My expriences so far ... first two days in Toronto!!!

[caribgrl55]

Chharlotte, I think I have a better idea as to why you have decided to leave, however, I don't know what the exact breaking point was. It seems that a single event caused a complete change of heart. I'm sorry that you have been really sad for the past couple days, however, I'm glad that you are looking forward to moving back, and I wish you luck with that. I agree that things for immigrants are not easy, and you have to sacrifice a lot initially, but there are those who would never go back to where they are from, and have found success and happiness in whatever province in Canada. Everybody faces different situations, and I would never say one way is 100% correct, and one is 100% wrong.

Hopefully at least, people who have read your story may learn from your experiences, and possible may make different choices because of that. Some might decide that, maybe they are better off where they are, and others might just be more determined to succeed in their new home.

What does your bf think about all this?

 

[CharlotteJ]

Thanks Caribgirl.

He wants to stay here, but also is confused a bit as he too realizes the more so each day that maybe he won't be better off here although we try as much as possible NOT to compare life and living standards here with that of back in Europe.

And believe me, I am not home sick! I do not miss the house in NL and not even my neighbors and the few friends I have back there, not even commuting and all that daily aspects of life, I only miss my Mother and her cooking but also am kind of prepared for the same stories being told each and every day again to the point I sometimes do not pick up the phone when she calls me and had rather that she could be here and see it for herself to change her views of life.

But I myself, can not get used to live in an Old Colonial Lifestyle and Class System which is the main reason why I do go back.

Those who stay here, who come here and find happiness have different point of views and a total different approach towards life and in most cases they have not done or seen things I have done and perhaps not spoken to people and read stuff and observed things the way an intelect like me will do.

I am sure this place is not the right place to be wasting my energy at and certainly not worthy living the life we all get only "once"!

" We all live only once, make sure you live it right so that "once" is enough" by Mae West

And THAT is what I am going to do.

If I have some time to spend after work, I better go to Louvre and/or Van Gogh or Pergamon or British Museum to learn something, than heading for the Mall and hang out there, shop things I don't need, eat in USA processed food full of chemicals that will only make me more fat, ugly and lazy and be happy I am living in a free society!

No Way!

NOT ME Sir! Not me!

 

[Naija Pikin]

Chharlotte, I think I have a better idea as to why you have decided to leave, however, I don't know what the exact breaking point was. It seems that a single event caused a complete change of heart. I'm sorry that you have been really sad for the past couple days, however, I'm glad that you are looking forward to moving back, and I wish you luck with that. I agree that things for immigrants are not easy, and you have to sacrifice a lot initially, but there are those who would never go back to where they are from, and have found success and happiness in whatever province in Canada. Everybody faces different situations, and I would never say one way is 100% correct, and one is 100% wrong.

Hopefully at least, people who have read your story may learn from your experiences, and possible may make different choices because of that. Some might decide that, maybe they are better off where they are, and others might just be more determined to succeed in their new home.

What does your bf think about all this?

I totally agree with you.

 

[jamesbond]

CJ it's too bad you failed to integrate in Canada. But I am really glad to see you didn't give up and decided to move on with your life.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger
I think one of the reasons you couldn't integrate is the lack of Canadian education/work experience. I am pretty sure you made a lot of research before coming to Canada.
I know people who tried to work as professionals upon arriving in Canada but failed to secure a job and had to go to college to get a Canadian degree.
Btw, you compare Canada to US as if US is a much better place. Most of the times you work on the minimum wage in Toronto, right? That's 10.25 if I am not mistaking. I want to see you coming to US and work for 7$/hour to feel the difference. I guess my point is that the grass is greener on the other side all the time. There are a million things to say when you compare countries: salaries, taxes, housing, social services, standard of living, education lots and lots and lots of stuff.
For you, coming from one of the best rated countries to live in EU was probably not easy. However, it doesn't mean that it will be easier for somebody from India.
My point is: before doing a big step in your life, do your home work. Don't expect unrealistic things, prepare, adapt and so on.

Good luck.

 

[clubcanada]

@CharlotteJ :
I gotta admit that I'm surprised reading that you're leaving since you just have started a new job. What happened?

