or study for a few years and then go work as you wish in your own field, but these are people who have been pulling teeth out on the corner of a street in a poor neighbourhood or had few old surgery equipment and did treat people and cut them open in their own house and now here are taxi drivers! because they lack true degree's.

 

[BCguy]

Totally agree,Thats why they are redoing the FSW program,Canada doesnt need Doctors driving taxis.We need Carpenters working as carpenters and Nurses working as nurses.Whats the point of bringing in a foriegn nurse who cant pass the English test to get licensed?

 

[CharlotteJ]

I want to THANK you all for the great contributions and the great expertise and sharing information.

Yes, it is at times difficult to find a job here not only because of lack of Canadian job experience, but also because of language skills, that can form a barriere and also for the simple question one should ask himself or herself, like in ClubCanada's post, being the one that is hiring and you have to choose between a Canadian born Canadian (and that can be anybody with any color or background or religion etc) and studied here and a new immigrant?

I guess roughly that we have to hire the Canadian born one because it is to the benefit of the company in many ways to have somebody who can be productive as the very first hour he or she is working for the company! And that being said, this is the case anywhere else on this planet too and a whole lot worse in Europe and in my home country because I 've witnessed it first handedly, people who were greatly skilled but they couldn't write an Email and/or speak clearly so it took efforts to communicate thoroughly with them and that resulted in seeing them leave the office after a short while which was sad off course.

I myself, although I speak far better English than many I 've seen around me in the past few months, yet again, when doing temp jobs at the banks, I was quite surprised and confronted with my own communication skills! It might take me a few years to land to the level where I fluently will be speaking and corresponding with others as a native speaker. This was also one of the factors in my decision making to go back.

But it is all about one thing: ... the whole immigration process and selection process in this country should now be questioned and renewed as to totally adjusted to the needs of this nation. There are plenty of skilled IT people graduated from Canadian universities looking for jobs and a lot more engineers, doctors, this and that too who are here, who were born here, who studied here and need a job and so why does Canada allow more of such to this country when they should know that this is not helping any of the both groups?

They both will find jobs eventually.

First group finds a job at an entry level or medium level in his/her own field after some time due to reasons ClubCanada pointed at.

Second group finds a job at an entry level or medium level in another field as his/her own doing something totally different like taxi driver/dishwasher/busser/server/host(ess) etc etc.

I went to CN Tower yesterday to say goodbye to my 6 months Canadian job/life experience. Sad but also happy at the same time. Not much fun anyway.

The server was from South Asia and although I didn't ask him, yet again, I can tell that he was NOT just any server! He was young, ambitious and kind and I could notice he was not really enjoying his job but had to accept his fate and who knows, maybe he was an immigrant too?! I felt even more sad as I could intuitively notice him being able to do far better than playing a nice friendly server who took time to speak about architecture with us and on a level that I can tell wasn't average being a huge Architecture fan myself!

A lot of such people sacrifice their youth, wealth, livelihood and all to make it to Canada on quite a lot of false promises as to end up in a far lower level and doing hard labour for little pay starting from scratch and go from there and I wonder: is it really worth it? ... you only live once, you only have ONE LIFE!

If you have a good job at this moment, matching your skills and your living standards can allow it to be happy and comfortable with life, don't throw it away that easily. You are not going to be given back the years you are going to loose building up life from scratch to get to the same level in like 5 to 6 years unless you are at your early 20's but older than 30?! just think twice or else, forget it.

They need plumbers, carpenters, nurses, electricians, mechanics and all of similars here, but sure not 250.000 engineers, doctors, IT profs., teachers, this and that in this country EACH YEAR!

We live in different times now, Canada anno 2011 is by far not like Canada anno 1979 or 1982!

Toronto now is a big busy city with a vibrant financial institutions and already an established elite who rules everything and not anymore just a provincial capital where something a bit better was happening, it is now really truly the center of everything in this country and that being said, same for Vancouver, Calgary and other major cities that each have become a new hub and we live in times where agriculture, rural life style and all is diminishing and disappearing rapidly and faster than we can expect attracting everybody with any skills and far more skills than a new immigrant to the big city and where competition will increase not by day, but minutes!

I decided to go back to a place where at least there is some place for all to live and to grow and not to a place where half of the planet seems to head for!

