MARCH 2014 OUTLAND APPLICANTS

[BunnyB]

HKVO has started working on Jan 2014 applicants already, hopefully we will hear something in the next few weeks, fingers crossed.

 

[angryrectangle]

Just got my notes, they say nothing! I ordered them on July 17th, 2014 but apparently our application didn't reach the VO until July 24th, 2014. Does anyone know why it might have taken so long to transfer the file? 4 months????!?!?

When would be a good time to order another set of notes?

 

[Onemoretime]

Hi all It took me some time to make my VO send my documents to me and today we finally got them and we went to the border right away Officially landed now Immigration officer told me that my PR card will be send to me in 2-4 weeks And my PR is conditional,so i have to live with my bf for 2 next years. But that doesnt matter, i wont let go off him anyways Greetings!

Do you mind if I ask what was your process at the border where you live? Did you have to cross to the US or could you do a U-Turn without crossing? How long did it take?

 

[Koifish76]

yes! i totally agree. i think it's rather odd that visa offices that were quick a few months ago (ie: paris and syndey) are all of a sudden at a halt, while visa offices that were taking longer are now super quick (i: ottawa). This leads me to believe there is some rotation for processing times. also, it's very apparent 2013 applications are processed differently than 2014 applications. Perhaps since they already know how many applications were received in 2013, they are using them to manipulate the stats somehow? or some protocol has changed? also, it could be that what we are seeing now is a true indicator of the process, and last years stats are just reflective of the agency wide strike and subsequnent office closures. obviously it's impossible to know, these are just the conspiracy theories i come up with because i have no life!

One thing I noticed from reading the many cic protocols is they do have x number of cases they need to process, which might explain the change of pace from one year to the next (too many the year before are carried over) and they realize this early on by keeping track of monthly applications received at each office. I thought before, that there is no limit, that they process as they come, but I think they are not allowed to pass the imposed limits and therefore slow things down as the year goes on. I also think there is some sort of rotation as well and definitely think the strike caused many delays.

Haha, the more we think we know, the more we realize it's a maze not meant to be conquered. But that won't stop us from trying to guesstimate when we will get our COPR!

 

[rhcohen2014]

One thing I noticed from reading the many cic protocols is they do have x number of cases they need to process, which might explain the change of pace from one year to the next (too many the year before are carried over) and they realize this early on by keeping track of monthly applications received at each office. I thought before, that there is no limit, that they process as they come, but I think they are not allowed to pass the imposed limits and therefore slow things down as the year goes on.

huh, that is certainly interesting. explains why so many 2013 applications have been left in the dust while so many 2014 applications have seen quick approvals. we will just never know...

 

[O_guy]

Regarding your last comment, it has been explained to me that each visa office has to deal with different agencies doing the final check ups, security clearance, passport control and issuance. All one minister, but it is not as clear cut as one would assume.

And you know what, if it takes 2 years for security clearance to come back, no one should complain because protecting this country is important. But if dealing with different agencies is the issue, why send PPR? If I were a VO officer, I would first do the check-ups and after they all comeback and I'm satisfied that this individual is not a criminal or has infectious disease or..., then I would send PPR email. It simply makes sense to send PPR email AFTER all check-ups are complete.

Furthermore, even if the VOs deal with different agencies, at least all of them should follow the same rule of updating ECAS. Ottawa and many of the VOs in Europe update the ECAS to “in-process” when a VO officer picks up your application and starts to go through it. But that is not the case at the Manila VO.

Singapore seems to have picked up the pace, but applicants from Mid 2013 are being passed over where applicants from dec 2013 and even some from 2014! are seeing progress.

I wonder if the Singapore VO quickly looks over the applications and they set aside the applications that they think will require interview (i.e. applications they think is not true marriage).

 

[Koifish76]

And you know what, if it takes 2 years for security clearance to come back, no one should complain because protecting this country is important. But if dealing with different agencies is the issue, why send PPR? If I were a VO officer, I would first do the check-ups and after they all comeback and I'm satisfied that this individual is not a criminal or has infectious disease or..., then I would send PPR email. It simply makes sense to send PPR email AFTER all check-ups are complete.

