Lost PR Status when I was a child. Can I get it back as an adult?

[jgatt]

Back in 2005, my parents' application for a Canadian PR was approved. My sister and I also became PR holders as minor dependents at the same time. I was 11-12 years old at the time. We travelled to Canada the same year and received our PR Cards and Social Security Cards. However, due to the failing health of my grandfather, we had to return to India soon after. While my parents came back once later, they had to return back again due to family issues.

We didn't go back to meet our residency obligations and assumed that our PR Status was lost.

Later, around 2015-16, my sister applied for a study permit to study in Canada and the application was approved. Both my parents also applied for a tourist visa to accompany her on her journey to Canada. My mother was granted a TRV, while my father was asked to renounce his existing PR status for the first time to be able to secure a TRV and he did the needful. In summary, both my sister and mother were granted TRVs without any notification about still having a PR status. Since only my father was asked to renounce his, we assumed that our PR status was not valid anymore and we can only apply for TRVs to visit Canada.

In November 2021 (28 yo now), I applied for a study permit after securing admission in an Ontario University. After a long wait, on Feb 17, I received a letter from IRCC stating that I may still have PR status in Canada and that I must either apply for a PRTD or renounce it to continue my study permit application. This is the first time I had heard anything about having PR Status in Canada. I had assumed that it wasn't valid anymore, since my family members (co-applicants back in 2005), were granted TRVs by IRCC.

Around the same time, my sister also applied for a multi-entry visa while on her PGWP, so she could visit India and re-enter Canada afterwards. For the first time, IRCC informed her that she had PR status this whole time and that she should apply to renew her PR Card, since she completed her residency obligations while studying. IRCC had made a mistake in granting her TRVs before this. She has applied for a PR Card since then and should get it soon.

In summary, I had originally applied to study in Canada, assuming that I no longer had PR status there based on my family being issued TRVs all this time. However, if possible, I would like to reinstate my PR status and withdraw my study permit application.

One lawyer has recommended that I enter via US land border and try to convince the office on H&C grounds. Another said to apply for PRTD on H&C grounds. Another said to just go for the study permit. Getting divergent advice.

What are my chances of restoring my PR Status, considering I was a minor when I lost it and that IRCC led my family to believe that we didn't have it anymore? This is literally the first possible chance that I see of going back to Canada since I became an adult, since I had no clue I had PR status still. But could I convince an officer of this?

 

[armoured]

Your biggest challenge in re-applying now is your age - the 'removed-as-minor' argument is given more weight when the applicant is applying shortly after reaching age of majority (i.e. when no longer a minor), closer to 18 years. It seems from your post that you are getting closer to 28-30.

Therefore a PRTD may well result in denial and revocation of PR status.

Do you have a visa to enter USA? You could try that. They would have to let you in pending appeal. You would face great difficulty in terms of settling in canada (health care, sin, documentation, etc) and still face a difficult appeal that you could lose (some would say likely to lose).

 

[jgatt]

Your biggest challenge in re-applying now is your age - the 'removed-as-minor' argument is given more weight when the applicant is applying shortly after reaching age of majority (i.e. when no longer a minor), closer to 18 years. It seems from your post that you are getting closer to 28-30.

Therefore a PRTD may well result in denial and revocation of PR status.

Do you have a visa to enter USA? You could try that. They would have to let you in pending appeal. You would face great difficulty in terms of settling in canada (health care, sin, documentation, etc) and still face a difficult appeal that you could lose (some would say likely to lose).

Thanks for the reply!

I am 28 now and I do have a valid US visa.

I understand that being 28, the removed as minor argument holds lesser weight. But do you think that the fact that IRCC has been issuing my family Tourist Visas, Study Permits and Work Permits since I was around 20 yo, without telling them that we still have our PR status will make my argument stronger?

Also, is there a chance the officer at the border will let me in without reporting me for removal?

The worst part is, that I have to make my decision in 2 days. What would you suggest? Renouncing my PR for the study permit or giving my PR status a shot through one of these routes?

 

[scylla]

I agree with the above. PRTD based on H&C grounds has a pretty low chance of succeeding due to your age.

