Mistake in Application - in other country more than 183 days in a row

[ani8886]

Hi all,
I submitted my online citizenship application recently in August 2021 and just realized that I made a mistake with regards to the question - "In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?" - I answered Yes (though PCC not to be submitted) , instead of No. Here is the summary of my case:

• The 4 year period starts from Aug-2017. I landed in Canada as a PR in Nov-2017. I did not leave Canada for more than 30 continuous days after landing in Canada.
• I answered 'Yes' to the above question, because prior to Nov-2017, I was a resident of India (my country citizenship) for several years (more than 183 days). I now realize that it was an misunderstanding on my part.
• In the last 4 years from my application submission, I was continuously in India only for 100 days (Aug-2017 to Nov-2017). Therefore, the answer to the question should have been 'No'.
• I did not submit police clearance certificate (PCC), because irrespective of the answer to the question, I understand that PCC was not required, as I was in my country of origin prior to becoming PR. I also mentioned that in my online application.

I have not yet received AOR (recent application), but I am planning to mention my case in a webform (it uses UCI number), and requesting for a correction.

Is there a better alternative than above, such as waiting to get AOR/ Withdrawing my application etc? Would appreciate your suggestions.

 

[dpenabill]

As long as you provided an explanation for not providing a PCC in the chart/box for item 10.b) in the application, this should not, and almost certainly will not, cause any problems. (Only reason for not making any guarantee is that there is never any for-certain guarantees.)

If that is the only mistake you made in the application, congratulations, you did a far better job than most, including me. (And quite likely a lot better than those who are sure they made no mistakes, since it is almost always a mistake to be sure no mistakes were made.)

Since your address history and physical presence calculation travel history will amply document your account of where you were when, there is not the vaguest hint of misrepresentation. Moreover, it appears that many applicants mistakenly overlook that item 10.b) is about the preceding four years and not the five year eligibility period (at least questions posed in forums like this quite often fail to take account of the difference), so odds are good that this is a common mistake that IRCC officials are accustomed to seeing.

Hardly seems worth submitting a correction. Not likely this will even trigger an interview question.

Hi all,
I submitted my online citizenship application recently in August 2021 and just realized that I made a mistake with regards to the question - "In the past 4 years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?" - I answered Yes (though PCC not to be submitted) , instead of No. Here is the summary of my case:

• The 4 year period starts from Aug-2017. I landed in Canada as a PR in Nov-2017. I did not leave Canada for more than 30 continuous days after landing in Canada.
• I answered 'Yes' to the above question, because prior to Nov-2017, I was a resident of India (my country citizenship) for several years (more than 183 days). I now realize that it was an misunderstanding on my part.
• In the last 4 years from my application submission, I was continuously in India only for 100 days (Aug-2017 to Nov-2017). Therefore, the answer to the question should have been 'No'.
• I did not submit police clearance certificate (PCC), because irrespective of the answer to the question, I understand that PCC was not required, as I was in my country of origin prior to becoming PR. I also mentioned that in my online application.

I have not yet received AOR (recent application), but I am planning to mention my case in a webform (it uses UCI number), and requesting for a correction.

Is there a better alternative than above, such as waiting to get AOR/ Withdrawing my application etc? Would appreciate your suggestions.

 

[ani8886]

As long as you provided an explanation for not providing a PCC in the chart/box for item 10.b) in the application, this should not, and almost certainly will not, cause any problems. (Only reason for not making any guarantee is that there is never any for-certain guarantees.)

If that is the only mistake you made in the application, congratulations, you did a far better job than most, including me. (And quite likely a lot better than those who are sure they made no mistakes, since it is almost always a mistake to be sure no mistakes were made.)

Since your address history and physical presence calculation travel history will amply document your account of where you were when, there is not the vaguest hint of misrepresentation. Moreover, it appears that many applicants mistakenly overlook that item 10.b) is about the preceding four years and not the five year eligibility period (at least questions posed in forums like this quite often fail to take account of the difference), so odds are good that this is a common mistake that IRCC officials are accustomed to seeing.