Furthermore, even if the VOs deal with different agencies, at least all of them should follow the same rule of updating ECAS. Ottawa and many of the VOs in Europe update the ECAS to “in-process” when a VO officer picks up your application and starts to go through it. But that is not the case at the Manila VO.

I wonder if the Singapore VO quickly looks over the applications and they set aside the applications that they think will require interview (i.e. applications they think is not true marriage).

I thought this might help explain a possible reason. Below, is the organizational chart (composed of the 36 full time staff at the Regional Visa Office in Singapore). If you see how complex it is, one can assume (and I am only guessing here) that after several check ups by VO's, as evident by all of the "assigned by" and "assigned to" we see in the GCMS notes, that it could be, that once the DIO's who complete the initial checks and possibly ask for passport request, it is out of their hands and passed on to several different officers such as "case analyst" and "medical officer" before possibly reaching the desk/station of the "migration integrity officers", who then work possibly with outside agencies ensuring a final check up of the submitted passport and security clearance.

So, based on how I interpret this chart, is that once the passport request/medical/police letter is sent, there is a whole new ball game and different time lengths based on a variety of factors not limited to, the complexity of each individual case and each employee who is overseeing each particular stage, and each background check (possibly requiring the assistance of local agencies such as CBSA, RCMP, CSIS, and outside agencies (foreign immigration/police?) on the security and passport control aspects. A time difference of a few weeks to months can happen because of so many factors and would make it impossible to process the end stages on a first come first serve basis after passport request letter.

Anyways, this is just my analysis and should no way mean anything other than that. Feel free to read the link I have included below to see the actual chart and read about an audit done on the Singpore office. It is an interesting read. There is a good portion on ECAS as well, and if some offices don't regularly update ECAS, they should be audited as well, as one of the conclusions/ recommendations of the Singapore Audit, was that they didn't update ECAS on a timely basis (perhaps monthly instead of weekly!!).

Source: Adapted from the International Region Immigration Management Plan Organizational Chart (November 2009). http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/audit/singapore.asp

Text version: Singapore Mission Organizational Chart
Immigration Program Manager (EX 01)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Medical Officer (MOF 03)
Med. Prog. Asst. (LES 05)
Imm. Program Medical Clerk (LES 04)
Imm. Program Medical Clerk (LES 04)
Refugee Program Assistant (LES 05)
Imm. Program Medical Clerk (LES 04)
Pan-Asia Medical Officer (MOF 03)
Deputy IPM (FS 03)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Case Analyst (LES 06)
Registry Supervisor (LES 06)
Registry Clerk (LES 03)
Registry Clerk (LES 03)
Registry Clerk (LES 03)
DIO (LES 09)
DIO (LES 09)
Program Asst. (LES 05)
DIO (LES 09)
Program Asst. (LES 05)
NIO (LES 07)
Receptionist/Info. Asst. (LES 04)
Third Secretary (FS 02)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Cost Rec. Clerk (LES 04)
Second Secretary (FS 01)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Senior Visa Assistant (LES 05)
Inventory Manager (FS 02)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Program Assistant (LES 05)
Migration Integrity Officer (FS 03)
Migration Integrity Assistant (LES 06)
Refugees Program Assistant (LES 05)
[End of text version - back to Appendix A: Singapore Mission Organizational Chart ]

 

[O_guy]

Koifish76, very good analysis. Well done. You are probably right and that they have different officers assigned to different parts of the process. I don't have any problem with that. My simple point is to not get my hopes up. I was expecting PPR in September but it showed up 2 months early. And now I find that folks who submitted their application in February still have not received their passports back from the VO. So I'm simply saying that if I were working at the VO, I would only send PPR after the entire investigation is completed. They certainly do not need the actual passport to find out if the applicant had traveled to suspicious locations (or had coffee with Bin Ladin in the mountains of Afghanistan). After all, you have to put your passport number in the original application, which would aid with their investigation.