I wonder how on Earth, this country, Canada is going to deal with this huge influx of new immigrants each year given the wish of zillions these days from everywhere to come over here and as we speak and we see more wars and conflicts unfold across North Africa and the Middle East, you go and figure and ask yourself this question:

Do you think that the Netherlands, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Spain, UK and Ireland will allow all those poor people who are now running away from this new world order unfolding across North Africa which is going to be getting even worse as the 170 years contracts with the dictators has come to end and there is time to change the whole map of the world, to enter their borders, settle in and get a safe haven and a better life there?

NO WAY!!!! : Off course not! ... UK and Ireland is running empty by itself as many of them face unemployment and austerity measures!!!! and heading for Canada and USA. ... USA is doing any better itself and many of them heading for Canada.

South America the same, a lot of the nations there have become such hostile places to live that all those who are NOT violent or deal in drugs and crime and want to have a real good decent life, worthy living, are leaving it and head for USA and as there are no jobs in USA, so head for Canada.

Africa: you go and figure yourself!

Asia: same situation ... China is doing it just fine now, but forget human rights, animal rights, anything that comes with and requires "rights" is a word that has no definition in that country and so, no wonder many of them, especially from mainland are moving out to seek 'rights" in other places.

Do they go to India? ... NO!

Do they go to Japan? ... hell NO!

Do they come to Europe? ... eehhmmmm...let's see, are they allowed to be truly a Chinese in Denmark or Switzerland? hahahahaha. ..don't make me laugh at loud. YES and NO! ... they are not allowed to speak Chinese among each other at work place, exclude themselves from the rest, live in Ghetto's and buy it all up and so, the computer says: NO! They can, but a Chinese shall not forget his roots and so, where can they go to? ... CANADA off course!

Do they go to New Zealand? or Australia? yes, maybe, some of them, but it is so far away from everything else, that they can't make money and we all know that Chinese are the best traders on this planet and they need somebody who does offset their products and if you are limited to small nations with limited resources and/or a culture that doesn't buy everything and is not consuming madly as if they have eternal life and where the cost of shipping your goods or having it being posted to you by air and/or sea or land will take ages and lots of money, then better be in Canada! or USA.

USA is still not much out of recession and dealing with dillema's and so, skip it and go to Canada!

And where Chinese head, the rest of Asia that is familiar with their traditions and can relate to them as neighbor will head for too.

Middle East, another story and a fun one on itself! ... Europe is not buying into their "refugee" and "asylum seeking" statuses anymore, they don't care much about Middle East anymore and so, they know they will face harsh times there and they are people who dislike limitations like Chinese! Where do they head for? USA or Canada, why? they have zillions of family members, friends, etc who already live there and where among the first immigrants back in times where Communist China was dealing with closed doors and where Russia was still famous for its Iron Walls and Beton Curtains! together with much of the Eastern European countries, where life was not good enough, they could get themselves to Europe and from Europe to North America and still to this day, much of Eastern Europeans, Russians and Middle East people rather lives in Canada and USA where they can hold onto their traditions and culture but also be free people and study and get degrees, but also a place where there is enough space for their loved ones to come and live with them, because that is not a case across France, NL, Belgium, UK and the rest. Homes are smaller, neighbours gossip and talk and complain, government is overregulating the rules and all and you go figure where they head for now even USA is no longer the heaven on Earth? > CANADA!

Now, we have North African nations being added to the long list and these are countries where the youth does take the risks of sharks and the Mediterranian sea to cross the sea and get itself to Spain and Italy, Malta, Canaries and all where they face horrible living conditions, no jobs, no education, NO REALLY NOTHING! and I can tell you being an European, that they live in terrible living conditions packed in refugee camps that are similar to Gulaks and Auschwitz except for the chimney's as the scortching sun, drought, famine and voilence among them does the job! blame the nature ....

So, where do they head for? CANADA!

Turkey is a whole different story. I can tell it is by far a heaven on Earth when you compare their lives with many of the people and nations bordering them.