Hardly seems worth submitting a correction. Not likely this will even trigger an interview question.

Thank you so much for your response. Feeling more reassured now. In case I submit a correction though (although not necessary, but just for total peace of mind purpose - I have to stop having OCD about it), would it negatively affect my application?

 

[Tobenfrost]

As long as you provided an explanation for not providing a PCC in the chart/box for item 10.b) in the application, this should not, and almost certainly will not, cause any problems. (Only reason for not making any guarantee is that there is never any for-certain guarantees.)

If that is the only mistake you made in the application, congratulations, you did a far better job than most, including me. (And quite likely a lot better than those who are sure they made no mistakes, since it is almost always a mistake to be sure no mistakes were made.)

Since your address history and physical presence calculation travel history will amply document your account of where you were when, there is not the vaguest hint of misrepresentation. Moreover, it appears that many applicants mistakenly overlook that item 10.b) is about the preceding four years and not the five year eligibility period (at least questions posed in forums like this quite often fail to take account of the difference), so odds are good that this is a common mistake that IRCC officials are accustomed to seeing.

Hardly seems worth submitting a correction. Not likely this will even trigger an interview question.

As long as you provided an explanation for not providing a PCC in the chart/box for item 10.b) in the application, this should not, and almost certainly will not, cause any problems. (Only reason for not making any guarantee is that there is never any for-certain guarantees.)

If that is the only mistake you made in the application, congratulations, you did a far better job than most, including me. (And quite likely a lot better than those who are sure they made no mistakes, since it is almost always a mistake to be sure no mistakes were made.)

Since your address history and physical presence calculation travel history will amply document your account of where you were when, there is not the vaguest hint of misrepresentation. Moreover, it appears that many applicants mistakenly overlook that item 10.b) is about the preceding four years and not the five year eligibility period (at least questions posed in forums like this quite often fail to take account of the difference), so odds are good that this is a common mistake that IRCC officials are accustomed to seeing.

Hardly seems worth submitting a correction. Not likely this will even trigger an interview question.

Hi Dpenabill,

Hope this finds you well. I have a query on Police Certificate (PC) requirement as well, but it is more about clarifying a potential mistake I did while explaining why I will not be submitting a PC.

I applied for Canadian citizenship (online) on May 9, 2021, and the only status that is completed is for the Citizenship test in December 2021. I was required to submit my fingerprints in December 2021 and IRCC received them on Jan 10, 2022.

Since then I haven’t seen any movement on my application. Curious about the progress, I did reach out initially to the IRCC call center (April 2022) and then to my MP for help on inquiring about my application status. The MP office staff informed me that my background check is pending as I haven’t submitted the PCs for Saudi Arabia (country of origin) and Pakistan. I was surprised at the feedback as there was no requirement for me to submit the PC from Saudi Arabia. I will explain it below.

While I was born in Saudi Arabia, I came to Pakistan when I was 2 years old when my family relocated back. I haven’t been to Saudi Arabia since then. Accordingly, while submitting the PR application, the PCs I submitted were from Pakistan. In the citizenship application, while answering the question for providing a PC for a country or territory other than Canada where I spent 183 days or more in a row, I selected “No” as that time was immediately prior to becoming a Canadian PR and as per the guide, there is no such requirement in this case. In the country or territory section, I selected Pakistan. I did travel to Pakistan after coming to Canada for a visit for 39 days and mentioned it in the physical presence calculator as well.

I referred back to my copy for the online citizenship application and noticed that while explaining the reason for not submitting a PC, I mistakenly mentioned that I was in my country of origin prior to becoming a Canadian PR, cited the relevant Citizenship Guide section and added that I did submit the relevant PCs while applying for PR. I did not realize that my country of origin can be considered Saudi Arabia. I thought that by country of origin, it was being referred to the country for which I have my nationality i.e. Pakistan. My hunch is that this led to confusion and so my background check is pending. I deduce the same from the information provided by the MP office staff.

