IS CIC SERIOUS ABOUT MEETING IMMIGRATION TARGETS FOR 2015???!!!...

[GARJ]

If we're playing the "what if" game, what if getting rid of the OWP and PGWP competition helps drive the wage up to the point that the jobs are able to attract better talent? This would be a great thing for Canada, and reduce the damage that the immigration has already caused.

Kateg, you are sounding a lot like Donald Trump with those remarks. Immigration hasn't done damage to Canada, it's made it the great country it is. No actual Canadian is complaining that their jobs are being taken away by people with open or post grad work permit. I'll remind you that you are an immigrant, LMIA or not you still came to this country from another.

 

[Amir62]

How Can I participate in Canada migration with IELTS 6.5 ?

 

[nuksyed]

How did it make things better? I see problems and issues with immigration now. effects of which will be felt in coming years.
Takes 100 days to get a pgwp, something similar for a visitor visa, family PR is 3 years now, they don't respond to queries or call much anymore. I do not understand how this is improved. Only Kateg seems to think so on this forum.

yes i agree with this. LMO are more difficult now and skill is more important now. But again it has nothing to do with immigration it is in part improvement in TFW program which was definitely needed

I agree with this too FSW program has improved but at an expense of LMIA exempt workers. LMIA exempt work permit holder fill a lot of non skilled jobs which r required if these people are forced to leave due to not getting ITA it will create more problems than improvements.
Why call us LMIA-Exempt if LMIA is such an advantage and apparently, a requirement (according to Kateg). I can speak for engineers. Since the start of my school here, I have been constantly told that there is a shortage of engineers in this country. This automatically means that LMIA-Exempt engineers are still required to migrate in.

yes i agree 8 years was a long time and FSW needed to be improved but they should keep FSW separate from CEC or LIMA exempt work permit holder immigration. they r addressing one problem and creating another. I will give u an example The job I took and qualify for was being done by someone who was a citizen here and was not skilled or trained to do the job. They had my position open 8 months. the guy who was handling what i do was making so many mistakes and I am still fixing them now. Company is not ready or rather is scared of the LMIA process so even though they needed someone they were using some one from US to fill the position temp(long distance thing) and the citizen guy. My company has already closed 2 felicities and moved to US because of various issues. Now think about it if i have to leave as I wouldnt get ITA company will lose again and at some point close the office where I work if issues persist. a few years ago i would have applied under CEC waited for whatever time and got PR. company happy me happy other citizens working in the company happy..but now its all unpredictable.
Adding all categories together and treated them the same takes away the point of having separate categories to begin with.. Why do I care that I am eligible for CEC or FSW if I do not have the points and it doesn't give me any advantage?

 

[mead]

let it go @ nuksyed someone on this forum once wrote "no one hates immigrants more than immigrants them selves".

 

[purplesnow]

Kateg, you are sounding a lot like Donald Trump with those remarks. Immigration hasn't done damage to Canada, it's made it the great country it is. No actual Canadian is complaining that their jobs are being taken away by people with open or post grad work permit. I'll remind you that you are an immigrant, LMIA or not you still came to this country from another.

plenty of Canadians are complaining actually. Look at these for starters; sure the focus here is supposed to be the TFW program, but have a read of the comments. Plenty Canadians angry at having any immigration program at all:
https://www.facebook.com/canadiansagainstmassimmigration?ref=ts&fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/743026985756908/?ref=br_rs
https://www.facebook.com/pages/End-the-TFW-Program/663058637112136?fref=photo&sk=photos
https://www.change.org/p/prime-minister-stephen-harper-minister-of-employment-and-social-development-pierre-poilievre-end-the-temporary-foreign-worker-program-and-the-international-mobility-program?just_created=true
https://www.facebook.com/canadiansagainsthetemporaryforeignworkerprogram?ref=br_rs
http://community.sumofus.org/petitions/end-the-tfw-program-and-unnecessary-work-permits

or have a read of the comments on newspaper articles. Or check out some of the tweets sent to the CIC twitter account.
Don't kid yourself Canadians are happy to have immigrants, skilled or not, coming in. Not everyone's angry but things like this is why immigration is going to be a huge issue in the upcoming election.