If they do leave their country, it is because of "trade" and "study" or if they are Kurdish or Christian, we can all figure why they leave. But I also know Kurdish people in Turkey as well as Christians Turks who are just fine living in big cities and enjoy life there and I really want to see Turkey join the EU, because it is a VERY rich nation, the government there can really contribute a lot to the well being of the whole union and why would you live in a cold boring Finnish village where you can work and live on Turkish riviera? where noone sleeps?! there is a 24/7 economy and there isn't a Church that says: Shops, you all close at 6 and do not think of opening your doors on Sunday!

So, if a Turk moves to Canada or USA or Europe, it is for reasons we don't know, I would not really understand and know and don't need to, it is I suppose one of the few places left on this planet where there shall not be a conflict or war and what so ever for the coming 200 years! Unless they join the EU and gosh, I can imagine how much misery they shall face when suddenly, the entire Sinai desert and the mountanious regions all along the route from Africa and Iran plus Caucasus will become a trading route with hotels, hostels, smugglers, this and that and perhaps banks and all to accomodate all the immigrants who should enter Turkey as to enter EU and then head for UK and then to CANADA! ... They won't stay in Turkey, they won't stay in Greece and forget Bulgaria and Romania or Slovenia and Czech Rep. etc. They will keep travelling until they face the Atlantic and then cross it over somehow or another.

Japan? ... ah ... nope ... they are just fine the way it is, nobody harsm them, they harm nobody. IF you want to harm them, don't buy Toyota and Nissan, even then, they will come up with a new product as to maintain their lives and stay where they are. They are ageing, their language is difficult to learn, is always shaking! and I have heard they can be pretty racist too! Never been there, so I don't know.

Australia? ... almost the same, but farther south, facing racism related violence and conflicts in the past and these days, a much worse problem, mother nature playing harsh on them. Still a lovely place to live and work, I envy them! ;D but I don't know ... there are people who choose for Australia as it is a common wealth nation so they can reach out farther for " CANADA".

So...

That was my opinion and only mine, with all due respect off course. Not willing to offend anybody here.

But yep, if there is only one place where 80% of Planet Earth's Population these days can think of a better place to live in, it will be Canada.

1. strong financial institutions and stable reliable banking system
2. great education and high quality universities
3. European style social security system and a neat decent safety net
4. space, enough of it to even provide housing to entire USA and ...
5. good infrastructure
6. close to Europe, very close to USA and moderate climate, winters these days are even warmer than in Europe
7. English language + a bit of French! ;D
8. ?
9.?
10. ?

Anyway ... that is why I think Canada is going to be facing difficulties if they don't think twice and change the selection system or else, it will be not much of a fun place to choose for either.

Where shall we then head to?

Antarctica? North Pole? Norway? Russia????? .. hmmm... Russia seems to be large enough for all of us and also planet Mars inhabitants!

or we can head for Sahara or Gobi desert, LOTS AND LOTS OF SPACE!

... ah well ...

I am going back. Who cares! ... I am I guess, I was I guess, fortunate enough and spoiled enough to have chosen for something wasn't right for me and not meant for me. I will be fine in the Netherlands, know the language and speak it fluently and with no accent, have 18 years of excellent records and 15 years of job experience, a 3 bedroom house, a company car that comes for free + unlimited mileage for private use + €100 extra a month as "thank you for choosing this little A-label green Fiat Punto 2011!" and a small village, local products, no chemicals and in 20 minutes I will be in Amsterdam using a high speed train that is like first class luxuary in comparison to the Canadian equivalent, and an even better high speed train to Paris and/or Zurich, Lyon, Madrid, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Brussels and London, UK. or just drive, 5 hours max to Paris. shorter than from Toronto to Montreal and if you want to use your gas and engine, drive on Deutsche Autobahn! driving safely off course lol

...

I do leave and provide space to somebody from a conflict nation to come over here and settle in because I do now think: he or she deserves it more than I do!

So long people..

Love you all,

Thank you for your patience with me,

Good luck and much of it for you all ...


" my wish will be: let's all go back to our own nations, be of an example, affect and that way change our own surroundings and make sure our own countries become a better place for all to live so nobody will need to seek for refuge or immigration to ONLY ONE PLACE that might not be worth it. I go back as to be sharing my experiences here with the entire village and that village with other villages and create a chain and so if next time, I hire an Afghani girl who was working very hard but was not speaking properly Dutch, not only me, but all of us at work, will help her improve her language skills and so to keep her at work and not to come back to work next day and I hear: she is fired! here, this is Angelique, your new colleague!"