Reading through your posts i understand that you're quite a person thinking in black/white only. on one hand you glorify canada and slam europe and then suddenly you reverse it. I'm also from western continental europe and i'm able to comment on what you've been writing. There's quite a lot of truth what you write about europe and canada but there's also quite a lot of bullenkacke. canada and western europe are quite similar in many ways. So I agree that the level of change for europeans coming to canada is very limited.
canada is not such a bad place to live and not as much discriminating as you describe it. there's a clear line between social classes and cultures in canada and it's basically the same in europe, too.

in some aspects, europe isnt as great as you say in regards to immigrants/foreigners. you know as good as I do, what's been going on in holland over the last 5-10 years. the country used to be very tolerant and liberal but has changed dramatically after van Gogh's assassination. Or as a non-caucasian you'd better do not move to eastern germany. so stop glorifying/slamming europe or canada when you know only a part of the whole story...

people are much more open to different cultures than in europe - simply because of the underlying diversity. You've only experienced toronto, so how can you do a judgement about canada as a whole?
There're some things that still surprise me here in canada. and there're other things that i really question. it is as it is. you've to accept it. it is the same thing back in your home country. people tend to accept it easier because there's no place to 'go back'.

I think at the end it's all about expectations. In your case it seems your expectations have not been fulfilled. maybe you came with the wrong expectations right from the start. So think and make sure you dont do the same mistake and return to holland with wrong expectations...

 

[PG]

Well it depends from which angle you want to see.

The wave of anti-immigrant sentiments was hitting Europe last year, not only in Holland, Germany or France but also in Spain. On the other hand we all heard about Quebec's no multi culti propaganda. I don't think that similar incidence of the notorious prohibition of Alberta disco entry to few dark colored guys happens in Europe.

Europe has a huge population and highly qualified or trained manpower. Either its salary or the markets, everything looks like controlled.
Definitely life for the people with immigrant background is not so easy in Europe unless you have good language skill. But the "type of immigrants" in continental Europe is completely different than Canada. Here is also two types of society, categorized based on the education or also to some extent by wealth.

In my view life is slower and easier in continental Europe than in Canada, but there is a limit in most of the Europe for average citizen or immigrants. Basic life is better ensured than anywhere else but people who want to "grow" may find some hurdles.

On the other hand, if you see the websites or even read some news/reports you can easily realize Canada is "Brokers Paradise" as I had mentioned before.

I have two friends, one studied Masters in Business Management in Brussels and another did his business education in Vancouver. The guy who did in Brussels is already a project director in London where the one in Vancouver is still in survival jobs probably because of the lack of Canadian experience.

Rest of the world says Globalization and Canada probably thinks foreign experience is useless. It depends on which country is in what status in which field. If their is good demand then people are always welcomed, like the oil workers recruited for Alberta from Gulfs.

Many things come to the luck. One of my friend who left EU for working in the US says he always misses the relaxed and easy accessible life of Europe. I think none of the country is perfect in the world. We have to be enough lucky to find what we really want to have and also to have the friends and relatives around to make the life enjoyable.

One good thing in Canada is that you can go to college at 50 years age but setting in career for the people above 30 is hard in most of EU.

Immigration and settlement is very critical issue and needs a lot of time, luck and sacrifice to be successful. People in third world say its the second generation who benefits the immigration probably not the immigrant generation itself.

 

[clubcanada]

@PG: trust me - canada is quite similar to western europe in many ways. QC and France do not just share a common language and the british handwritten heritage across rest of canada is very obvious.

On the other hand we all heard about Quebec's no multi culti propaganda. I don't think that similar incidence of the notorious prohibition of Alberta disco entry to few dark colored guys happens in Europe.

I wouldnt underestimate nor overestimate these aspects. however, you need to bring this into the correct context. as a stand-alone comment it is misleading. neither is QC against multi-culture nor are club owners in AB racists.

I have two friends, one studied Masters in Business Management in Brussels and another did his business education in Vancouver. The guy who did in Brussels is already a project director in London where the one in Vancouver is still in survival jobs probably because of the lack of Canadian experience.