In a recent interaction with the IRCC call center agent on May 27, 2022, I was informed that within the background check, the Criminality was cleared on Jan 11, 2022, while Security is pending, per the notes from the agent handling the file.

I informed her about the mistake I made in explaining the reason for not submitting the PC, the call center agent advised me to submit a web form explaining the same.

I had also applied for the ATIP notes on May 26, 2022, prior to talking to the call enter agent. I understand that generally, the ATIP notes take some time (at least 30 days) before coming.

My question to you is, should I upload the webform explaining the mistake I made and requesting rectification per my response in webform or wait a bit? Is there a possibility that my webform response makes things more difficult for me?

Let me know if you need more clarifications.

 

[dpenabill]

My question to you is, should I upload the webform explaining the mistake I made and requesting rectification per my response in webform or wait a bit? Is there a possibility that my webform response makes things more difficult for me?

I am NOT an expert and there are many reasons why I am not qualified to give personal advice.

And I do not understand the mistake or the explanation.

If you can clearly state the specific mistake you made, and correct it, and explain how you made that mistake, there should be no negative consequences for clarifying this with IRCC using the webform process.

But if IRCC has not asked you for information or documents or an explanation, I wonder whether the help centre agent was more or less giving a generic answer: if you made a mistake, sure, correct it using the webform.

Given the stage of processing, well after the knowledge of Canada test, generally the applicant can follow IRCC cues, which mostly means submitting additional information when asked. At this stage if the officials processing your application need further information or clarification from you, the applicant, generally they will ask for it.

In the meantime, processing timelines continue to be all over the map, so it is very difficult if not nearly impossible to correlate this or that particular reason to why your application in particular has not proceeded to the next step within a time frame you think it should, or within a timeline similar to what you see happening for other comparable applicants. So it is difficult to figure out if there is some background check issue slowing things down.

But even if there is a background check issue slowing things down, by this stage of processing that has most likely moved into whatever procedure IRCC has chosen to employ in your case, and not much you could do to change things now. Meaning you mostly need to wait to see what IRCC does next.

By the way: my view is that a lot of the monitoring of application process discussed in this forum is largely meaningless, especially efforts to extrapolate timeline information from the status of background checks. For the vast majority of qualified applicants, the application is sitting in this or that queue waiting for a processing agent or officer to take the next step, just waiting, and that's what the applicant needs to do as well: WAIT. It can be frustrating, for sure, but there are tens of thousands of others in a similar place, just waiting.

A little bit about providing PCC with application or providing a PCC later:

First, a reminder, there are the rules and instructions specifying if and when an applicant should include a PCC with the application itself. Apart from that, IRCC can ask any applicant for a PCC at any time later during the processing of the citizenship application. Even having just briefly visited a country could be a basis for IRCC to ask for a PCC.

While I was born in Saudi Arabia, I came to Pakistan when I was 2 years old when my family relocated back. I haven’t been to Saudi Arabia since then. Accordingly, while submitting the PR application, the PCs I submitted were from Pakistan. In the citizenship application, while answering the question for providing a PC for a country or territory other than Canada where I spent 183 days or more in a row, I selected “No” as that time was immediately prior to becoming a Canadian PR and as per the guide, there is no such requirement in this case. In the country or territory section, I selected Pakistan. I did travel to Pakistan after coming to Canada for a visit for 39 days and mentioned it in the physical presence calculator as well.

I referred back to my copy for the online citizenship application and noticed that while explaining the reason for not submitting a PC, I mistakenly mentioned that I was in my country of origin prior to becoming a Canadian PR, cited the relevant Citizenship Guide section and added that I did submit the relevant PCs while applying for PR. I did not realize that my country of origin can be considered Saudi Arabia. I thought that by country of origin, it was being referred to the country for which I have my nationality i.e. Pakistan. My hunch is that this led to confusion and so my background check is pending. I deduce the same from the information provided by the MP office staff.

