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Is CBSA report enogh to prove residency requirement?

persian123

Member
May 8, 2013
18
1
Hi:

I became PR in August 2013 and would be eligible to apply for citizenship in August 2017. I have never travelled out of the country during the 4 years towards my citizenship requirement. However, I lost my passport and COPR. So I applied and got VOS for the replacement of COPR. I also applied for a new passport. However there is a gap of one year between the two passports since I realized I lost my passport after the expiry date. I just ordered CBSA report. It says as of June 2013 all entry and exit data together would be on CBSA report. So do you guys think I will face issues during interview or receive RQ since all my exit and entry data would be in CBSA report(which is none for the period I need to be citizenship). I appreciate if experienced guys advice me on this..Thanks.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
persian123 said:
Hi:

I became PR in August 2013 and would be eligible to apply for citizenship in August 2017. I have never travelled out of the country during the 4 years towards my citizenship requirement. However, I lost my passport and COPR. So I applied and got VOS for the replacement of COPR. I also applied for a new passport. However there is a gap of one year between the two passports since I realized I lost my passport after the expiry date. I just ordered CBSA report. It says as of June 2013 all entry and exit data together would be on CBSA report. So do you guys think I will face issues during interview or receive RQ since all my exit and entry data would be in CBSA report(which is none for the period I need to be citizenship). I appreciate if experienced guys advice me on this..Thanks.
It is difficult to predict which applicants for citizenship IRCC might challenge to actually prove their physical presence. Lost passports, however, tend to be something which will typically trigger further scrutiny including requests for more proof of meeting the presence requirement.

If IRCC requests more information and documentation for proof of meeting the presence requirement, no, the CBSA report will not be enough to prove the applicant met the physical presence requirement. At the least, the applicant would need to prove where he or she lived during all four years, and document employment or other activity during the four years. For the applicant who has indeed been living in Canada the entirety of those four years, providing such evidence to prove presence should not be very difficult.
 

Godzilla9

Hero Member
Sep 22, 2012
481
112
I don't think CBSA report will suffice because they also have access to the report. It is easier to provide proof of residency if you did some activity here: worked, studied, volunteered, etc. If none of these applies, use you can use receipts and other relevant documentation that proves that you visited dentist, gave birth to a child, did lab testing, etc. You can use all those as proof.
 

Chrome

Star Member
Oct 21, 2016
96
7
I think in your case the CBSA report is a strong evidence of your continuous presence in Canada. The CBSA report will show only one entry date. If you had made any trips during the four year period there would be more than one entry date in the CBSA report.
 

persian123

Member
May 8, 2013
18
1
Thanks guys. As of June 2013 both exit and entry data are on the CBSA report. Also on the report says all the data are extracted from all the passports that match my name and birthday. That is if I had more passports and travelled in and out would have shown on the report since they pull out the data based on my name and birthday which is unique in my case. Logically there would be no reason to issue RQ since CBSA report shows I only have one passport under my name and date of birth and lists all entry exit data under that passport/s.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
persian123 said:
Thanks guys. As of June 2013 both exit and entry data are on the CBSA report. Also on the report says all the data are extracted from all the passports that match my name and birthday. That is if I had more passports and travelled in and out would have shown on the report since they pull out the data based on my name and birthday which is unique in my case. Logically there would be no reason to issue RQ since CBSA report shows I only have one passport under my name and date of birth and lists all entry exit data under that passport/s.
Let's be clear, it is not necessarily the case that the CBSA travel history report will list all entry and exit data for an individual. And even if it does, IRCC does NOT rely on it for this purpose. Rather, IRCC mostly compares the CBSA travel history to the information provided by the PR, information and stamps in the PR's passport, and other sources of information, looking for possible discrepancies or omissions, that is, for the purpose of verifying the PR's declarations.

In terms of proof, all the record of a date of entry directly proves is that the individual was in Canada that day. That is it. No more than that. It does not prove the person was in Canada the next day, let alone a week or month later, even in the absence of any record of exiting Canada.

Yes, generally IRCC will infer that between a reported date of entry into Canada and the next reported exit date, the PR was IN Canada. But there are many, many potential reasons why IRCC might not make this inference.

And there is the fulcrum: for the application which is routinely processed, which typically means that IRCC has not identified any concern or reason to question the travel history the applicant reports in the presence calculator, IRCC accepts the presence calculator output and the presence calculator's calculation is based on the inference that the PR was in Canada from each reported date of entry until the next reported date of exit.

If the CBSA report is consistent with the applicant's presence calculator declarations, that supports reliance on the applicant's declarations.