Or because he is in the wrong city... as there's not much business/industry in vancouver. just go to job portals and count the number of open office positions in and around vancouver. the number of management positions is very limited and very hard to get - especially for recent grads from foreign countries. lack of canadian experience might be an additional factor but from my POV it's secondary. the place to get a management or business related position is GTA (toronto) and GMA (montreal). in the latter case you'd better be bi-lingual though. I guess the best strategy is to go to a school in GTA and then start working in GTA as this provides you the best network....

Rest of the world says Globalization and Canada probably thinks foreign experience is useless. It depends on which country is in what status in which field. If their is good demand then people are always welcomed, like the oil workers recruited for Alberta from Gulfs.

I wouldnt say useless. However, as almost 80% of exports go to the US the need for international experience is quite limited in canada. keep in mind canada has almost no large multi-national corporations with excessive exports such as germany ...

 

[qwerbilzak]

What a sad and stunning turnaround. Going from being one of the most optimistic people on all these forums who was an inspiration to us all, to hating on the place and actually accusing it of "enslavery".

Like some of other commenters, I can't quite get a grip on what it was that made this incredible turnaround happen.

You talk about racism, but when I lived in Spain, I couldn't believe the attitude toward the gitanos, when I lived in France, I saw horrible racism toward the Romanian and Algerians, and don't even get me started about Germans and the Turkish immigrant workers there. I've never heard worse things said by one kind of human being about another than I heard in Germany. So I'm sorry, I really can't say Canada is any more racist than Europe. In fact, I'd say maybe even the opposite, in my experience, anyway.

You talk about the standard of living being lower in Canada than Europe, but I've lived in these places, and it seems to me more or less the same. You can get about the same apartment, the same food (there's much more than just American processed food in Toronto), transport costs about the same, the health care systems and schools are not dramatically different in terms of standard of living.

And there are many, many Americans (i.e. not even immigrants), with college and even advanced degrees, with friends and connections, who can't even get a survival job and haven't for months and months. So as a non-native English-speaking immigrant with no connections, I can't even imagine how difficult it would be there.

So maybe I'm just stupid or having trouble reading between the lines in your posts, but I'm just not understanding what caused your newfound hatred of Canada?

 

[zero]

Dear CJ,

I am from Denmark and want to move in July 2011 before my PR card time is expired with my two innocent childrens, whoes father left them because of his American dream! I was so motivated to read your last 22 posted and by inspired your view. I am like you, careerist, and the same values of life. Last 16 years I am in Denmark, with one Master degree from My Country Asia, as called your 3rd world country. I was offered always cleaning job here, so I took my MBA from Copenhagen at the learn Danish as well as integrated within this culture 99% , modern , personal drive, perfectionist.... bla bla.... to keep my religious and culture within my private life and my mind
I never want to get social help and want to use my qualification, hard work as well as earn money for my life!
Alas! Last 12 years I wrote 10,000 job application 1000 interview and got always job like project or permanent job but when the company’s economy run not so good, as well as when I performed well, bullyed By my managers or colleagues. Again through they me to job market for job searching!!!!!!!!!!!!
After so many interviews and test when 2 left one is me and another is Danish P, they chose the Danish P!
Where they have not any explanation, why I am not!!!!!!
Although they CFO or Director are eating launch with all employees, but how much they give us chance to hear our view!, how much they talk with us or how much they give us chance to open for us the job markets door! I know many of PHD or highly qualified, perfect in Danish, could not had chance to come in the job market and ending their career as a Taxi chaffers.
So lives are for us as an immigrant, none place are best, just to compromise where they give little values. But I say thanks for your view and your opinion, that’s open my eyes to think once more time to move from here. I cannot compromise with my career. My children’s future and my value, so thinking one more time where in this world, I will be best treated! London or Dubai or somewhere in Asia!!!!