I am not sure what you checked "NO" for. And if the way this is presented in the online application is different than how it is presented in the paper version, I am not familiar with the difference.

In the paper version question 10.b) has two parts. The first part asks a simple factual question: were you (the applicant) in a country other than Canada for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years. A "no" response to this is a representation that you were not in a country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years.

If you were in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years, the proper answer is yes, regardless what country that was, regardless when during the relevant four years that was. A "yes" answer does not necessarily mean the applicant needs to include a PCC with the application. It just means yes the applicant was in another country for 183 or more days.

The second part of 10.b) (paper version) is a chart where the applicant lists any country for which the applicant answered "yes" to the first part. In that chart the applicant can answer yes or no as to whether a PCC is being included for that country. If the applicant says "no" here, the applicant needs to give an explanation for why no PCC is being included.

More than a few applicants make mistakes with this question. Some check "no" to the first part even though their travel history clearly shows they were in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years; sometimes this mistake is made because the applicant concludes an exception applies to their case, whereas they should have answered "yes" but then "no" not including a PCC and stated an explanation of their exception in the chart. More than a few others apparently misunderstand the exceptions, and check "no" they are not including a PCC in the chart, and give an explanation that does not qualify for an exception.

So far as the anecdotal reports go, we have seen three different ways these situations have been handled:

-- application returned as incomplete (have seen this only relatively recently)​

-- applicant is later asked to provide a PCC​

-- no apparent effect, no later request for a PCC​

The last of these needs qualifying. It might only *APPEAR* to have no effect. Rather than request the PCC later in the process, IRCC can rely on CSIS or CBSA to conduct further overseas inquiry to verify that the applicant has no security or criminal related inadmissibility issues and no criminal prohibition issues. If that is happening, that is done behind the wall of confidentiality, so the applicant will not know about it and cannot find out about it. It will be redacted from any ATIP responses.

I cannot say what is happening in your case.

 

[Tobenfrost]

I am NOT an expert and there are many reasons why I am not qualified to give personal advice.

And I do not understand the mistake or the explanation.

If you can clearly state the specific mistake you made, and correct it, and explain how you made that mistake, there should be no negative consequences for clarifying this with IRCC using the webform process.

But if IRCC has not asked you for information or documents or an explanation, I wonder whether the help centre agent was more or less giving a generic answer: if you made a mistake, sure, correct it using the webform.

Given the stage of processing, well after the knowledge of Canada test, generally the applicant can follow IRCC cues, which mostly means submitting additional information when asked. At this stage if the officials processing your application need further information or clarification from you, the applicant, generally they will ask for it.

In the meantime, processing timelines continue to be all over the map, so it is very difficult if not nearly impossible to correlate this or that particular reason to why your application in particular has not proceeded to the next step within a time frame you think it should, or within a timeline similar to what you see happening for other comparable applicants. So it is difficult to figure out if there is some background check issue slowing things down.

But even if there is a background check issue slowing things down, by this stage of processing that has most likely moved into whatever procedure IRCC has chosen to employ in your case, and not much you could do to change things now. Meaning you mostly need to wait to see what IRCC does next.

By the way: my view is that a lot of the monitoring of application process discussed in this forum is largely meaningless, especially efforts to extrapolate timeline information from the status of background checks. For the vast majority of qualified applicants, the application is sitting in this or that queue waiting for a processing agent or officer to take the next step, just waiting, and that's what the applicant needs to do as well: WAIT. It can be frustrating, for sure, but there are tens of thousands of others in a similar place, just waiting.

A little bit about providing PCC with application or providing a PCC later:

First, a reminder, there are the rules and instructions specifying if and when an applicant should include a PCC with the application itself. Apart from that, IRCC can ask any applicant for a PCC at any time later during the processing of the citizenship application. Even having just briefly visited a country could be a basis for IRCC to ask for a PCC.