Best option would be to re-enter Canada through a land border. Assuming you aren't reported by CBSA, best next step would be to wait for 2 years in Canada before you apply to renew your PR card (i.e. not apply for your PR card under H&C).

 

[jgatt]

Thanks for the reply!

I am 28 now and I do have a valid US visa.

I understand that being 28, the removed as minor argument holds lesser weight. But do you think that the fact that IRCC has been issuing my family Tourist Visas, Study Permits and Work Permits since I was around 20 yo, without telling them that we still have our PR status will make my argument stronger?

Also, is there a chance the officer at the border will let me in without reporting me for removal?

The worst part is, that I have to make my decision in 2 days. What would you suggest? Renouncing my PR for the study permit or giving my PR status a shot through one of these routes?

PS - 2 years because IRCC gave me only 10 days to upload my renunciation letter to continue the study permit app. They have said that I can upload an explanation to request for an extension. Though I don't know if I should ask for one and risk de-railing it.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the reply!

I am 28 now and I do have a valid US visa.

I understand that being 28, the removed as minor argument holds lesser weight. But do you think that the fact that IRCC has been issuing my family Tourist Visas, Study Permits and Work Permits since I was around 20 yo, without telling them that we still have our PR status will make my argument stronger?

Also, is there a chance the officer at the border will let me in without reporting me for removal?

The worst part is, that I have to make my decision in 2 days. What would you suggest? Renouncing my PR for the study permit or giving my PR status a shot through one of these routes?

This is a tough decision. None of us can make it for you or guess the chances you will be reported by CBSA.

 

[jgatt]

This is a tough decision. None of us can make it for you or guess the chances you will be reported by CBSA.

Thanks for your inputs Scylla!

 

[armoured]

But do you think that the fact that IRCC has been issuing my family Tourist Visas, Study Permits and Work Permits since I was around 20 yo, without telling them that we still have our PR status will make my argument stronger?

Also, is there a chance the officer at the border will let me in without reporting me for removal?

In order -
-We'd only be guessing, I'd say stronger argument is that sister has now settled in Canada and lives there. (Keep in mind though she really did get lucky)
-There's a chance. No-one can say how much. Probably higher than through PRTD route, but no-one could say whether enough to make a difference.

I would really look into a bit how difficult it might be to work, support yourself, study, get health care and do all the things you want to do. And (if reported) still face the risk of refusal after what might be a long period of time in Canada. Even if not reported there's no guaratnee things will be easy. With again reminder, that your sister had unusual case of living in Canada without most of these issues because she entered as a student (her status was easy to understand even if there was a mistake underlying it).

And since you are considering a study permit - it's possible that study permit and pgwp / independent PR app may be preferable to you. That's not advice, just saying it should be considered. Both have monetary and other implications (like if you enter by land, you'll really need to not travel for two years plus) that depend on your circumstances.

 

[jgatt]

In order -
-We'd only be guessing, I'd say stronger argument is that sister has now settled in Canada and lives there. (Keep in mind though she really did get lucky)
-There's a chance. No-one can say how much. Probably higher than through PRTD route, but no-one could say whether enough to make a difference.

I would really look into a bit how difficult it might be to work, support yourself, study, get health care and do all the things you want to do. And (if reported) still face the risk of refusal after what might be a long period of time in Canada. Even if not reported there's no guaratnee things will be easy. With again reminder, that your sister had unusual case of living in Canada without most of these issues because she entered as a student (her status was easy to understand even if there was a mistake underlying it).

And since you are considering a study permit - it's possible that study permit and pgwp / independent PR app may be preferable to you. That's not advice, just saying it should be considered. Both have monetary and other implications (like if you enter by land, you'll really need to not travel for two years plus) that depend on your circumstances.

Thanks for your measured response Armoured. I appreciate it.

I am consulting a lawyer about some of the considerations you listed here to see how it may pan out with the documents I still have (SIN for example) and then take a call after weighing the pros and cons. At the moment, sticking to OG plan of just going there to study and then figuring out how it goes from there looks better.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks for your measured response Armoured. I appreciate it.