 

[Acelawyer]

I am new to this forum in terms of signing up, but I had been following ChalotteJ's post from the beginning. I read joy and happiness turn to frustration and unhappiness. I think generally people have a mistaken idea of immigration. When you move from your country to another, you have to be prepared for many challenges. You know why you left your country and know its not an easy decision to leave your comfort zone for somewhere you probably have no friends or relatives. But your motivating factor should be your reason for leaving your country. I personally have lived in London and I now live in the US but will be moving to Canada soon. When I moved from my country to London, I hated every minute of it, because I was coming from a country where I had a driver, several nannies and many other privileges. But I left all that behind because security of life was uncertain. My motivating factor was the life of my children, to give them a better life and that kept me going. I moved from job to job but eventually got a relatively good one. There is discrimination in my country as well, so the discrimination I faced in the countries I have lived in did not bother me, my motivating factor kept me going and I was focused on that. America is a different ball game, until you live here you don't know the half of it. You want to see discrimination? go to Mississippi or any of the southern states or even Ohio and don,t get me started on health care that you pay through your nose for if you don't have health insurance like me. If you lose your job, you lose your health benefits too! I guess my point is that you have to find something that will keep you going and rise above all the challenges of wherever you find yourself. You are lucky that its just you and your bf, you have no children to log around, try other provinces cause it looks like you don,t have much to go back to in NL (at least according to your post, pls correct me if I am wrong). Canada is a vast land and I am looking forward to the challenges and rising above the prejudice. In conclusion, I have friends who moved from the US to Alberta, June will be 3 years since they moved. Her husband is in accounting and got a good job in an oil company without Canadian experience within 3 weeks of their arrival, and my friend got a job within 2 weeks. She has since changed jobs twice and they were not survival jobs. At the same time they are both studying at the community colleges trying to better their education and volunteering at different organizations in Calgary. Don,t just give up in a few weeks of being in Canada. Renew your determination as I have read in your posts, you seem to be on the right track. Thats just my 2 cents like they say here in the US. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the future!

 

[clubcanada]

I have friends who moved from the US to Alberta, June will be 3 years since they moved. Her husband is in accounting and got a good job in an oil company without Canadian experience within 3 weeks of their arrival, and my friend got a job within 2 weeks. She has since changed jobs twice and they were not survival jobs. At the same time they are both studying at the community colleges trying to better their education and volunteering at different organizations in Calgary. Don,t just give up in a few weeks of being in Canada. Renew your determination as I have read in your posts, you seem to be on the right track. Thats just my 2 cents like they say here in the US. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the future!

It's absolutely true. there're a lot of cases where people found jobs without canadian experience. however, keep in mind that it's also a question of timing. I bet that if your friends moved over to AB last year (the same time CJ arrived in TO), they probably would not have found a decent job unless they are in a very specific field. I know some people who came to AB on a work permit 3-5 years ago. Most of them lost their jobs in the meantime and were sent back home. Some were lucky as they applied for PR right on time...

 

[CharlotteJ]

Please people.... stop this madness and don't blame me for being of Black and White only which I am not.

None of you have really met me and know me for who I am and what a personality I can be and I can tell you all that I am one of the most genuine people on this planet who loves all and everybody for who they are and what they are, but believe me, discrimination is huge in this country. It doesn't matter who you are, it is all about HOW much you can mean for them money-wise!

It is all about short term profit, short term this and short term that and truly hardly any respect by any of those on power for the average Joe and Jane on the street and in most layers of the society who work hard to have a better life.

Most of you who are holding a MBA degree or a whole bunch of other high degree's should go and get a job at a hotel, at a department store, at any other store, at a restaurant and as receptionist and a cleaner at any company as to realize what I am talking about!!!!

I was having my own office back home in the Netherlands, I was always hiring people who I got to know during a fun chit chatty interview and I had a lot of fun with colleagues and people I met and I 've seen how everybody was treated equally at work. I myself did not accept people who were against others or isolating others just because they didn't like somebody and disgusted their behavior and did something about it, I got here and I went through some real shit and gutter to see how big fat ugly people treat skinny little humble intelligent and oh so kind people like dirt and how much they do NOT care abou them and now you are all talking about me making such a major shift from A to Z?????

NO way ... I am still the same Charlotte and so much the same person who shall encourage everybody who wants to live a real good life and achieve his/her goals and raise a family in a better place, but if you can't handle being treated like dirt and/or at the lowest of the society and a nobody while you are somebody, then don't move here. Stay where you are!