 

[kateg]

Kateg, you are sounding a lot like Donald Trump with those remarks. Immigration hasn't done damage to Canada, it's made it the great country it is. No actual Canadian is complaining that their jobs are being taken away by people with open or post grad work permit.

Read through the forums here. See how hard it is for the immigrants.

Furthermore, there are actual Canadians complaining that their jobs are being taken. First off, there's illegal immigration:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/10/06/15607461.html

The plummeting European economy is prompting hundreds of migrants to come to Canada where they work illegally and take away the jobs of Canadians, officials warn.

Customs agents at Pearson airport have refused entry to hundreds of suspected economic migrants from cash-strapped European countries who claim they are visitors but really want to work in Canada illegally, said front-line officers who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Next, there's the young:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/for-jobless-youth-canadas-search-for-skilled-immigrants-may-sting

But now, at 26 and with a university degree, Mr. Belokoskov has reluctantly acquired another characteristic of the Canadian youth profile: Unemployed.

On the job-search trail for more than three months, he admits: “I haven’t had a single interview yet.” The competition among young people to find employment —the skilled, well-paying variety — could soon get a lot tougher.

PGWP holders are competing for jobs with Canadians (a fact that many on the forum will admit to). They are recent graduates, and the job market right now in Canada for recent graduates is tough:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/recent-university-grads-increasingly-jobless-study-shows/article20357775/

New evidence shows recent graduates of Ontario universities are doing worse on almost all measures of employment compared to those who graduated before the recession.

Since 2006, unemployment for all university graduates has risen and their ability to find work related to their fields has dropped, shows this year’s annual graduate survey released by the Council of Ontario Universities.

If you think you can't find a single Canadian who gets upset at open work permits being handed out like candy to people competing with Canadians for work, you're not looking hard enough.

I'll remind you that you are an immigrant, LMIA or not you still came to this country from another.

So? I supported a strong economy there, and I support a strong economy here. I support Canada putting Canadians first, and unlike many people on the forum here, I'm not complaining about how hard it is.

In the United States, I was making over $150,000 US a year. Here, my job pays $85,000 for the same work. In other words, I took a 55% paycut to be here. Why? Because it's for an employer who can't find a Canadian to do the job in question. The price of my coming here is recognizing the role immigrants play, and trying to be the type of person Canada needs. The job falls to me to be good enough for Canada, not for Canada to be the type of country I want.

Canada is a good country - it's better than most of the other countries on the planet. Countries are a product of their people, and I don't want Canada losing it's own identity. I think it should target the best and the brightest, even if that's not me.

Too many immigrants think only of the benefits to themselves, not the cost to others.

 

[ASky89]

Well if an average citizen was well educated in economics and politics, we would all live in a better world.
Please do not take comments from the internet for much more than the regular rant. Due to the Government policies, the choice is always for Canadian when it comes to the hiring process at least in financial sector.
I don't really know whether the gap of underemployment is arising from skilled/non-skilled workers, neither average Joe does. Many take immigrants as visible minorities, which is not the case either. Many people are very distant from the topic, they just assume more competition is a bad thing, when indeed, there might be no competition at all.

When it comes to LMIA for a person who is already working for a company, the problem is not whether the person is a citizen or not, the problem is that they want to keep this particular person in place. Mind you, showing the tax infromation again is one of the biggest fears for an employer, so no matter how much they want to keep a person, they also want to keep their business running. They just also hope for the best.

It's great for kateg to get his LMIA, but seriously, you can't just apply your case to everyone else. Maybe you just got lucky and that Canadian person who has the same set of skills decided not to apply.

 

[ASky89]

So, it made things faster (good), and they can better adapt to Canadian needs (also good). Now, instead of just giving P/R to everyone with 67 points who applies, they limit it to only those who won't take jobs from Canadians, and those who are extremely qualified.

This improves Canadian immigration.


All of this is a good thing.

You are just trapped in a fallacy of generalization.

 

[kateg]

I don't really know whether the gap of underemployment is arising from skilled/non-skilled workers, neither average Joe does. Many take immigrants as visible minorities, which is not the case either. Many people are very distant from the topic, they just assume more competition is a bad thing, when indeed, there might be no competition at all.

