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[CanadianJeepGuy]

A June applicant got their visa already. I'm not expecting a visa right away : just wishing for some kind of request for a passport or whatever documents they might need.

Ya. We are waiting for that as well. They haven't even replied to the written request we submitted at the embassy last October. Pretty disappointed with the whole process. Especially when later applications jump past yours.

 

[tuyen]

They haven't even replied to the written request we submitted at the embassy last October. Pretty disappointed with the whole process. Especially when later applications jump past yours.

Why did you feel it was necessary to start hounding the embassy just two months after they started working on your application? Based on that alone, I'm not at all surprised they haven't replied to you.

Manila's processing time is 11 months...and you've been waiting 4 months so far. What exactly are you "disappointed" with? :

 

[Steph C]

Why did you feel it was necessary to start hounding the embassy just two months after they started working on your application? Based on that alone, I'm not at all surprised they haven't replied to you.

Manila's processing time is 11 months...and you've been waiting 4 months so far. What exactly are you "disappointed" with? :

Tuyen, I have no idea where you came from or when, but the applicants from early May like CJG and I got shafted in stage 1 with an extremely long wait time, while our applications seemed to have been skipped over in favour of those who applied later in the month.

.. Plus I think they lost a bunch of Canadian Jeep Guy's stuff. Am I right on that?

 

[tuyen]

Tuyen, I have no idea where you came from or when, but the applicants from early May like CJG and I got shafted in stage 1 with an extremely long wait time, while our applications seemed to have been skipped over in favour of those who applied later in the month.

.. Plus I think they lost a bunch of Canadian Jeep Guy's stuff. Am I right on that?

I'm simply going by the information in his profile, which says he received his AOR on August 16, 2012. That was 4 months ago.

A lot of people make the mistake of counting their processing time from the moment they submitted their application, when in fact they have to start counting only from the AOR date, which is the date they actually started looking at your application.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Why did you feel it was necessary to start hounding the embassy just two months after they started working on your application? Based on that alone, I'm not at all surprised they haven't replied to you.

Manila's processing time is 11 months...and you've been waiting 4 months so far. What exactly are you "disappointed" with? :

Our complete application was received May 10th 2012. The stage 1 processing time was approximately 89 days as per the CIC website. While others who applied days or weeks after mine were receiving their sponsorship approvals I had still not received any word. I made a dozen calls to CIC and given conflicting information our application was still not in the system well past the 89 days. After contacting my MP I received an email stating that my file had been transfered from Mississauga to Ottawa and was missing 2 sponsorship documents and my wife's passport photos. Despite the missing documents they opened and ECAS account and gave me 2 months to send them the missing portions. Within 3.5 weeks I had sent them the missing documents and then waited another 2 months to receive my sponsorship approval. So 150 days to receive what most received in 89 days or less. Thats and additional 2 months more to wait. Our file was transferred mid October. I believe the first May applicant received their PR at the end of November. Others continue to get them prior to Xmas. There has been no change in ECAS. It says nothing more than application received.

I paid for this service. This is not provided to me because I'm a Canadian citizen and a taxpayer. So I view this process from the position of being a customer. As a customer my expectation is to have this service processed fairly and in a timely manner. Seeing late May and July applicants receive their PR's while my ECAS remains unchanged is not the service I believe I paid for nor am entitled to.

This is why I am disappointed.

 

[tuyen]

Our complete application was received May 10th 2012.

As I've tried to explain (multiple times), the day you SHOULD be counting from is the AOR date (August 16, 2012). That's the date on which somebody at CIC actually opened up your application to begin working on it. The other date (May 10, 2012) is completely meaningless. That's just the day that the mail man dropped off your package at CIC's office. Your processing time begins ON YOUR AOR DATE, and NOT on May 12.

I paid for this service. This is not provided to me because I'm a Canadian citizen and a taxpayer. So I view this process from the position of being a customer. As a customer my expectation is to have this service processed fairly and in a timely manner.

If you're still waiting AFTER the 11 month processing time, then I would say you had every right to complain about untimely service. But the published times clearly state that Manila is 11 months, and that's for 80% of applications, which means it could be up to 13-14 months for some people.

Seeing late May and July applicants receive their PR's while my ECAS remains unchanged is not the service I believe I paid for nor am entitled to.

You're making a common mistake of thinking that everyone should be processed at the same time. That's simply not how it works. Yes, some people will send in applications after yours, and they'll get them done sooner. So what? That's just luck of the draw.