I am consulting a lawyer about some of the considerations you listed here to see how it may pan out with the documents I still have (SIN for example) and then take a call after weighing the pros and cons. At the moment, sticking to OG plan of just going there to study and then figuring out how it goes from there looks better.

Your SIN# would have been put on hold so you need to deactivate it. Based on other people’s experiences it seems as though you may need proof of a valid PR card to deactivate the SIN#. You could take the government to court because as a PR you are entitled to a working SIN#. To get a health card you often need to show a valid PR card so if you have any health issues that could be a big factor. It could take 3 years to be able to get a health card. You’ll need to take out a private medical insurance to cover any emergencies.

 

[armoured]

Your SIN# would have been put on hold so you need to deactivate it. Based on other people’s experiences it seems as though you may need proof of a valid PR card to deactivate the SIN#. You could take the government to court because as a PR you are entitled to a working SIN#.

Assuming you mean reactivate, I overall agree but two points:
-if someone wants to take the govt to court (and if so, I would be interested in being in touch*), you need to speak to a lawyer first - because (as I understand, and not a lawyer) you need standing, which almost certainly means something like a refusal first (something to show that you have been deprived of the right to a working SIN). I mean this only to say that it needs to be someone thought through.

-There are not enough cases here to say what happens if someone uses their dormant (inactive/on hold) SIN to work; you've said government will contact employer, and then what? Again, needs an action of refusal (deprival of a basic right) to challenge. It may turn out that eg showing employer info and/or contacting govt to say "I am me and this is my SIN and there is no basis to not use the SIN" could be enough. We don't know.

At any rate - if the individual HAS a SIN#, it seems more promising than not having one at all (which some have encountered).

*I'm interested because this is a real issue that needs to be fixed. No ulterior motive.

 

[canuck78]

Assuming you mean reactivate, I overall agree but two points:
-if someone wants to take the govt to court (and if so, I would be interested in being in touch*), you need to speak to a lawyer first - because (as I understand, and not a lawyer) you need standing, which almost certainly means something like a refusal first (something to show that you have been deprived of the right to a working SIN). I mean this only to say that it needs to be someone thought through.

-There are not enough cases here to say what happens if someone uses their dormant (inactive/on hold) SIN to work; you've said government will contact employer, and then what? Again, needs an action of refusal (deprival of a basic right) to challenge. It may turn out that eg showing employer info and/or contacting govt to say "I am me and this is my SIN and there is no basis to not use the SIN" could be enough. We don't know.

At any rate - if the individual HAS a SIN#, it seems more promising than not having one at all (which some have encountered).

*I'm interested because this is a real issue that needs to be fixed. No ulterior motive.

If an employer submits info for an employee with a dormant SIN# they will get a message saying that the employee needs to contact service Canada. Assume the employer will want proof that issue has been cleared.

 

[DimT44]

Assuming you mean reactivate, I overall agree but two points:
-if someone wants to take the govt to court (and if so, I would be interested in being in touch*), you need to speak to a lawyer first - because (as I understand, and not a lawyer) you need standing, which almost certainly means something like a refusal first (something to show that you have been deprived of the right to a working SIN). I mean this only to say that it needs to be someone thought through.

-There are not enough cases here to say what happens if someone uses their dormant (inactive/on hold) SIN to work; you've said government will contact employer, and then what? Again, needs an action of refusal (deprival of a basic right) to challenge. It may turn out that eg showing employer info and/or contacting govt to say "I am me and this is my SIN and there is no basis to not use the SIN" could be enough. We don't know.

At any rate - if the individual HAS a SIN#, it seems more promising than not having one at all (which some have encountered).

*I'm interested because this is a real issue that needs to be fixed. No ulterior motive.

If an employer submits info for an employee with a dormant SIN# they will get a message saying that the employee needs to contact service Canada. Assume the employer will want proof that issue has been cleared.

I know of a case where a PR was away for 10 years and after returning they were able to use the same old SIN immediately without having to see Service Canada. In fact they saw them and was told that nothing needs to be done.