I'm neither the average Joe, nor am I the type of person to treat immigrants as visible minorities. I'm certainly not one myself.

Competition is a bad thing in many cases. In the case of competing with Canadians for Canadian jobs, I'd argue it's almost always a bad thing. It's hard enough for Canadians without asking them to compete with people who aren't even Citizens.

When it comes to LMIA for a person who is already working for a company, the problem is not whether the person is a citizen or not, the problem is that they want to keep this particular person in place. Mind you, showing the tax infromation again is one of the biggest fears for an employer, so no matter how much they want to keep a person, they also want to keep their business running. They just also hope for the best.

I don't know what you mean by showing the tax information. If an employer wants to keep their immigrant, they should be able to demonstrate there are no qualified Canadians. If there are qualified Canadians, they should fire the foreigner and hire them instead.

It's great for kateg to get his LMIA, but seriously, you can't just apply your case to everyone else. Maybe you just got lucky and that Canadian person who has the same set of skills decided not to apply.

It's really frustrating when people deride success as luck. I got the LMIA because I found a need I could fill. I had to look for it, and it's taken years to build my skillset to the point it's at. I've literally been writing computer software since I was five years old.

One other country I've considered is Australia. They aren't looking for developers (with some provincial developers). If I had my heart set on Australia, I'd be retraining myself to have the skills they need. They don't owe me anything.

There are some people who simply don't have skills that Canada requires. They should either develop those skills, or if they can't (or won't), they shouldn't be permitted to come to Canada.

 

[kateg]

You are just trapped in a fallacy of generalization.

I'm a pragmatist who recognizes that when systems are relatively effective, they should be judged on their general application. All systems have flaws, but to judge systems by the edge cases is madness.

 

[kateg]

Maybe you just got lucky and that Canadian person who has the same set of skills decided not to apply.

I had a little bit of time to consider what you said, and why it annoyed me so.

Immigration is not luck. It's skills. The points system is geared towards certain attributes, so if you want the benefits, you need to pay the costs. Not the "hard work" cost, but what is actually asked.

I have an LMIA. I don't need one. My spouse got an ITA on March 27, and our application was out May 1st. We expect to have P/R in a couple months. I'm on summer break, so I could have worked full-time until then.

I have 11 different potential paths to P/R. I set out a goal, and I will do what it takes to succeed. Whether it's NAFTA, a Master's degree, or a LMIA, I'm willing to work as hard as is needed to meet my goals.

Luck had nothing to do with it - the only reason I worked at this employer was because they needed me. I wouldn't have taken a job from a Canadian. I was willing to relocate anywhere in Canada, and learn whatever skills were necessary in order to find a job where I wouldn't be stealing a job from a Canadian.

I have spent hundreds of hours reading through immigration caselaw, operational manuals and bulletins, ministerial instructions. I went to college to improve my score because while my work experience was good, my academic credentials were not good enough. There's a reason that many new P/Rs can't find a job, or end up taking survival jobs, but I found one in very short order. When I went looking for a job, I started with employers who had already been advertising for a long time. These were desperate employers, ones willing to do LMIAs if they can.

I'm aware my case isn't generalizable - if it were, immigration wouldn't bother me so much. Too many people think only of themselves, and not of the country they are moving to.

Luck is for people who don't plan far enough ahead.

 

[nuksyed]

I had a little bit of time to consider what you said, and why it annoyed me so.

Immigration is not luck. It's skills. The points system is geared towards certain attributes, so if you want the benefits, you need to pay the costs. Not the "hard work" cost, but what is actually asked.

I have an LMIA. I don't need one. My spouse got an ITA on March 27, and our application was out May 1st. We expect to have P/R in a couple months. I'm on summer break, so I could have worked full-time until then.

I have 11 different potential paths to P/R. I set out a goal, and I will do what it takes to succeed. Whether it's NAFTA, a Master's degree, or a LMIA, I'm willing to work as hard as is needed to meet my goals.

Luck had nothing to do with it - the only reason I worked at this employer was because they needed me. I wouldn't have taken a job from a Canadian. I was willing to relocate anywhere in Canada, and learn whatever skills were necessary in order to find a job where I wouldn't be stealing a job from a Canadian.