Like I said, they are all after your money, this is why Canada is so strong and did survive the most severe recession ever not because there are good banking rules only, but because they lie to people, to come over here and get their money! ... all these 250.000 new immigrants each year bring in money and that is cash!! the best business you can do and it is a thriving business...YOUR MONEY!!!!!! it will be stalled in the banks, in the associations, in anywhere you go and you pay tens of fees and I don't know what to keep them satisfied and much of it goes unnoticed!

But like I said, I shall not accept being a nobody and say "yes sir, no sir" to a big fat horizontally hugely fat and wide white man who doesn't eye me worthy of a bit of appreciation and acts as if he is the god of I don't know where and women who I see here shop at Yorkville acting as if they are the goddesses and queens of I don't know where while they are just "nobody's" and have no idea how a Real Princess and a real Prince does act cause I have worked for them and I have seen people of Royal Blood all around me at work and none was acting so cheap and so inhumane and disrespecting others and always talk about others as if they are trash!

I go back to a place where there is real good old money and there are real good old rich people who drive a Volkswagen and wear Gap pants and don't care about Prada and/or Gucci and are just as fun as you and I are and to people who were having lunch with the Queen and who once at work, when I didn't came to sit in the room and lunch with them, were upset and told me " Charlotte, where are you? come upstaird, you are not allowed to sit on your own and lunch in solitude, you are just like us! come up girl"!!! and that in a palace... yes, a real palace and not one of these tacky Chinese real estate kind of zillion dollar homes in Thornhill or richmond Hill or Mount Pleasant and I don't know where ... full of tacky stuff!

I hate that ... call me a socialist and a stupid gal who was not prepared enough to come here, I was not stupid and I was very well prepared and I did know what I exactly was doing, but I didn't know how "sick" Canadian society from inside is because I was always a tourist and not one of the slaves behind closed doors!

I am sure this is the same case in many other places on this planet and even worse elsewhere, but I am not to judge on that since I am a spoiled rich European girl who woke up and has no intentions what so ever to ever come back to Canada!

And please if you ever visit a shop and/or any public establishment and want to buy something, have respect for the associates and only pick the kind people, those who like me always smile, always are fun and try to be a real person regardless of all and help them to survive.

The competition out there is killing and so severe only the Evil ones can survive it!

Yesterday at The Bay store here on Bloor street, I was buying some stuff for my Mom and this woman who never said "hello" to me and was even so rude to once stand up and sit elsewhere during lunch break in the cafeteria when I went to have my lunch and keep her good company, suddenly was so friendly and asking me to buy my stuff there because I know that those working at certain departments like cosmetics are on commission and their floor manager is a roughless woman who fires them with no pardon if they don't reach their target and I told her that she would have better learn of her own attitude and be a friendly friend next time she has a seasonal colleague like me because now I am a customer and I am not going to buy from her, but from the Afghan girl next to her who despite all always is smiling and was kind to me!

Anyway ...

This is Canada... if you can survive it, you do. I won't ...I can't survive this and I long to a place with a real history, a soul and a spirit and people who may not be that friendly like me, but believe me, those who do discriminated me and I met were mostly those from Eastern European countries!!!!

Next time I hire, when I have a similar job in the Netherlands, you bet I won't hire anybody from those places I 've seen here who treated me like trash!

But I shall hire people from India, China, Philippines and a few other nations that I met and were oh so kind to me and are so kind to me to this day.

I don't know ... don't blame me for being black and white, but be realistic yourself! ... don't jump into something you can't afford or handle, just because everybdoy says it is good.

It is all some huge marketing power behind it all and like shown yesterday, Vancouver and Toronto are again ranked among top 5 best cities on this planet to live and I can now tell, after 6 months of life here in a lovely neighborhood in Toronto, that it won't be ranked among my top 50 best cities of this planet personally!

But sure among the worst top 5!!!

Real Estate and yes, attracting new immigrants to a new promised land, needs a good Marketing force too... believe it, buy it and get yourself to Canada, a place where its 5 major cities are among Top 5 of the entire planet!!!!

Good luck!

