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Man with 4 wives, do the other 3 wives apply as dependents or co business owners?

EgyBest

Newbie
Aug 30, 2019
5
0
I have never been presented with this dilemma before. I usually facilitate skilled worker or student visa's, but have been approached by the father of one of my past students to facilitate an investor visa, which I initially agreed to.

However I was later presented with the dilemma that he has 4 wives under Islamic law. I told him Polygamy is considered bigamy in Canada & is NOT recognized & is even considered illegal, & that only one wife will be considered a spouse. Although many people practice it openly in Canada but the extra spouses are not recognized as spouses, but life goes on.

However if he has the money to care of them all & can make sure they will not be a burden on the government, then it should be straight forward, right?

The question is, HOW?

To register their application:
  1. Either as dependents (but under which sub-clause, I don't think one exists)
  2. Or as partners in the new to be branch in Canada of his registered multinational company that is registered in Dubai- UAE (Which they all in fact are).
I don't know how to initially go about this one.

He doesn't trust immigration lawyers as he was scammed by one in the past & say most of the rest over charge.

I know this is a culturally sensitive controversial topic, but just seeing if I can receive any helpful info to proceed with his investor visa.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
21,919
4,945
I have never been presented with this dilemma before. I usually facilitate skilled worker or student visa's, but have been approached by the father of one of my past students to facilitate an investor visa, which I initially agreed to.

However I was later presented with the dilemma that he has 4 wives under Islamic law. I told him Polygamy is considered bigamy in Canada & is NOT recognized & is even considered illegal, & that only one wife will be considered a spouse. Although many people practice it openly in Canada but the extra spouses are not recognized as spouses, but life goes on.

However if he has the money to care of them all & can make sure they will not be a burden on the government, then it should be straight forward, right?

The question is, HOW?

To register their application:
  1. Either as dependents (but under which sub-clause, I don't think one exists)
  2. Or as partners in the new to be branch in Canada of his registered multinational company that is registered Dubai- (Which they all in fact are).
I don't know how to initially go about this one.

He doesn't trust immigration lawyers as he was scammed by one in the past & say most of the rest over charge.

I know this is a culturally sensitive controversial topic, but just seeing if I can receive any helpful info to proceed with his investor visa.

Thanks in advance.
Unless the other 3 wives qualify for immigration based on their own education, age, language skills, money they can’t come to Canada.
 
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EgyBest

Newbie
Aug 30, 2019
5
0
"So they have to qualify on their own," that's fine. But as partners in his business, all will apply separately, that makes sense.

Unless the other 3 wives qualify for immigration based on their own education, age, language skills, money
There is a waiver for language & skills as long as you are an investor & have the money. Will this mean the other 3 wives will each have to post the minimum investment, or can they be partners in the business worth multiple times what the minimum requirement is for each individual?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
21,919
4,945
"So they have to qualify on their own," that's fine. But as partners in his business, all will apply separately, that makes sense.



There is a waiver for language & skills as long as you are an investor & have the money. Will this mean the other 3 wives will each have to post the minimum investment, or can they be partners in the business worth multiple times what the minimum requirement is for each individual?
@21Goose said it right. If you are an immigration professional You should be paying lawyers to explain the laws to you not a forum. These women are wives first and foremost. It is all over their documents and the name of the father will be associate with all their children. He will only be allowed to bring one wife under the investor program.
 

EgyBest

Newbie
Aug 30, 2019
5
0
Right I'm out of this thread. It's getting a little too close to telling people how to circumvent immigration law. All I'll say is that IRCC isn't stupid and won't let your client bring his four wives over under the guise of "partners", even if they are really partners in the business. Polygamy is a crime in this country.
I am picking up the hint that it can in fact be done legally because you used the word circumvent -- but my intention is to proceed without circumventing any laws in this somewhat challenging case. He was already told by several immigration lawyers including a subordinate of one we all know, that it can be done, but naturally they didn't explain how exactly.

Now if they are all in fact partners in his company which I assure you they all are, they would gladly be granted investor visa's.

Is one saying that because they are his wives their money is not real, nor good enough for Canada which facilitates cultural diversity & protects freedom of religion as long as it is not hurting anyone, and they are not breaking any federal or provincial laws, by attempting to legally register their marriages in Canada? The government is stupid as you said & they already know that many of their citizens practice polygamy that is not legal polygamy under Canadian law. We have Huderite colonies in Alberta where underage girls are married with the consent of their parents to men the age of their grandfathers for Pete's sake..

