Mother in laws case for PR

[ryan007]

Hi everyone,
My mother in law had been travelling often since 2000 (her elder daughter I.e. my sister in law was a PR since 1996 and subsequently got her citizenship.)
We (my wife , my son and myself) applied for PR in 2002 and subsequently got it in 2008 after which we did our landing and my wife and son settled down for good while I had to be closer home to visit and organize caregivers for my ageing parents. Now that matters are under control back home, I decided to settle in Canada for good and successfully entered Canada around a month back. Subsequent to which I cleared my G licence and also successfully got my OHIP re instated ( which was taken away). Coming to the issue of my mother in law. Since both her daughters were settled here ( being only two siblings, no other child) and she too ageing , it would become more and more difficult for her to stay alone in her home country and so my sister in law applied for her PR in 2010 which got rejected since the argument was that she had been travelling in and out of Canada for the past ten years and she could stay on her own or hence my sisterinlaw should have applied much earlier. Subsequently, the lawyer through whom we applied ( not a lawyer of repute, as we came to know latter on!!!!And who had his license to practice revoked due to some wrong representations and reinstated
subsequently) made us go through the H&C route making my mother in law give false statements of how she was tortured by neighbours who were religious fanatics back home. This argument too didn't hold good and now as I am told by my wife, the lawyer had appealed in he the a Federal courts to reverse the order of her appeal being rejected and again on H&C grounds to consider the case as both her daughters are in Canada and she had no relatives or friends back home with whom she can stay or who can take care of her.
Please advice, share your views on the matter so far progressed as we are at our wits end , not knowing what could be the next possible outcome and what actions we should take going forward to proactively take steps to have her stay with us.

 

[scylla]

Since both her daughters were settled here ( being only two siblings, no other child) and she too ageing , it would become more and more difficult for her to stay alone in her home country and so my sister in law applied for her PR in 2010 which got rejected since the argument was that she had been travelling in and out of Canada for the past ten years and she could stay on her own or hence my sisterinlaw should have applied much earlier.

It's not possible to be refused PR through family class for this reason. Either there was a different reason for refusal - or this initial application was an H&C application rather than a regular parental sponsorship through the Family Class stream. I suspect this initial application was an H&C application. If it had been a regular application, then the application would only now be reaching the sponsor approval step and the applicant review would still be a year or two away.

It also sounds like the second application was possibly a refugee application rather than H&C.

Regardless, I think your mother faces an uphill battle getting this last H&C application approved. If she is still working with the same lawyer, she should get a new one. I would also start seriously thinking about what will happen if your mother must return home. This is a very real possibility.

 

[Catou]

I agree with scylla. It doesn't sound as if any of these applications were regular parental sponsorship applications in the family class. It's unfortunate that this route was taken, and very unfortunate that she misrepresented herself and lied in an application. All of that will be on record and could make an appeal very difficult to win.
Get some good, reliable, reputable legal advice but, as scylla said, be prepared in case she is denied.

 

[mikeymyke]

Instead of finding ways for her to stay with you (that's going to be impossible given her past history, you guys should find ways to be with her. She will likely also be refused a Super Visa to visit, because they will see her previous history and family ties as her unlikely to go back to her country.

 

[ryan007]

Thank you Scylla,Mikey & Catou for your replies.

Yes, probably the second application was a refugee claim.After the hearing, the lawyer informed us that he met the Judge subsequently and my mother in law had won the appeal and she had got her PR. We were all delighted and even spread the news around, but to our utter dismay we received a communication in our mail stating the opposite, upholding the previous decision of rejecting her application for PR.
Since the chances are less of the decisions by the previous appeals being turned around (Which I think the lawyer too is clever enough to understand), the lawyer has also adviced my mother in law to look at the possibility of getting married to a Canadian!! which left us all flabbergasted. (the sort of scamsters you ge to read/hear about).

 

[scylla]

Yes, probably the second application was a refugee claim.After the hearing, the lawyer informed us that he met the Judge subsequently and my mother in law had won the appeal and she had got her PR. We were all delighted and even spread the news around, but to our utter dismay we received a communication in our mail stating the opposite, upholding the previous decision of rejecting her application for PR.
Since the chances are less of the decisions by the previous appeals being turned around (Which I think the lawyer too is clever enough to understand), the lawyer has also adviced my mother in law to look at the possibility of getting married to a Canadian!! which left us all flabbergasted. (the sort of scamsters you ge to read/hear about).

Why are you still with this lawyer?

Regardless of who is advising or representing your mother-in-law, CIC will hold her 100% accountable for everything that is done and said.

 

[zardoz]

Did any of the appeal judgements mention "misrepresentation" (by anyone involved)?

If they did, that is pretty much the "kiss of death" to any further applications for a visitor visa, and may well negatively impact any normal Parental Sponsorship when it reopens again next year.