There are multiple people at each visa office working on different groups of applications. Some work faster, some work slower. Some encounter more problems with applications, some encounter fewer problems.

And yes, I understand that your application had various issues with missing documents/photos and whatever the case might be. But even if there was none of that, and your application was completely perfect from day one with absolutely no problems, you would STILL have to understand that it could take between 11-14 months to get your final approval.

As things stand right now, you're only 4 and a half months into the 11-14 month process. So right now you just need to be patient, and remind yourself that you COULD have another 10 months to go. In all probability, it won't take that long, but if it does, you would still be within the posted processing times for Manila.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

As I've tried to explain (multiple times), the day you SHOULD be counting from is the AOR date (August 16, 2012). That's the date on which somebody at CIC actually opened up your application to begin working on it. The other date (May 10, 2012) is completely meaningless. That's just the day that the mail man dropped off your package at CIC's office. Your processing time begins ON YOUR AOR DATE, and NOT on May 12.

The clock starts upon the receipt of your application. This has been confirmed by CIC and my MPs office. This is why I had to wait after the posted 89 days for stage 1 before my MP would make inquiries on my behalf. Thats about 3 months

If you're still waiting AFTER the 11 month processing time, then I would say you had every right to complain about untimely service. But the published times clearly state that Manila is 11 months, and that's for 80% of applications, which means it could be up to 13-14 months for some people.

Again 11 months is the total expected processing time from receipt of application through both stages. This is why the date in ECAS is the receipt day not the day your application was opened.


You're making a common mistake of thinking that everyone should be processed at the same time. That's simply not how it works. Yes, some people will send in applications after yours, and they'll get them done sooner. So what? That's just luck of the draw.

I am drawing the conclusion applications once they are opened are worked on until they are completed. Not opened , reviewed, left on a desk then repackaged and moved to another office on the other side of the province missing the very documents that they would have first removed upon opening my application.
I did not submit my application to CasinoRama. There should be no luck involved. Why is any office working on July applications when May applications are still left?

There are multiple people at each visa office working on different groups of applications. Some work faster, some work slower. Some encounter more problems with applications, some encounter fewer problems.

There are no issues with my application. No kids no previous marriages all the supporting documentation is there. Again Why are they processing July applications when May applications are still outstanding. I would fire that office manager if they are just grabbing whatever file is lying around.

And yes, I understand that your application had various issues with missing documents/photos and whatever the case might be. But even if there was none of that, and your application was completely perfect from day one with absolutely no problems, you would STILL have to understand that it could take between 11-14 months to get your final approval.

Thats correct. It can take up to 11 months but for those that I've seen get their final approvals it has been anywhere from 6 to 8 months from date of submission.

As things stand right now, you're only 4 and a half months into the 11-14 month process. So right now you just need to be patient, and remind yourself that you COULD have another 10 months to go. In all probability, it won't take that long, but if it does, you would still be within the posted processing times for Manila.

As it stands I am 7 months into the process. Five of those were spent getting stage 1 confirmed. As I have said I am a customer of CIC and they have an obligation to manage all applications fairly and in a timely manner. This is obviously not the case for some of us.

"The waiting time for sponsorship of spouses that was reduced after the implementation of new Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in 2002 to average 6 months has now been gradually extended to more than 12 months in certain cases."

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

As it stands from the spreadsheets there is 1 June Manila VO applicant who has received their COPR on the 12th of december another has gone to "In Process". Still 18 May applicants who are waiting for COPR. From those there are 7 still waiting for ECAS to change to "In Process". Five May applicants have received their COPR's.

 

[tuyen]

The clock starts upon the receipt of your application. This has been confirmed by CIC and my MPs office

You seem to be confusing two different types of "receipt" when it comes to your application. The first receipt is when the mail man drops off your application into the building. That's when CIC physically gets your package. The second receipt is when CIC actually OPENS your package and sends you the AOR to let you know "we've opened your package, and we're sending you a confirmation to let you know we're starting to work on it".

In case you forgot, AOR stands for "Acknowledgement of Receipt". Did you notice that your application arrived at their building on May 12 by courier, but you didn't get the actual "receipt" acknowledgement until August? Why do you think that is? Why didn't they send you the AOR on May 13...or May 14...or May 15...or any other time between May and August? The reason is simple: because they didn't start working on your application UNTIL the AOR date. August 16 was the day when the clock started ticking. This is the "receipt of your application" that you referred to, and you're absolutely correct. The clock starts upon the receipt of your application, but not the mail man's delivery date.