No reason to send PPR until after all of the officers have completed their respective investigations of a given application.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Koifish76, very good analysis. Well done. You are probably right and that they have different officers assigned to different parts of the process. I don't have any problem with that. My simple point is to not get my hopes up. I was expecting PPR in September but it showed up 2 months early. And now I find that folks who submitted their application in February still have not received their passports back from the VO. So I'm simply saying that if I were working at the VO, I would only send PPR after the entire investication is completed. They certainly do not need the actual passport to find out if the applicant had travelled to suspicious locations (or had coffee with Bin Ladin in the mountains of Afghanistan). After all, you have to put your passport number in the original application, which would aid with their investication.

No reason to send PPR until after all of the officers have completed their respective investications of a given application.

considering you are not an immigration officer, nor know the protocol and guidelines they must follow, there's no knowing what you would do if you were processing apps. Remember, the visa office needs to insert a visa counterfoil in the passport in order to process the PR approval. i can't imagine this is something that happens overnight. assuming the passport just sits there for no reason is unfounded. how do you know if they don't have to send them somewhere else to make this happen? you don't. how do you know they don't need to use the passport for any other reason during processing? you don't. you don't process applications. so you can't go around saying what you would do or not do if you had the job of processing pr applications.it doesn't matter what a publicly available "manual" says must happen. until you are in the postion of being an immigration officer processing PR applications, you can't know for sure how you would do the job. there is no way to know the ins and out of this particular job unless you are actually doing it! period.

also, stop comparing your app to others before you. just because february applicants still haven't received their passport back doesn't mean the same thing will happen in your case. there are plenty of february ottawa applicants still waiting for approval, yet march, april and may applicants have already been issued COPRs. There's no consistency to this system whatsoever, so it can't be expected every app will be handled the exact same way.

 

[MrJB]

Do you mind if I ask what was your process at the border where you live? Did you have to cross to the US or could you do a U-Turn without crossing? How long did it take?

I can help, at my borner office I had to cross all the way in - not do a u-turn. The US side gives you a form letter and back you go. That step took 30 minutes for me, 25 of which were sitting in the queue of cars resisting the urge to do a burnout to alleviate everyone's boredom...

 

[O_guy]

considering you are not an immigration officer, nor know the protocol and guidelines they must follow, there's no knowing what you would do if you were processing apps.

That is harsh, don't you think? Did I offend you some how? Of course none of us know the process. I was simply using common sense.

Remember, the visa office needs to insert a visa counterfoil in the passport in order to process the PR approval. i can't imagine this is something that happens overnight.

Every Government department has a Standard Operating Procedure (SOPs). It makes sense to assume the SOP of how to put a visa counterfoil in a passport is the same for all CIC offices. So why does the Paris VO take considerably shorter amount of time to issue visa after PPR than the Manila VO?

Assuming the passport just sits there for no reason is unfounded. how do you know if they don't have to send them somewhere else to make this happen? you don't.

What is unfounded is why you are criticizing me. Many of us come on this forum feeling frustrated by the process and we discuss this long process, and I have never seen someone get criticised like this. And if you do feel the need to go off on someone, why not do it over a private message.

also, stop comparing your app to others before you. just because february applicants still haven't received their passport back doesn't mean the same thing will happen in your case.

First, comparing our application processing times is what the spreadsheets are for. Secondly, it is not only February applicants. The Manila VO has requested passports from all the folks who put their timeline in the Manila VO spreadsheet up to and including the May applicants. However, no one who has submitted application since February has received their passport back.

 

[rhcohen2014]

That is harsh, don't you think? Did I offend you some how? Of course none of us know the process. I was simply using common sense.

no it's not. it's sheer frustration. i keep my mouth shut every time someone suggests they know what the job entails and that if they were these officers they'd do things differently. it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for someone to say this. period.

bottom line is, frustration is one thing. assuming you know exactly what the process "should" be because of a "standard operating procedure" is another, and in my opinion is completely ridiculous. do i know the reason why paris was once significantly faster than it is now and how they are able to get visas out quicker? of course not! do i pretend to know why may files are getting through in 3 months when dec, jan and feb applicants are still waiting? nope, i certainly don't. i provide pure opinion based on what i read on this forum., what the "trends" indicate, and what others share about there experience. no 2 applications are a alike, so no 2 processes can be exactly the same just because there are specific "Rules" they need to follow. do you do your job EXACTLY the same way as someone else in the same position as you where you work? my guess is no.