But as thecoolguysam observes, there are many things which can trigger IRCC to question the applicant's declared travel history, which can result in the applicant being issued a CIT 0520 request for additional documents (oft times called RQ-lite) or CIT 0171 (the full blown RQ) request for extensive information and a lot more documentation.

One of those things which will typically trigger RQ is not being able to present for examination all passports which could have been used during the relevant time period for calculating presence in Canada. Fact that the CBSA travel history is consistent with the applicant's presence calculation is not likely to preclude RQ in this situation.

Sorry, as much as you or Chrome may believe otherwise, as much as you may insist the CBSA travel history adequately verifies travel dates, the failure to present all possibly used passports will, at the least, significantly elevate the risk being issued RQ.

How this will go for any particular applicant is difficult to predict, but again the odds are more likely there will be RQ when a passport is not produced for inspection at the documents check interview.

Moreover, again, there are many other potential reasons why IRCC might issue RQ. It could be something as slight as IRCC perceiving a difference in the handwriting in signatures on the application, presence calculation, and identification. It could be information an officer at IRCC found for an account in LinkedIn used by someone with the same or similar name. And if IRCC perceives a reason to question presence, the CBSA travel history will not stop IRCC from issuing RQ. It absolutely will not be sufficient proof of presence on its own.


What does being issued RQ mean?

The applicant who is issued RQ must provide an extensive amount of additional information and submit numerous documents which support that information. Part of the changes to the Citizenship Act implemented by Bill C-24 (back in 2014, although many of the changes were not implemented until 2015) make providing this information mandatory, meaning that the failure to provide the requested information and documents can itself be grounds to deny the application.

The key information and documentation required goes to establishing where the applicant lived and where the applicant worked. But other information, including information about family members, about the ownership of property outside Canada, the ownership of any business interests outside Canada, about community or other activities in Canada, must be submitted and can be important as well.

Gaps in documentation to show address or work, such as not submitting proof of paying rent (or otherwise documenting an occupier's interest in the address where the applicant reports living) for a period of time, can lead to IRCC concluding the applicant has failed to prove presence in Canada during that time. The CBSA travel history will not be anywhere near enough to overcome this. That is just how it is.

Any such gap in proof of an occupier's interest in a place to live which corresponds to a period of time for which a passport is not submitted for examination is likely to be particularly problematic. There are many variables involved, and how these things go varies considerably, and a lot depends on how IRCC perceives the applicant's credibility, so here too it is difficult to predict the ultimate outcome . . . but bottom-line, any gap in passport coverage can be a serious issue, any gap in documenting place of residence can be a significant issue, and in conjunction, if relative to the same period of time, the combination can be especially problematic. Strong and objective evidence of working at a Canadian place of business during that time would be the best evidence capable of overcoming such a gap.


Overall:

The main thing is whether or not IRCC perceives a reason to issue RQ, meaning whether or not IRCC perceives a reason to question the applicant's accounting of dates in versus outside Canada. For most applicants the CBSA travel history is consistent with the applicant's presence calculation, and IRCC does not perceive any reason to question the presence calculation. Application approved, citizenship granted.

If IRCC sees a reason to question the presence calculation, the burden is on the applicant to affirmatively prove ACTUAL PRESENCE in Canada. That requires more, a lot more, than a CBSA report consistent with the applicant's declarations. That is just how it is.


However . . . , for the PR who has actually been living in Canada, and who has kept what are essentially the normal and usual records a person ordinarily keeps, providing sufficient documents to prove actual presence in Canada, showing a paper trail of a life actually lived in Canada, should not be all that difficult. And, for an applicant who was working most of the time, it should actually be fairly easy to meet the burden of proving actual presence.
 

kirch

Full Member
Jan 26, 2010
27
8
persian123 said:
Hi:

I became PR in August 2013 and would be eligible to apply for citizenship in August 2017. I have never travelled out of the country during the 4 years towards my citizenship requirement. However, I lost my passport and COPR. So I applied and got VOS for the replacement of COPR. I also applied for a new passport. However there is a gap of one year between the two passports since I realized I lost my passport after the expiry date. I just ordered CBSA report. It says as of June 2013 all entry and exit data together would be on CBSA report. So do you guys think I will face issues during interview or receive RQ since all my exit and entry data would be in CBSA report(which is none for the period I need to be citizenship). I appreciate if experienced guys advice me on this..Thanks.
I don't think you are eligible to apply for citizenship in 2017..Cos as far as I know,you should be present in the country more than 181 days for every year in 4 years of last 6 years
You have stayed for less than 5 months in 2013
 

tim50

Hero Member
Feb 8, 2009
351
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dpenabill said:
Let's be clear, it is not necessarily the case that the CBSA travel history report will list all entry and exit data for an individual. And even if it does, IRCC does NOT rely on it for this purpose. Rather, IRCC mostly compares the CBSA travel history to the information provided by the PR, information and stamps in the PR's passport, and other sources of information, looking for possible discrepancies or omissions, that is, for the purpose of verifying the PR's declarations.