 

[scos]

In case you forgot, AOR stands for "Acknowledgement of Receipt". Did you notice that your application arrived at their building on May 12 by courier, but you didn't get the actual "receipt" acknowledgement until August? Why do you think that is? Why didn't they send you the AOR on May 13...or May 14...or May 15...or any other time between May and August? The reason is simple: because they didn't start working on your application UNTIL the AOR date. August 16 was the day when the clock started ticking. This is the "receipt of your application" that you referred to, and you're absolutely correct. The clock starts upon the receipt of your application, but not the mail man's delivery date.

You can argue this AOR thing all you want but I understand CJG's situation entirely. IF the wait from May to August was due to processing backlog then I can understand your reasoning. BUT that is NOT entirely the case. I know in my own case mine was delivered on August 1st. So why then should people who had theirs delivered AFTER me actually get theirs processed AHEAD of me. That is WRONG! I don't care how you want to spin it, it is WRONG! If CIC were a company they would have lost their customers with service like that.

I'm willing to bet the reason for all the out of order processing was to manipulate the processing statistics to make the stage one processing times look better than they actually were. At least that is (somewhat) more comforting than simple incompetence.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

You seem to be confusing two different types of "receipt" when it comes to your application. The first receipt is when the mail man drops off your application into the building. That's when CIC physically gets your package. The second receipt is when CIC actually OPENS your package and sends you the AOR to let you know "we've opened your package, and we're sending you a confirmation to let you know we're starting to work on it".

In case you forgot, AOR stands for "Acknowledgement of Receipt". Did you notice that your application arrived at their building on May 12 by courier, but you didn't get the actual "receipt" acknowledgement until August? Why do you think that is? Why didn't they send you the AOR on May 13...or May 14...or May 15...or any other time between May and August? The reason is simple: because they didn't start working on your application UNTIL the AOR date. August 16 was the day when the clock started ticking. This is the "receipt of your application" that you referred to, and you're absolutely correct. The clock starts upon the receipt of your application, but not the mail man's delivery date.

You seem to be confusing yourself.
The application comes in 2 stages. Stage 1 has a time frame for completion. In my case it was 89 days. The clock started when it arrived at the CIC mailroom and was received. The number of days CIC has to complete the stage 1 process begins then. My MP would not make inquiries on my behalf until my application had exceeded the posted time on the CIC website. On day 97 I met with my MP who made a call to CIC. On day 98 I received and email from CIC stating that my application had been moved to Ottawa and was missing 2 sponsorship forms and my wife's passport photos. I have never received an AOR. CIC should have returned my application since it was incomplete but instead they created and ECAS account for me anyway. They know that they misplaced part of my file and gave me 2 months to resend the missing portions. Even then it took them another 5 weeks to approve the sponsorship. That is the only official statement I have received from CIC.
The total expected time to complete both stage 1 and 2 is 11 months as per the CIC website. This is a projected time frame and not an actual time frame. In case you are unaware Canada's population growth is predominantly dependant on immigration. In 2002, I believe, was this introduction of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in which it stated that CIC's joint application process spousal applications should not exceed a processing time of 6 months...total.
They recognized the desparity between the wait times in New Delhi (3 months) to those in Buffalo (20 months). The goal is to process all spousal applications within 6 months.
Read this: http://www.cba.org/cba/submissions/pdf/05-20-eng.pdf
Anyway the point is ECAS says they received my application May 10th 2012. Thats when the clock starts. Most people receive no notice until sponsorship has been approved. How then are they to be able to gauge the length of time they have been waiting?
Thanks for your interest though.

 

[tuyen]

I know in my own case mine was delivered on August 1st. So why then should people who had theirs delivered AFTER me actually get theirs processed AHEAD of me. That is WRONG! I don't care how you want to spin it, it is WRONG! If CIC were a company they would have lost their customers with service like that.

I'm willing to bet the reason for all the out of order processing was to manipulate the processing statistics to make the stage one processing times look better than they actually were. At least that is (somewhat) more comforting than simple incompetence.

You're so utterly clueless, it's almost cute.

Think about how a visa office is set up, and TRY to imagine how applications are processed. There are multiple people working on applications in every visa office. Those people each receive groups of applications on their desks at any given time. EACH APPLICATION IS DIFFERENT. Some require a lot of processing time, others require very little processing time. Some need a lot of thorough background checks, others need very little. Some have missing documents that require constant back-and-forth communication with the applicant, while others have nothing missing and are processed far more quickly.