As I said, this is a sensitive & controversial subject, and I didn't expect to get open book advice on it, but just more or less discuss the legality of it & apparatus to make it happen, as long as it is all by the book. As they are good people who can contribute a lot to society & we shouldn't judge just because its foreign to us.

There is a rule of law, and based on the advice of several immigration lawyers, it can be legally done.

My aim is to save $12,000 & get it done with open source instead.

Thanks for your feedback all the same.

Cheers
 

EgyBest

Newbie
Aug 30, 2019
5
0
@21Goose said it right. If you are an immigration professional You should be paying lawyers to explain the laws to you not a forum. These women are wives first and foremost. It is all over their documents and the name of the father will be associate with all their children. He will only be allowed to bring one wife under the investor program.
Thanks Canuck78, please read my prior post.
 

EgyBest

Newbie
Aug 30, 2019
5
0
Wow. You're seriously bringing up "underage girls married to old men" to bolster your argument? That's an instant block from me.
Oh come on already. I was countering your argument of legality. All I mentioned is legal & tolerated under Canadian law mate, so by all means, If you can't stand the heat then best you get out of the kitchen.
 

canuck_in_uk

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May 4, 2012
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I have never been presented with this dilemma before. I usually facilitate skilled worker or student visa's, but have been approached by the father of one of my past students to facilitate an investor visa, which I initially agreed to.

However I was later presented with the dilemma that he has 4 wives under Islamic law. I told him Polygamy is considered bigamy in Canada & is NOT recognized & is even considered illegal, & that only one wife will be considered a spouse. Although many people practice it openly in Canada but the extra spouses are not recognized as spouses, but life goes on.

However if he has the money to care of them all & can make sure they will not be a burden on the government, then it should be straight forward, right?

The question is, HOW?

To register their application:
  1. Either as dependents (but under which sub-clause, I don't think one exists)
  2. Or as partners in the new to be branch in Canada of his registered multinational company that is registered in Dubai- UAE (Which they all in fact are).
I don't know how to initially go about this one.

He doesn't trust immigration lawyers as he was scammed by one in the past & say most of the rest over charge.

I know this is a culturally sensitive controversial topic, but just seeing if I can receive any helpful info to proceed with his investor visa.

Thanks in advance.
The first wife is his legal wife and is a dependent. The others are not dependants. They would need to qualify independently for immigration. I'm going to guess that he has the money and runs the business, so they will not meet the requirements to qualify on their own merits. Him giving them money doesn't count. Being made partners in name in his business grants them nothing in terms of immigration.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
21,919
4,945
I am picking up the hint that it can in fact be done legally because you used the word circumvent -- but my intention is to proceed without circumventing any laws in this somewhat challenging case. He was already told by several immigration lawyers including a subordinate of one we all know, that it can be done, but naturally they didn't explain how exactly.

Now if they are all in fact partners in his company which I assure you they all are, they would gladly be granted investor visa's.

Is one saying that because they are his wives their money is not real, nor good enough for Canada which facilitates cultural diversity & protects freedom of religion as long as it is not hurting anyone, and they are not breaking any federal or provincial laws, by attempting to legally register their marriages in Canada? The government is stupid as you said & they already know that many of their citizens practice polygamy that is not legal polygamy under Canadian law. We have Huderite colonies in Alberta where underage girls are married with the consent of their parents to men the age of their grandfathers for Pete's sake..

As I said, this is a sensitive & controversial subject, and I didn't expect to get open book advice on it, but just more or less discuss the legality of it & apparatus to make it happen, as long as it is all by the book. As they are good people who can contribute a lot to society & we shouldn't judge just because its foreign to us.

There is a rule of law, and based on the advice of several immigration lawyers, it can be legally done.

My aim is to save $12,000 & get it done with open source instead.

Thanks for your feedback all the same.

Cheers
Not sure who you are spending time with but people certainly don't openly practice polygamy in Canada and it is definitely not accepted by the majority of Canadians.

There is no legal way to do this and don't know why you would involve yourself in this or want to save this man 12k unless you are somehow involved in this whole thing. If you lie to immigration you will also be a committing a crime. Unfortunately there has been at least one famous case of polygamy where a man, his wife and his son drowned his two girls and what was declared as his sister in law (really his 1st wife). Now that Canada has eliminated a lot of sponsorship of family members and the fact that there is 4 wives and likely children from each marriage it would be inpossible to find a scheme to try a trick the Canadian governement.