I am not sure what you checked "NO" for. And if the way this is presented in the online application is different than how it is presented in the paper version, I am not familiar with the difference.

In the paper version question 10.b) has two parts. The first part asks a simple factual question: were you (the applicant) in a country other than Canada for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years. A "no" response to this is a representation that you were not in a country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years.

If you were in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years, the proper answer is yes, regardless what country that was, regardless when during the relevant four years that was. A "yes" answer does not necessarily mean the applicant needs to include a PCC with the application. It just means yes the applicant was in another country for 183 or more days.

The second part of 10.b) (paper version) is a chart where the applicant lists any country for which the applicant answered "yes" to the first part. In that chart the applicant can answer yes or no as to whether a PCC is being included for that country. If the applicant says "no" here, the applicant needs to give an explanation for why no PCC is being included.

More than a few applicants make mistakes with this question. Some check "no" to the first part even though their travel history clearly shows they were in another country for 183 or more days in a row during the preceding FOUR years; sometimes this mistake is made because the applicant concludes an exception applies to their case, whereas they should have answered "yes" but then "no" not including a PCC and stated an explanation of their exception in the chart. More than a few others apparently misunderstand the exceptions, and check "no" they are not including a PCC in the chart, and give an explanation that does not qualify for an exception.

So far as the anecdotal reports go, we have seen three different ways these situations have been handled:

-- application returned as incomplete (have seen this only relatively recently)​

-- applicant is later asked to provide a PCC​

-- no apparent effect, no later request for a PCC​

The last of these needs qualifying. It might only *APPEAR* to have no effect. Rather than request the PCC later in the process, IRCC can rely on CSIS or CBSA to conduct further overseas inquiry to verify that the applicant has no security or criminal related inadmissibility issues and no criminal prohibition issues. If that is happening, that is done behind the wall of confidentiality, so the applicant will not know about it and cannot find out about it. It will be redacted from any ATIP responses.

I cannot say what is happening in your case.

Thank you for the detailed response.

I did answer in "Yes" to being present in a country or a territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row in the last four years, then listed the particular country which is Pakistan (my country of nationality), and then answered "No" for whether I will be providing a PCC. As per my understanding, the exception applied to me.

It is while I was explaining the reason for not providing a PCC in 10b) second part, I phrased my response in such a way, which I think may have resulted in a bit of confusion. My answer is as follows.

"I was in my country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four-year period. Per the Guide: Application for Canadian Citizenship: Adults - Subsection 5(1) CIT 0002, 10b, I am not required to provide the police certificate. I provided the relevant police certificates along with other documents while applying for Canadian immigration in 2017."

The potential mistake is stating "my country of origin" in the response, which in my case can be considered as Saudi Arabia rather than Pakistan (my country of nationality). I haven't been to Saudi Arabia since I was last two years old.

It is correct that I haven't been asked by IRCC to rectify it or for any clarification on this or any other matter.

 

[dpenabill]

I am not sure what "country of origin" actually means and there is no definite consensus here about this. Some participants in the forum are sure it means the country in which the individual is a national or the country where one was born. Some believe it means the country where one was primarily situated when the application for PR was made. Example one in the guide fits the latter scenario. And for most PRs, that is the same country where they were born and are a national of.

So it is not clear you made a "mistake." Maybe. It is not so clear as to suggest you need to proactively make an effort to correct it now.

My guess is that it is quite obvious you were referring to Pakistan as your country of origin. Which again is consistent with how some interpret this. So, if you made a mistake, it is more likely to be in how you applied the exception; that is, perhaps you should have checked "yes" you would be including a PCC, and included one, since you had returned to Pakistan after becoming a PR.

But your application passed the completeness screening. So even if your response in the application was in error, that's more or less in the realm of what's done is done.

Remember, the purpose of IRCC asking for a PCC is help it verify an applicant who spent a significant amount of time in another country during the preceding four years does not have any outstanding criminal matters in that country constituting a prohibition. So, as I noted earlier, IRCC may be satisfied with your answers to the prohibition part of the application, and thus not ask for a PCC.