You seem to think that all applications are processed on a first-come, first-served basis....and that's simply NOT how it works. Just because someone else's application gets done before yours, doesn't mean there's some grand conspiracy by CIC to try and manipulate the statistics. :

 

[tuyen]

On day 97 I met with my MP who made a call to CIC. On day 98 I received and email from CIC stating that my application had been moved to Ottawa and was missing 2 sponsorship forms and my wife's passport photos.

Wow...I'm shocked. Totally and completely shocked!

Are you saying that immediately after you got your local politician to start nagging CIC, your application started having problems!? Oh my god...I NEVER saw that one coming. Never.

Oh wait...come to think of it...I did see it coming, and have been trying to warn people about it:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1855911#msg1855911

and

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1860061#msg1860061

and

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1861172#msg1861172

It always fascinates me when you try to warn people and tell them exactly what will happen, and then they ignore you, and when everything you predicted comes true, they sit there with this dumbfounded look on their face wondering why.

I have never received an AOR.

That's interesting...because in your profile, YOU were the one who put August 16, 2012 as your AOR date. So if you didn't receive the AOR, does that mean you completely made up that date? :

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

You're so utterly clueless, it's almost cute.

Think about how a visa office is set up, and TRY to imagine how applications are processed. There are multiple people working on applications in every visa office. Those people each receive groups of applications on their desks at any given time. EACH APPLICATION IS DIFFERENT. Some require a lot of processing time, others require very little processing time. Some need a lot of thorough background checks, others need very little. Some have missing documents that require constant back-and-forth communication with the applicant, while others have nothing missing and are processed far more quickly.

You seem to think that all applications are processed on a first-come, first-served basis....and that's simply NOT how it works. Just because someone else's application gets done before yours, doesn't mean there's some grand conspiracy by CIC to try and manipulate the statistics. :

CIC is a government office in which politics plays as much a part as policy. I don't view it as a conspiracy so much as a bureaucracy. I work for the Post Office and see manipulation of information daily. Parcels charged by weight weighed on scales that have not been calibrated in decades off by 6lbs. Supervisors sending couriers out with late priority items logged manually on paper instead of electronically so they can alter the actual delivery times. Both CIC and the Post Office operate on organizational templates since those that make all the decisions are not directly involved in the daily logistics. The template expresses the goals and how to arrive there but the reality is often very different at the operational level. Employees work as best they can with the equipment and environment they have. Managers do their best to merge the reality with the fantasy which often times means misrepresenting the truth. So it is not a conspiracy but business as usual. The stats are manipulated to achieve political ends. Indian immigrants have the largest growing political influence in all 3 levels of politics. Look at how fast applications are processed out of New Delhi. You would have to be pretty naive not to see that there is something rather strange going on if it takes 4-6 months to get processed out of New Delhi and 20 months to get processed through Buffalo (when it was open).

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Wow...I'm shocked. Totally and completely shocked!

Are you saying that immediately after you got your local politician to start nagging CIC, your application started having problems!? Oh my god...I NEVER saw that one coming. Never.

Oh wait...come to think of it...I did see it coming, and have been trying to warn people about it:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1855911#msg1855911

and

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1860061#msg1860061

and

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/member-of-parliament-communique-in-writing-t123425.0.html;msg1861172#msg1861172

It always fascinates me when you try to warn people and tell them exactly what will happen, and then they ignore you, and when everything you predicted comes true, they sit there with this dumbfounded look on their face wondering why.



That's interesting...because in your profile, YOU were the one who put August 16, 2012 as your AOR date. So if you didn't receive the AOR, does that mean you completely made up that date? :

Quoting yourself drawing anecdotal conclusions proves nothing.

The problem with my application preceded any inquiry my MP made on my behalf.

My complete application was transferred from Mississauga to Ottawa where it magically became incomplete. CIC should have returned it as is their policy but they didn't. Why? Because they knew they lost part of it and it sat in a pile waiting for those documents to reappear. My MP's inquiry got it back into motion. No longer able to wait they sent me an email before they responded to my MP's inquiry concerning the condition of my application. They did not return it to me but instead opened a file and gave me time to replace those documents that were lost. Even then it took another 7 weeks to receive my sponsorship approval. One of the last if not the last of the May applicants.

I never received an AOR but that was the only place in our profiles that I could update the activity on my application. That was the date I received an email from CIC concerning it being incomplete. They passed that along to my MP the following day who then informed me of it later that day. I have since ammended it for you. If you are still confused I would be happy to break out the finger puppets and the etch-a-sketch to simplify it further.