They had to use the SIN number in person though, not on online applications. This is because they had no credit history and such.

Note: Not sure how relevant this is but it hadn't been 5 years since they turned 18 when all of this happened and this was 3 years ago (rules could be different now).

 

[jakklondon]

Back in 2005, my parents' application for a Canadian PR was approved. My sister and I also became PR holders as minor dependents at the same time. I was 11-12 years old at the time. We travelled to Canada the same year and received our PR Cards and Social Security Cards. However, due to the failing health of my grandfather, we had to return to India soon after. While my parents came back once later, they had to return back again due to family issues.

We didn't go back to meet our residency obligations and assumed that our PR Status was lost.

Later, around 2015-16, my sister applied for a study permit to study in Canada and the application was approved. Both my parents also applied for a tourist visa to accompany her on her journey to Canada. My mother was granted a TRV, while my father was asked to renounce his existing PR status for the first time to be able to secure a TRV and he did the needful. In summary, both my sister and mother were granted TRVs without any notification about still having a PR status. Since only my father was asked to renounce his, we assumed that our PR status was not valid anymore and we can only apply for TRVs to visit Canada.

In November 2021 (28 yo now), I applied for a study permit after securing admission in an Ontario University. After a long wait, on Feb 17, I received a letter from IRCC stating that I may still have PR status in Canada and that I must either apply for a PRTD or renounce it to continue my study permit application. This is the first time I had heard anything about having PR Status in Canada. I had assumed that it wasn't valid anymore, since my family members (co-applicants back in 2005), were granted TRVs by IRCC.

Around the same time, my sister also applied for a multi-entry visa while on her PGWP, so she could visit India and re-enter Canada afterwards. For the first time, IRCC informed her that she had PR status this whole time and that she should apply to renew her PR Card, since she completed her residency obligations while studying. IRCC had made a mistake in granting her TRVs before this. She has applied for a PR Card since then and should get it soon.

In summary, I had originally applied to study in Canada, assuming that I no longer had PR status there based on my family being issued TRVs all this time. However, if possible, I would like to reinstate my PR status and withdraw my study permit application.

One lawyer has recommended that I enter via US land border and try to convince the office on H&C grounds. Another said to apply for PRTD on H&C grounds. Another said to just go for the study permit. Getting divergent advice.

What are my chances of restoring my PR Status, considering I was a minor when I lost it and that IRCC led my family to believe that we didn't have it anymore? This is literally the first possible chance that I see of going back to Canada since I became an adult, since I had no clue I had PR status still. But could I convince an officer of this?

I feel your father. Smart man. He didn't want to be a rickshaw in Toronto and made a wise move, returned to India, where he could maintain decent quality of life and raise you with your sister.

Now, to the point. You are still PR. But you are in breach of RO. If you want to keep your PR, you can try: get yourself to Canadian border, ask admission as PR (you are entitled to be admitted as PR) and make the best case you can for H&C if they question you about your residence.
No one can say if they will report you or just let you in. If they report, appeal it. While waiting for IAD to hear your case you may continue your studies, Eventually, if you loose appeal, you will just have to self-deport or apply for a new visa.

I would not apply for PRTD. You can do anything you want and I am not a lawyer to give advise. I just say if I were you I wouldn't apply for PRTD unless you wanted your PR status stripped. Btw, there is no such a thing as "they made us believe we are not PR anymore". As a matter of fact, IRCC is one who made you aware that you are PR. If you didn't know if, too bad, that won't be grounds for H&C considerations. Talk to a good immigration lawyer , truthfully tell every single detail (be honest with your attorney, he is the only person who can help if you tell it as is) and see if totality of your circumstances warrant H&C consideration.

 

[canuck78]

I know of a case where a PR was away for 10 years and after returning they were able to use the same old SIN immediately without having to see Service Canada. In fact they saw them and was told that nothing needs to be done.

They had to use the SIN number in person though, not on online applications. This is because they had no credit history and such.

Note: Not sure how relevant this is but it hadn't been 5 years since they turned 18 when all of this happened and this was 3 years ago (rules could be different now).

Policies regarding SIN# have changed due to fraud.