There is nonetheless also some chance that IRCC is independently verifying there are no security or criminal matters in Pakistan, through referral to its Visa Offices, or CBSA, or CSIS. Probably not, but there is no way to find out (investigatory procedures are confidential). And so far your timeline is actually in line with that being reported by others, so there is no reason to anticipate a non-routine background procedure let alone one that is problematic.

Thank you for the detailed response.

I did answer in "Yes" to being present in a country or a territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row in the last four years, then listed the particular country which is Pakistan (my country of nationality), and then answered "No" for whether I will be providing a PCC. As per my understanding, the exception applied to me.

It is while I was explaining the reason for not providing a PCC in 10b) second part, I phrased my response in such a way, which I think may have resulted in a bit of confusion. My answer is as follows.

"I was in my country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada and this time falls within this four-year period. Per the Guide: Application for Canadian Citizenship: Adults - Subsection 5(1) CIT 0002, 10b, I am not required to provide the police certificate. I provided the relevant police certificates along with other documents while applying for Canadian immigration in 2017."

The potential mistake is stating "my country of origin" in the response, which in my case can be considered as Saudi Arabia rather than Pakistan (my country of nationality). I haven't been to Saudi Arabia since I was last two years old.

It is correct that I haven't been asked by IRCC to rectify it or for any clarification on this or any other matter.

 

[Tobenfrost]

I am not sure what "country of origin" actually means and there is no definite consensus here about this. Some participants in the forum are sure it means the country in which the individual is a national or the country where one was born. Some believe it means the country where one was primarily situated when the application for PR was made. Example one in the guide fits the latter scenario. And for most PRs, that is the same country where they were born and are a national of.

So it is not clear you made a "mistake." Maybe. It is not so clear as to suggest you need to proactively make an effort to correct it now.

My guess is that it is quite obvious you were referring to Pakistan as your country of origin. Which again is consistent with how some interpret this. So, if you made a mistake, it is more likely to be in how you applied the exception; that is, perhaps you should have checked "yes" you would be including a PCC, and included one, since you had returned to Pakistan after becoming a PR.

But your application passed the completeness screening. So even if your response in the application was in error, that's more or less in the realm of what's done is done.

Remember, the purpose of IRCC asking for a PCC is help it verify an applicant who spent a significant amount of time in another country during the preceding four years does not have any outstanding criminal matters in that country constituting a prohibition. So, as I noted earlier, IRCC may be satisfied with your answers to the prohibition part of the application, and thus not ask for a PCC.

There is nonetheless also some chance that IRCC is independently verifying there are no security or criminal matters in Pakistan, through referral to its Visa Offices, or CBSA, or CSIS. Probably not, but there is no way to find out (investigatory procedures are confidential). And so far your timeline is actually in line with that being reported by others, so there is no reason to anticipate a non-routine background procedure let alone one that is problematic.

Thank you for the detailed response again. Per the information provided by the IRCC call centre agent, my application is non-routine. Don’t know if that may mean a non routine background check or not. She informed me that when finger prints are required, it means a non routine application. Maybe it was a canned response. Seems waiting for IRCC on taking the next step is the most appropriate thing currently.

 

[dpenabill]

Thank you for the detailed response again. Per the information provided by the IRCC call centre agent, my application is non-routine. Don’t know if that may mean a non routine background check or not. She informed me that when finger prints are required, it means a non routine application. Maybe it was a canned response. Seems waiting for IRCC on taking the next step is the most appropriate thing currently.

Any procedure that is in addition to the procedures for all applications means the application is "non-routine." That means very little. "Non-routine" is not a substantive status. It has NO effect in and of itself.

What really matters is just what non-routine procedure the application is subject to. Some have very little impact, like a fingerprint request, while others can have a significant impact, like a full-blown Residence Questionnaire.

Efforts to micro-monitor the progress of applications generally reveals rather little about when the next step will happen.