i am not trying to take away from the frustration of this process by any means. trust me. i was banned from canada for 1 year, and have spent the majority of my first year of marriage away from my husband. we all experience struggles, some are more than others because of where they are from. i can't help that. we all made the decision to date and marry people in another country. we all signd up for this process, and knew ahead of time what the wait times were. so we all need to accept the process AS IS. Do i consider myself lucky and grateful because i was approved 6-8 months before i thought I would be? absolutely! In reality, MOST applicants are getting approved way before the posted processing times, so i don't understand why that can't be celebrated? Your wife even did the "impossible" by getting a visitor's visa while having an application submitted, and is spending her time with you in canada until approval. why not enjoy THAT success and stop focusing on what's NOT happening or why 1 visa office is processing differently from another?

It is known most of this process is done in the dark. there is no way around it. there is no way to know anything about any of it. so that MUST be accepted. Blaming the officers that are handling the files for being incompetant and not doing their job correctly because someone else in another country is doing it differently than they are or that's not "what's written in their manual" is not going to make the wait any shorter or less frustrating. Call me crazy, it makes absolutely NO sense to me to suggest we know more than they do about their rules.

i guess we will have to agree to disagree on the fact that we as applicants and sponsors know more about what the job entails or what the officers are "suppose" to do because of reading a "standard operating procedure" manual made public probably just so CIC can appear to be transparent in their role in the government.

 

[O_guy]

Your wife even did the "impossible" by getting a visitor's visa while having an application submitted, and is spending her time with you in canada until approval. why not enjoy THAT success and stop focusing on what's NOT happening or why 1 visa office is processing differently from another?

Actually, it is still my right to feel frustrated. On the other hand, you do not have the right to tell me what to feel. Visitor visa doesn't give someone the benefits one gets by being Canadian Permanent Resident.

Let's recap. All I did wrong was say, "If I were VO Officer, I would not send PPR until the investigation is completed." Then you went off about how I'm not a CIC officer and I don't know anything. Someone made you angry today. Do not take it out on me.

 

[rhcohen2014]

Actually, it is still my right to feel frustrated. On the other hand, you do not have the right to tell me what to feel. Visitor visa doesn't give someone all the benefits one gets by being Canadian Permanent Resident.

Let's recap. All I did wrong was say, "If I were VO Officer, I would not send PPR until the investigation is completed." Then you went off about how I'm not a CIC officer and I don't know anything. Someone made you angry today. Do not take it out on me.

all i said is you have no right to assume you know how you'd do the job if you had the job because you DONT HAVE THAT JOB! How is that telling you how you "should" feel? i NEVER "should" people. i never said you don't have the right to feel frustrated, nor did i EVER say what you can or can not feel. please show me where i said this? perhaps you are reading my words as you wish to read them, not as they are intended. YOU are the one who got offended by my opinion after all. kindly reread my responses and show me where i ever ever mentioned you "should" be feeling this way, or you "shouldn't" be feeling that way. i just reread them, and don't see where i said that.

um, and i know fully well what rights visitors of canada do and don't have. hello, i visit there often, and have to deal with the border agents regularly. i've even met you and your wife and have provided insight about how to keep busy, where to volunteer, how to gain canadian references and what services will be available upon landing.

and yes, someone certainly did get me angry... that would be YOU! if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post. it's pretty simple. i am not going to respond anymore, becasuse now you are just getting nasty. enough is enough o-guy. i will just do as you wish and keep my little mouth shut and not express my opinion or provide advice anymore on this thread. is that ok with you sir? pfffff!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[O_guy]

all i said is you have no right to assume you know how you'd do the job if you had the job because you DONT HAVE THAT JOB!

Hell, I even have the right to say, “If I were President Obama, I would send troops back to Iraq.” After all, it is just my opinion and no one has the right to attack me for it and tell me I don't know what I would do because I “DONT HAVE THAT JOB”.

and yes, someone certainly did get me angry... that would be YOU! if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post.

First of all, don't compare yourself to “people”. You are the only one who responded with, "considering you are not an immigration officer, nor know the protocol and guidelines they must follow....." Your response IN PUBLIC directed to me was very negative. You could have chosen to message me in private.