Why you would want to involve yourself in an attempt to commit immigration fraud and want to encourage someone to break Canadian laws boggles my mind.
 

scylla

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I have never been presented with this dilemma before. I usually facilitate skilled worker or student visa's, but have been approached by the father of one of my past students to facilitate an investor visa, which I initially agreed to.

However I was later presented with the dilemma that he has 4 wives under Islamic law. I told him Polygamy is considered bigamy in Canada & is NOT recognized & is even considered illegal, & that only one wife will be considered a spouse. Although many people practice it openly in Canada but the extra spouses are not recognized as spouses, but life goes on.

However if he has the money to care of them all & can make sure they will not be a burden on the government, then it should be straight forward, right?

The question is, HOW?

To register their application:
  1. Either as dependents (but under which sub-clause, I don't think one exists)
  2. Or as partners in the new to be branch in Canada of his registered multinational company that is registered in Dubai- UAE (Which they all in fact are).
I don't know how to initially go about this one.

He doesn't trust immigration lawyers as he was scammed by one in the past & say most of the rest over charge.

I know this is a culturally sensitive controversial topic, but just seeing if I can receive any helpful info to proceed with his investor visa.

Thanks in advance.
I won't get into the politics - just give a straight answer.

1. Not possible since they are not classified as dependents. There is no way to include them.
2. Potentially possible but not without significant complications. Only certain investor programs allow multiple foreign investors for immigration purposes. He'll need to research to figure out which ones. Each one of them (including the husband) would have to apply and qualify individually - and also at the same time. This isn't a situation where the three wives can qualify and apply later - they would have to qualify and apply at the same time as the husband - all as independent investors in the same company. I believe there's generally a requirement for each investor to show that they have a 10% ownership in the company (that probably varies with the different programs - again, he will need to research). Each of them will also have to meet the financial requirements independently and show that they have the net worth required (again, individually) and the funds to invest in the business in Canada (again, individually) - it would have to be clear that the funds are actually theirs. Each will also have to meet other program requirements individually (e.g. including IELTS and any education minimum requirements or points, if it's a points-based program). This is not a "do it yourself". He would need the help of a very good immigration lawyer to guide him through this.
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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Toronto
Category........
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28-06-2010
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My aim is to save $12,000 & get it done with open source instead.
Just to underscore this (also mentioned this in my previous response) - IMHO this is absolutely NOT a "do it yourself" case. I'm typically a huge fan of "do it yourself". This is simply too complex an application with far too many chances for things to go wrong. Example: If IRCC thinks anything has been "structured" to facilitate the immigration of the three wives - the situation could quickly turn into a refusal and 5 year misrepresentation ban for everyone involved. IMO they need to find a Canadian immigration lawyer with a very strong reputation who specializes in business immigration and be prepared to swallow the $10-$15M fee as a cost of doing business.
 

zardoz

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https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-293.html

Polygamy
  • 293 (1) Every one who
    • (a) practises or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practise or enter into
      • (i) any form of polygamy, or

      • (ii) any kind of conjugal union with more than one person at the same time,
      whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage, or

    • (b) celebrates, assists or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a relationship mentioned in subparagraph (a)(i) or (ii),
    is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

  • Evidence in case of polygamy

    (2) Where an accused is charged with an offence under this section, no averment or proof of the method by which the alleged relationship was entered into, agreed to or consented to is necessary in the indictment or on the trial of the accused, nor is it necessary on the trial to prove that the persons who are alleged to have entered into the relationship had or intended to have sexual intercourse.
So, even if they were admitted to Canada separately, they would still be breaking the law.
 
Last edited:

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
61,219
7,915
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
All I mentioned is legal & tolerated under Canadian law
It's actually illegal by law. However that law is often not actioned.

So legal - no. Tolerated - yes.
 

Bs65

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Mar 22, 2016
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So maybe I missed it in this thread but are there children involved here given they would need to be included as dependants and somewhere would assume the 3 wives who cannot be declared as dependants would be mentioned somewhere or at least have to give their consent if the children are part of the plan whether accompanying or not.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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It's actually illegal by law. However that law is often not actioned.

So legal - no. Tolerated - yes.
Wouldn’t say tolerated because most are not open to the general public. Would say that it is openly practiced in some populations.

Definitely not something to get involved with as a friend or acquaintance.