 

[ryan007]

Hi Zardoz,
None of the judgements and appeals mention "misrepresentation" however in the details of the judgement on the refugee claim there is a mention of inconsistency between the communal reasons i.e. torture,looting,etc that was mentioned by the lawyer in the refugee claim and the reasons in the first application for PR under the H&C grounds with sponsorship which stated the application was in the interest of reuniting with the daughters and the grandchildren besides better living conditions in Canada, whereas the first application is silent on any incidents involving communal flare up and intimidation that the refugee claim application contained.
Can this be construed as "misrepresentation" I now wonder.

As per some section they have kept the decision subject to appeal in the federal court which we have proceeded with.

Leon, it would be great to have you share your thoughts too on this issue...being guiding,counselling me since the past two years on my personal case.

 

[ryan007]

Hi All,
Now that the case is under appeal, can we in parallel apply for PR for my mother in law under the 'sponsorship of parents / grandparents for PR in Canada under family class', which is due to re-open on January 2nd 2014 after being suspended for over two years (during which period, I now understand is when the lawyer had put in the H&C and subsequently the Refugee status applications).
Leon/any other senior members please advice.

 

[scylla]

Sure - if one of her children meet the income requirements, they can sponsor your mother-in-law once CIC begins accepting applications again in January.

However if her current appeal fails, she will still have to leave Canada. The fact that a PR application has been filed for her won't mean she is allowed to stay.

 

[ryan007]

Thanks , Scylla...

 

[ryan007]

Hi Scylla,
This morning we called up the lawyer and we were given some crappy answer as to the judge advised her to apply under H&C grounds again after he rejected the refugee application which the lawyer has proceeded with and that even if we apply under the family sponsorship which opens on 2nd Jan, it will take a year to process besides we would have to cancel the application under H&C grounds which would necessitate her leaving the country. Is this true? Could you throw some light, share your thoughts on the lawyers answer to our query regarding applying under family sponsorship.
Thanks in advance for your response. You guys are doing a great job in helping us out.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

that even if we apply under the family sponsorship which opens on 2nd Jan, it will take a year to process

I'm guessing your mother-in-law is also from India. If so, there is no chance a sponsorship app would be done in a year. Your lawyer is an idiot if he told you that.

A parent sponsorship app from India currently takes 5 years to process. Even with the cap on new applications in 2014, that processing time probably won't change much for awhile, as CIC still needs to clear the massive backlog.

 

[scylla]

I'm guessing your mother-in-law is also from India. If so, there is no chance a sponsorship app would be done in a year. Your lawyer is an idiot if he told you that.

A parent sponsorship app from India currently takes 5 years to process. Even with the cap on new applications in 2014, that processing time probably won't change much for awhile, as CIC still needs to clear the massive backlog.

Agreed. There is absolutely no way it's going to take a year (no matter where's she's from). It's going to take several years. And it would be very wrong to believe that she can remain in Canada while this application is being processed.

I also agree that your lawyer is an idiot.

 

[ryan007]

Hello everyone,
Today finally I met the "consultant" (who has a network of lawyers) and not a lawyer himself who was advising my mother in law.We received a mail from Canadian Border Services Agency stating that as per their records my mother in law having lost the refugee claim cannot stay any longer in the country and that she has to present herself at their office with her valid passport, four photographs and other copies of appeals and judgements that she may have received.
Now this "bloke" had the cheek to tell us that this is the normal process and that when she goes to meet the concerned officials she should say that she is leaving the country soon and just agree to whatever they say.
This would be a friendly discussion and they will not intimidate her.
And this consultant was making some statements about some advise which he had given her through one lawyer of his which was not true as my wife was present in that meeting and doesn't recollect what he was telling today that he had already told them earlier.Anyways on hearing the lies that he was telling, my mother in law felt giddy and unwell. On seeing her in this state , he said to get a certificate from the doctor stating that she has health issues and cannot stay alone and needs constant supervision and care which he will get the Judge to stay her removal order which would be the next step after meeting the CBSA official as per today's communication received. When I argued with him that this would not be in our favor sicnr the Govt would see her as a liability from OHIP point of view , he argued that no , she is being looked after by her daughters now which they will continue to do so. I could not understand this statement of his.
Also he was mentioning that if her passport had expired then she could stay in Canada and that there are many who are staying here form 50-60 years like this , since their country does-not accept anyone with an expired passport. Further in the discussion when I asked him for the copy of the third application under H&C grounds with sponsorship he mentioned to my wife and mother in law that he has already given it to them. Again another lie. When we insisted, he said he will send it tomorrow.
We all are extremely upset and need advice on what should be our next course of action.
Should we get a second opinion on the matter ? Will it help?

Leon/Scylla/Msafiri or anyone knowing such a similar case please advice.