Is my Grandfather actually a Canadian Citizen

[casper32]

My Grandfather was born in Ontario 1930 and lived there for 5 years until his mother died and he and his siblings were taken to Northern Ireland in 1935 by his father, Not sure on the date but he joined the Royal air Force and served in the British armed forces again not sure how long, he then left the forces after meeting my Grandmother and marrying her and settling down having 5 children in England, one of which is my mother, My grandfather never did anything to keep his citizenship just like he did not denounce it either, when he died in 2008 he was a British citizen as his last passport was a British one.

If you need any further details im happy to provide them but can someone answer me this::: Is my Grandfather still classed as a Canadian citizen.
Thank you

 

[Canadiandesi2006]

My Grandfather was born in Ontario 1930 and lived there for 5 years until his mother died and he and his siblings were taken to Northern Ireland in 1935 by his father, Not sure on the date but he joined the Royal air Force and served in the British armed forces again not sure how long, he then left the forces after meeting my Grandmother and marrying her and settling down having 5 children in England, one of which is my mother, My grandfather never did anything to keep his citizenship just like he did not denounce it either, when he died in 2008 he was a British citizen as his last passport was a British one.

If you need any further details im happy to provide them but can someone answer me this::: Is my Grandfather still classed as a Canadian citizen.
Thank you

I think you need to write to the appropriate officials in CIC and seek their official view on this matter.

Alternatively consult some immigration expert like Campbell Cohen, Immigration Attorney of this forum for professional advise.

http://www.canadavisa.com/contact-canadian-immigration-office.html

Honestly speaking, readers on forums may express their own opinions which may or may NOT be necessarily be in line with the CIC rules.

 

[alphazip]

My Grandfather was born in Ontario 1930 and lived there for 5 years until his mother died and he and his siblings were taken to Northern Ireland in 1935 by his father, Not sure on the date but he joined the Royal air Force and served in the British armed forces again not sure how long, he then left the forces after meeting my Grandmother and marrying her and settling down having 5 children in England, one of which is my mother, My grandfather never did anything to keep his citizenship just like he did not denounce it either, when he died in 2008 he was a British citizen as his last passport was a British one.

If you need any further details im happy to provide them but can someone answer me this::: Is my Grandfather still classed as a Canadian citizen.
Thank you

Before 1947, Canadians were simply British subjects, the same as everyone else in "the Empire." So, your grandfather could have easily moved to Northern Ireland in 1935 without a change in citizenship. He would have become a Canadian citizen in 1947, because he was born in Canada and had not become an "alien" (i.e. non-British). Your grandfather's children would have become Canadian citizens as of April 17, 2009.

 

[casper32]

After looking further into this i can see that my mother became a Canadian citizen when the 1977 act was passed which would mean she was a citizen when i was born in 1983, i understand that i had until my 28th birthday to apply for retention under section 8 but was officially classed as a Canadian citizen, which was repealed in 2009 but did not take away citizenship from anyone who had it prior to the amendment coming into force.

The assessment page on CIC website says that im probably not a citizen but that doesnt take into account the other information such as gain citizenship in the second generation as long as the is retended before their 28 birthday.

I was only 25 years old when the 2009 amendments came into force and as far as i can tell i was a citizen before this and the 2009 amendment states that anyone who is a citizen before the amendment comes into force is still a citizen and doesnt need to apply for retention.

 

[alphazip]

Assuming that your mother was born before 1977, she would not have become a Canadian citizen when the 1977 Citizenship Act took effect, because it was not applied retroactively. In other words, the children of Canadians who were born abroad before 1977 and did not have their births registered did not automatically become Canadian citizens. (Your mother falls into that category and so do I.) However, as a transitional (temporary) measure, the 1977 Act did allow such people to make a "delayed registration of birth abroad." I took advantage of this opportunity to become a citizen while it lasted (1977-2004), but I assume that your mother did not. (It was not well publicized.) Because of that, and because you are the 2nd generation born abroad, unfortunately you are not a Canadian citizen.

 

[casper32]

Thank you for the response, i'm still looking into this but it would appear your right, confusion on my part now is that the 1947 act states:

a Canadian citizen who, when outside of Canada and not under a disability, by any voluntary or formal act other than marriage, acquires the nationality or citizenship of a country other than Canada shall there upon cease to be a Canadian citizen.

My grandfather served i the British Royal air force which included being a British citizen.

I could do with a link to the 1977 act to check where things stand on this.

 

[casper32]

Although it does state that a birth has to be registered within two years of the birth the 1977 act states that you became a citizen if

the person was entitled, immediately before February 15, 1977, to become a citizen under paragraph 5(1)(b) of the former Act;
which includes the two years and the extra time given by the minister,
would it be fair to assume that on wording that there could be the chance to raise a question with this to an immigration official

 

[alphazip]

Thank you for the response, i'm still looking into this but it would appear your right, confusion on my part now is that the 1947 act states:

a Canadian citizen who, when outside of Canada and not under a disability, by any voluntary or formal act other than marriage, acquires the nationality or citizenship of a country other than Canada shall there upon cease to be a Canadian citizen.