" I go back to make my place a better place"

 

[Tonucml]

I want to THANK you all for the great contributions and the great expertise and sharing information.

Yes, it is at times difficult to find a job here not only because of lack of Canadian job experience, but also because of language skills, that can form a barriere and also for the simple question one should ask himself or herself, like in ClubCanada's post, being the one that is hiring and you have to choose between a Canadian born Canadian (and that can be anybody with any color or background or religion etc) and studied here and a new immigrant?

I guess roughly that we have to hire the Canadian born one because it is to the benefit of the company in many ways to have somebody who can be productive as the very first hour he or she is working for the company! And that being said, this is the case anywhere else on this planet too and a whole lot worse in Europe and in my home country because I 've witnessed it first handedly, people who were greatly skilled but they couldn't write an Email and/or speak clearly so it took efforts to communicate thoroughly with them and that resulted in seeing them leave the office after a short while which was sad off course.

I myself, although I speak far better English than many I 've seen around me in the past few months, yet again, when doing temp jobs at the banks, I was quite surprised and confronted with my own communication skills! It might take me a few years to land to the level where I fluently will be speaking and corresponding with others as a native speaker. This was also one of the factors in my decision making to go back.

But it is all about one thing: ... the whole immigration process and selection process in this country should now be questioned and renewed as to totally adjusted to the needs of this nation. There are plenty of skilled IT people graduated from Canadian universities looking for jobs and a lot more engineers, doctors, this and that too who are here, who were born here, who studied here and need a job and so why does Canada allow more of such to this country when they should know that this is not helping any of the both groups?

They both will find jobs eventually.

First group finds a job at an entry level or medium level in his/her own field after some time due to reasons ClubCanada pointed at.

Second group finds a job at an entry level or medium level in another field as his/her own doing something totally different like taxi driver/dishwasher/busser/server/host(ess) etc etc.

I went to CN Tower yesterday to say goodbye to my 6 months Canadian job/life experience. Sad but also happy at the same time. Not much fun anyway.

The server was from South Asia and although I didn't ask him, yet again, I can tell that he was NOT just any server! He was young, ambitious and kind and I could notice he was not really enjoying his job but had to accept his fate and who knows, maybe he was an immigrant too?! I felt even more sad as I could intuitively notice him being able to do far better than playing a nice friendly server who took time to speak about architecture with us and on a level that I can tell wasn't average being a huge Architecture fan myself!

A lot of such people sacrifice their youth, wealth, livelihood and all to make it to Canada on quite a lot of false promises as to end up in a far lower level and doing hard labour for little pay starting from scratch and go from there and I wonder: is it really worth it? ... you only live once, you only have ONE LIFE!

If you have a good job at this moment, matching your skills and your living standards can allow it to be happy and comfortable with life, don't throw it away that easily. You are not going to be given back the years you are going to loose building up life from scratch to get to the same level in like 5 to 6 years unless you are at your early 20's but older than 30?! just think twice or else, forget it.

They need plumbers, carpenters, nurses, electricians, mechanics and all of similars here, but sure not 250.000 engineers, doctors, IT profs., teachers, this and that in this country EACH YEAR!

We live in different times now, Canada anno 2011 is by far not like Canada anno 1979 or 1982!

Toronto now is a big busy city with a vibrant financial institutions and already an established elite who rules everything and not anymore just a provincial capital where something a bit better was happening, it is now really truly the center of everything in this country and that being said, same for Vancouver, Calgary and other major cities that each have become a new hub and we live in times where agriculture, rural life style and all is diminishing and disappearing rapidly and faster than we can expect attracting everybody with any skills and far more skills than a new immigrant to the big city and where competition will increase not by day, but minutes!

I decided to go back to a place where at least there is some place for all to live and to grow and not to a place where half of the planet seems to head for!

I wonder how on Earth, this country, Canada is going to deal with this huge influx of new immigrants each year given the wish of zillions these days from everywhere to come over here and as we speak and we see more wars and conflicts unfold across North Africa and the Middle East, you go and figure and ask yourself this question:

Do you think that the Netherlands, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Spain, UK and Ireland will allow all those poor people who are now running away from this new world order unfolding across North Africa which is going to be getting even worse as the 170 years contracts with the dictators has come to end and there is time to change the whole map of the world, to enter their borders, settle in and get a safe haven and a better life there?