 

[scylla]

but believe me, those who do discriminated me and I met were mostly those from Eastern European countries!!!!

Next time I hire, when I have a similar job in the Netherlands, you bet I won't hire anybody from those places I 've seen here who treated me like trash!

I hope you don't mean what you've said above and have only written this because you're upset. Doing this would make you no better than the people here who discriminated against you because you were from a different place. I'm sure you're a better person than that - and you won't automatically assume someone is a bad person just because of their ethhinicity, skin colour, etc. People are all individuals in their thoughts and actions. You can't simply paint one nationality or religion with one brush.

Anyway, I sincerely wish you luck and hope you find happiness/success back home (I'm sure you will).

 

[melbell_28]

wow a lotta rants on this thread... just for the record, i came here as an immigrant many years ago.. went back to my native country where i lived in the lap of luxury and came back in 2009. i was hell bent on making it on my own and i did.

my first place in toronto was a tiny room that i rented. it didn't even fit my 2 suitcases. i then moved on to a tiny 1 bedroom apartment when I got a job.. Soon I got another job (better!) and moved to a bigger 1 bedroom. Last year I got my 3rd job since 2009 and it was offered to me and I now rent a 2 bedroom on queen street. in about a year or 2, we're buying a house!!

i can understand how someone can be frustrated especially if you are older because you are going to be very set in your ways. however i have lived in Europe as well and i think whoever says that there is nothing for an intellect here is either blind or ignorant.

hey winter is not that great, but I visit the ROM regularly for fun. i go see the broadways that they have... I visit the galleries on Queen street and I think the best thing about living in a place like toronto is that i have been exposed to so many different cultures from all around the world and learned to not only to love the food from other countries, but also learned about their history and languages and how things work.

yes people can be a little stand offish but that's to be expected in any country. I think it also have to do with how you are with other people. I have on many occasions had full blown conversations with ppl that i have met on the subway and that doesn't happen in a lotta different places.

and if you hate toronto and call us money hungry people, lets see how you last in a place like new york. lol.. my take is you can be happy in any environment! its always your choice. I don't sit around and count and think about what I don't have. Rather I appreciate what I do have no matter how small they are! like the bus driver that always tells us to "have a wonderful evening" at the end of the route or the random guy that will help the lady with a stroller thanks to the stairs... if your hell bent on being unhappy and you are unhappy with urself, this is not the place to be.

Also I'm in HR. one of the hardest industries to crack into. But I manged too regardless. That wasn't luck, it was hard work. If you want a happy go lucky place where you sit around and do nothing, this is not the place. If your afraid to get your hands dirty and put ur pride aside and be humble, you wont last here a week. your better of packing you bags and going back to where ever because you can only succeed here if you work hard. Whoever is ranting on this forum is used to a very different life that's easy as hell and is very judgemental despite all their protest against that.

Again, not everyone can handle it. Different ppl - Different strokes. those of that can, are very happy here. and for all of you that's reading this entire thread, please know that this place is not as bad is it's been painted out to be. i'm a true testiment to that. if you work hard, you can make it and you will be happy. and its worth it. I know more people that have ended up successful here rather than leaving. So that says something about the place doesnt it..

cheers.

PS - this is no promisland. i don't understand why ppl think that.. geeze... this is the land where you work your ass off and you get to your own goals! canada never promised anything.. everyone just assumes that we do! dumb if you ask me!

 

[ultimate_mr_universe]

Dear CJ,
Thanks for your elaborate posts after your last goodbye. I was sure you will not just go away like that. Well I throughly enjoyed reading your posts starting with beginning of your journey with lots of optimism towards your new life in Canada followed by your entire struggle phase to find a decent job and in the end( I hope it is not) this complete change of perspective towards life in Canada. One day I also would be migrating to Canada like you and landing in Toronto, and I surely would remember lots of important tips given by you like networking, YMCA, opening bank account, buying things, learning french, job portals, resume, interviews etc etc. I respect your opinion and I am sure you have some solid reaons to think about Canada the way you do now. I would definitely keep all those negative things at the back of my mind but just can't afford to get influenced by it completely and change my decision. Lastly I would just say hope to hear more from you.Bye.