My grandfather served i the British Royal air force which included being a British citizen.

I could do with a link to the 1977 act to check where things stand on this.

This goes back to my initial comment about everyone in the Empire being a British subject back in those days. So, your grandfather didn't have to do anything special to move to the UK or serve in the RAF. He didn't have to be naturalized as British, because he was British from birth. If, on the other hand, he had become, say, a U.S. citizen after 1947, he would have lost his Canadian citizenship.

 

[alphazip]

Although it does state that a birth has to be registered within two years of the birth the 1977 act states that you became a citizen if

the person was entitled, immediately before February 15, 1977, to become a citizen under paragraph 5(1)(b) of the former Act;
which includes the two years and the extra time given by the minister,
would it be fair to assume that on wording that there could be the chance to raise a question with this to an immigration official

No, because the "extra time given by the minister" expired on August 14, 2004. Your mother had until then to register her birth, which would have had the effect of making you a citizen also. Because she missed that deadline, she did not become a citizen until April 17, 2009, at which time those born abroad in the 2nd generation were barred from inheriting citizenship by descent.

More information here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/proof/registration.asp

 

[casper32]

Again thank you for your replies, these are helping. I do however have two more questions which as of yet the Canadian consulate has not replied to me about.

Did my Grandfather become a citizen in 1947 or was this restored to him retrospectively to 1947?
His mother and father lived in Canada for more than 9 years as a married couple and over 12 years and 31 years respectively.

if indeed he was a citizen in 1947 then wouldnt this paragraph from the 1977 act as it states "Persons who are citizens" clarify things somewhat

the person was born outside Canada before February 15, 1977 to a parent who was a citizen at the time of the birth and the person did not, before the coming into force of this paragraph, become a citizen

 

[alphazip]

Again thank you for your replies, these are helping. I do however have two more questions which as of yet the Canadian consulate has not replied to me about.

Did my Grandfather become a citizen in 1947 or was this restored to him retrospectively to 1947?
His mother and father lived in Canada for more than 9 years as a married couple and over 12 years and 31 years respectively.

if indeed he was a citizen in 1947 then wouldnt this paragraph from the 1977 act as it states "Persons who are citizens" clarify things somewhat

the person was born outside Canada before February 15, 1977 to a parent who was a citizen at the time of the birth and the person did not, before the coming into force of this paragraph, become a citizen

Your grandfather became a citizen in 1947, because he was 1) born in Canada, and 2) had not become an alien...with alien defined as a non-British subject.

I agree that the way the Act is worded would seem to include your mother's situation. However, I know, from personal experience if nothing else, that this isn't the case. I'm in the same situation as your mother, in that I was born to a Canadian father outside of Canada between 1947 & 1977. As with your mother, my birth was not registered within two years. As an adult (and this was after 1977), I discovered that I could register my birth and become a Canadian citizen, retroactive to my birth...and I did so. Now, if it were true that the 1977 Act (really, 1976) absolved me of the necessity of registering my birth, then why would the form for making a delayed registration of birth abroad have even been available? I was in communication with CIC at the time, and it was confirmed that I was not yet a citizen.

Here is a site that explains the situation as it existed immediately before the 2009 changes: http://www.americanlaw.com/cdncitabrd.html
It confirms the facts as I understand them:

"Requirement to Register Citizenship

Section 4(3) of the Current Act states that a person who was entitled to Canadian citizenship in accordance with Section 5(1)(b) of the Former Act remains so entitled, notwithstanding that his birth is registered, after February 14, 1977, in accordance with regulations made under the Former Act:

Within two years after the occurrence of his birth; or

Within such extended period as the Minister may authorize after February 15, 1977 or has authorized before that date.

The extended period remained in effect until August 14, 2004. As the extended period has now expired, a person who would have had a claim under Section 5(1)(b) of the Former Act is no longer permitted to seek Canadian citizenship."

Notwithstanding this last sentence, though, your mother did become a Canadian citizen on April 17, 2009.

Certainly you can apply for proof of citizenship for yourself, highlighting the relevant section of the 1977 Act, and see what happens. The cost is $75, so not a huge sum. If you do apply, I hope you will inform us of the result.

 

[casper32]

Thank you for your responses, they have been very helpful to me, i will indeed apply stating these sections of the 1977 act and will inform you of any correspondence that i recieve

 

[alphazip]

Thank you for your responses, they have been very helpful to me, i will indeed apply stating these sections of the 1977 act and will inform you of any correspondence that i recieve

You're welcome. I updated my reply, so take a look at that, too.
Good luck!