NO WAY!!!! : Off course not! ... UK and Ireland is running empty by itself as many of them face unemployment and austerity measures!!!! and heading for Canada and USA. ... USA is doing any better itself and many of them heading for Canada.

South America the same, a lot of the nations there have become such hostile places to live that all those who are NOT violent or deal in drugs and crime and want to have a real good decent life, worthy living, are leaving it and head for USA and as there are no jobs in USA, so head for Canada.

Africa: you go and figure yourself!

Asia: same situation ... China is doing it just fine now, but forget human rights, animal rights, anything that comes with and requires "rights" is a word that has no definition in that country and so, no wonder many of them, especially from mainland are moving out to seek 'rights" in other places.

Do they go to India? ... NO!

Do they go to Japan? ... hell NO!

Do they come to Europe? ... eehhmmmm...let's see, are they allowed to be truly a Chinese in Denmark or Switzerland? hahahahaha. ..don't make me laugh at loud. YES and NO! ... they are not allowed to speak Chinese among each other at work place, exclude themselves from the rest, live in Ghetto's and buy it all up and so, the computer says: NO! They can, but a Chinese shall not forget his roots and so, where can they go to? ... CANADA off course!

Do they go to New Zealand? or Australia? yes, maybe, some of them, but it is so far away from everything else, that they can't make money and we all know that Chinese are the best traders on this planet and they need somebody who does offset their products and if you are limited to small nations with limited resources and/or a culture that doesn't buy everything and is not consuming madly as if they have eternal life and where the cost of shipping your goods or having it being posted to you by air and/or sea or land will take ages and lots of money, then better be in Canada! or USA.

USA is still not much out of recession and dealing with dillema's and so, skip it and go to Canada!

And where Chinese head, the rest of Asia that is familiar with their traditions and can relate to them as neighbor will head for too.

Middle East, another story and a fun one on itself! ... Europe is not buying into their "refugee" and "asylum seeking" statuses anymore, they don't care much about Middle East anymore and so, they know they will face harsh times there and they are people who dislike limitations like Chinese! Where do they head for? USA or Canada, why? they have zillions of family members, friends, etc who already live there and where among the first immigrants back in times where Communist China was dealing with closed doors and where Russia was still famous for its Iron Walls and Beton Curtains! together with much of the Eastern European countries, where life was not good enough, they could get themselves to Europe and from Europe to North America and still to this day, much of Eastern Europeans, Russians and Middle East people rather lives in Canada and USA where they can hold onto their traditions and culture but also be free people and study and get degrees, but also a place where there is enough space for their loved ones to come and live with them, because that is not a case across France, NL, Belgium, UK and the rest. Homes are smaller, neighbours gossip and talk and complain, government is overregulating the rules and all and you go figure where they head for now even USA is no longer the heaven on Earth? > CANADA!

Now, we have North African nations being added to the long list and these are countries where the youth does take the risks of sharks and the Mediterranian sea to cross the sea and get itself to Spain and Italy, Malta, Canaries and all where they face horrible living conditions, no jobs, no education, NO REALLY NOTHING! and I can tell you being an European, that they live in terrible living conditions packed in refugee camps that are similar to Gulaks and Auschwitz except for the chimney's as the scortching sun, drought, famine and voilence among them does the job! blame the nature ....

So, where do they head for? CANADA!

Turkey is a whole different story. I can tell it is by far a heaven on Earth when you compare their lives with many of the people and nations bordering them.

If they do leave their country, it is because of "trade" and "study" or if they are Kurdish or Christian, we can all figure why they leave. But I also know Kurdish people in Turkey as well as Christians Turks who are just fine living in big cities and enjoy life there and I really want to see Turkey join the EU, because it is a VERY rich nation, the government there can really contribute a lot to the well being of the whole union and why would you live in a cold boring Finnish village where you can work and live on Turkish riviera? where noone sleeps?! there is a 24/7 economy and there isn't a Church that says: Shops, you all close at 6 and do not think of opening your doors on Sunday!