I have spent hundreds of hours reading through immigration caselaw, operational manuals and bulletins, ministerial instructions. I went to college to improve my score because while my work experience was good, my academic credentials were not good enough. There's a reason that many new P/Rs can't find a job, or end up taking survival jobs, but I found one in very short order. When I went looking for a job, I started with employers who had already been advertising for a long time. These were desperate employers, ones willing to do LMIAs if they can.

I'm aware my case isn't generalizable - if it were, immigration wouldn't bother me so much. Too many people think only of themselves, and not of the country they are moving to.

Luck is for people who don't plan far enough ahead.

Sure buddy, it was skill for a lot CEC applicants till last year. Now its just luck for them. You have been bashing PGWP holders non-stop. Noone is bashing LMIA applicants like yourself. Thing is, a lot of us had developed the skill-set to get the PR through the CEC requirements. And we now meet them, a few months after they decided to leave it all up to luck for them. Most people here seem to agree that you have a sort of biasedness towards LMIA since you have one.

 

[kateg]

Sure buddy, it was skill for a lot CEC applicants till last year. Now its just luck for them. You have been bashing PGWP holders non-stop. Noone is bashing LMIA applicants like yourself. Thing is, a lot of us had developed the skill-set to get the PR through the CEC requirements. And we now meet them, a few months after they decided to leave it all up to luck for them. Most people here seem to agree that you have a sort of biasedness towards LMIA since you have one.

It's interesting that you think you speak for most people.

I don't bash PGWP holders. I recognize, however, that the rules change. I was a student when they changed the study permit requirements last year. I was here for the EE change as well.

The old system (with CEC) was broken. EE makes it better. I thought that long before I got an ITA, or before I got a LMIA.

Some people were lucky before, and taking a two year "underwater basketweaving" diploma was enough to get them P/R. That shouldn't have been the case, nor should LMOs have been nearly as easy to get.

 

[nuksyed]

It's interesting that you think you speak for most people.

I don't bash PGWP holders. I recognize, however, that the rules change. I was a student when they changed the study permit requirements last year. I was here for the EE change as well.

The old system (with CEC) was broken. EE makes it better. I thought that long before I got an ITA, or before I got a LMIA.

Some people were lucky before, and taking a two year "underwater basketweaving" diploma was enough to get them P/R. That shouldn't have been the case, nor should LMOs have been nearly as easy to get.

Right, but a lot of PGWP holders do not have underwater basketweaving diplomas. You just happened to be lucky to get into a stream that gives out LMIA more often. I do not speak for everyone, but I will say I speak for a lot of PGWP holders. Explain to me, the point of having a stream called "CEC" when you aren't gonna select anyone qualified for CEC because their points will not be as high as an LMIA or a PNP holder. I have been reading your posts and it seems like maybe you need to take a step back and see others point of view as well. Sure, it may have been a broken system that got taken advantage of, but theres a lot of qualified individuals who had everything lined up for CEC that cannot apply anymore.

 

[purplesnow]

Express Entry was introduced to respond to Canadian citizens concerns regarding foreign workers. the people who vote to decide on policymakers were pissed that foreigners were 1) being brought in to work and then being treated badly by employers and 2) filling jobs many Canadians can do. So they brought in EE to soothe that, to show the people that from now on, the only foreigners that can come to Canada permanently are those that 1) Canada needs ( ie. LMIA holders) and 2) demonstrate through their education, experience and level of adaptability that they will succeed in Canada (high points)
Previously, anyone who qualified could get PR. Now you have to be one of the best. Does the system work for everyone? No. Are some people losing out because of it? Yes. But its better than before and no system is perfect. Besides which, moaning because Canada now has stricter criteria to get invited is insane. Their criteria is still far easier to achieve than many other countries. Canadian politicians are obligated to put their citizen's concerns and needs above any foreigners, so if you don't like it, tough basically.
This isn't your game and until the time comes that you have the right to vote in Canada, you don't get a say in who they decide they want. This is harsh I know but the sooner you accept that EE is here to stay the better.