So, if a Turk moves to Canada or USA or Europe, it is for reasons we don't know, I would not really understand and know and don't need to, it is I suppose one of the few places left on this planet where there shall not be a conflict or war and what so ever for the coming 200 years! Unless they join the EU and gosh, I can imagine how much misery they shall face when suddenly, the entire Sinai desert and the mountanious regions all along the route from Africa and Iran plus Caucasus will become a trading route with hotels, hostels, smugglers, this and that and perhaps banks and all to accomodate all the immigrants who should enter Turkey as to enter EU and then head for UK and then to CANADA! ... They won't stay in Turkey, they won't stay in Greece and forget Bulgaria and Romania or Slovenia and Czech Rep. etc. They will keep travelling until they face the Atlantic and then cross it over somehow or another.

Japan? ... ah ... nope ... they are just fine the way it is, nobody harsm them, they harm nobody. IF you want to harm them, don't buy Toyota and Nissan, even then, they will come up with a new product as to maintain their lives and stay where they are. They are ageing, their language is difficult to learn, is always shaking! and I have heard they can be pretty racist too! Never been there, so I don't know.

Australia? ... almost the same, but farther south, facing racism related violence and conflicts in the past and these days, a much worse problem, mother nature playing harsh on them. Still a lovely place to live and work, I envy them! ;D but I don't know ... there are people who choose for Australia as it is a common wealth nation so they can reach out farther for " CANADA".

So...

That was my opinion and only mine, with all due respect off course. Not willing to offend anybody here.

But yep, if there is only one place where 80% of Planet Earth's Population these days can think of a better place to live in, it will be Canada.

1. strong financial institutions and stable reliable banking system
2. great education and high quality universities
3. European style social security system and a neat decent safety net
4. space, enough of it to even provide housing to entire USA and ...
5. good infrastructure
6. close to Europe, very close to USA and moderate climate, winters these days are even warmer than in Europe
7. English language + a bit of French! ;D
8. ?
9.?
10. ?

Anyway ... that is why I think Canada is going to be facing difficulties if they don't think twice and change the selection system or else, it will be not much of a fun place to choose for either.

Where shall we then head to?

Antarctica? North Pole? Norway? Russia????? .. hmmm... Russia seems to be large enough for all of us and also planet Mars inhabitants!

or we can head for Sahara or Gobi desert, LOTS AND LOTS OF SPACE!

... ah well ...

I am going back. Who cares! ... I am I guess, I was I guess, fortunate enough and spoiled enough to have chosen for something wasn't right for me and not meant for me. I will be fine in the Netherlands, know the language and speak it fluently and with no accent, have 18 years of excellent records and 15 years of job experience, a 3 bedroom house, a company car that comes for free + unlimited mileage for private use + €100 extra a month as "thank you for choosing this little A-label green Fiat Punto 2011!" and a small village, local products, no chemicals and in 20 minutes I will be in Amsterdam using a high speed train that is like first class luxuary in comparison to the Canadian equivalent, and an even better high speed train to Paris and/or Zurich, Lyon, Madrid, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Brussels and London, UK. or just drive, 5 hours max to Paris. shorter than from Toronto to Montreal and if you want to use your gas and engine, drive on Deutsche Autobahn! driving safely off course lol

...

I do leave and provide space to somebody from a conflict nation to come over here and settle in because I do now think: he or she deserves it more than I do!

So long people..

Love you all,

Thank you for your patience with me,

Good luck and much of it for you all ...


" my wish will be: let's all go back to our own nations, be of an example, affect and that way change our own surroundings and make sure our own countries become a better place for all to live so nobody will need to seek for refuge or immigration to ONLY ONE PLACE that might not be worth it. I go back as to be sharing my experiences here with the entire village and that village with other villages and create a chain and so if next time, I hire an Afghani girl who was working very hard but was not speaking properly Dutch, not only me, but all of us at work, will help her improve her language skills and so to keep her at work and not to come back to work next day and I hear: she is fired! here, this is Angelique, your new colleague!"

" I go back to make my place a better place"

very long post. I am so tired after reading this post. Thanks buddy for this authentic post. I think it would be harmful for others. That would be better if you keep silent yourself regarding this matter. Cheers