In terms of proof, all the record of a date of entry directly proves is that the individual was in Canada that day. That is it. No more than that. It does not prove the person was in Canada the next day, let alone a week or month later, even in the absence of any record of exiting Canada.

Yes, generally IRCC will infer that between a reported date of entry into Canada and the next reported exit date, the PR was IN Canada. But there are many, many potential reasons why IRCC might not make this inference.

And there is the fulcrum: for the application which is routinely processed, which typically means that IRCC has not identified any concern or reason to question the travel history the applicant reports in the presence calculator, IRCC accepts the presence calculator output and the presence calculator's calculation is based on the inference that the PR was in Canada from each reported date of entry until the next reported date of exit.

If the CBSA report is consistent with the applicant's presence calculator declarations, that supports reliance on the applicant's declarations.

But as thecoolguysam observes, there are many things which can trigger IRCC to question the applicant's declared travel history, which can result in the applicant being issued a CIT 0520 request for additional documents (oft times called RQ-lite) or CIT 0171 (the full blown RQ) request for extensive information and a lot more documentation.

One of those things which will typically trigger RQ is not being able to present for examination all passports which could have been used during the relevant time period for calculating presence in Canada. Fact that the CBSA travel history is consistent with the applicant's presence calculation is not likely to preclude RQ in this situation.

Sorry, as much as you or Chrome may believe otherwise, as much as you may insist the CBSA travel history adequately verifies travel dates, the failure to present all possibly used passports will, at the least, significantly elevate the risk being issued RQ.

How this will go for any particular applicant is difficult to predict, but again the odds are more likely there will be RQ when a passport is not produced for inspection at the documents check interview.

Moreover, again, there are many other potential reasons why IRCC might issue RQ. It could be something as slight as IRCC perceiving a difference in the handwriting in signatures on the application, presence calculation, and identification. It could be information an officer at IRCC found for an account in LinkedIn used by someone with the same or similar name. And if IRCC perceives a reason to question presence, the CBSA travel history will not stop IRCC from issuing RQ. It absolutely will not be sufficient proof of presence on its own.


What does being issued RQ mean?

The applicant who is issued RQ must provide an extensive amount of additional information and submit numerous documents which support that information. Part of the changes to the Citizenship Act implemented by Bill C-24 (back in 2014, although many of the changes were not implemented until 2015) make providing this information mandatory, meaning that the failure to provide the requested information and documents can itself be grounds to deny the application.

The key information and documentation required goes to establishing where the applicant lived and where the applicant worked. But other information, including information about family members, about the ownership of property outside Canada, the ownership of any business interests outside Canada, about community or other activities in Canada, must be submitted and can be important as well.

Gaps in documentation to show address or work, such as not submitting proof of paying rent (or otherwise documenting an occupier's interest in the address where the applicant reports living) for a period of time, can lead to IRCC concluding the applicant has failed to prove presence in Canada during that time. The CBSA travel history will not be anywhere near enough to overcome this. That is just how it is.

Any such gap in proof of an occupier's interest in a place to live which corresponds to a period of time for which a passport is not submitted for examination is likely to be particularly problematic. There are many variables involved, and how these things go varies considerably, and a lot depends on how IRCC perceives the applicant's credibility, so here too it is difficult to predict the ultimate outcome . . . but bottom-line, any gap in passport coverage can be a serious issue, any gap in documenting place of residence can be a significant issue, and in conjunction, if relative to the same period of time, the combination can be especially problematic. Strong and objective evidence of working at a Canadian place of business during that time would be the best evidence capable of overcoming such a gap.


Overall:

The main thing is whether or not IRCC perceives a reason to issue RQ, meaning whether or not IRCC perceives a reason to question the applicant's accounting of dates in versus outside Canada. For most applicants the CBSA travel history is consistent with the applicant's presence calculation, and IRCC does not perceive any reason to question the presence calculation. Application approved, citizenship granted.

If IRCC sees a reason to question the presence calculation, the burden is on the applicant to affirmatively prove ACTUAL PRESENCE in Canada. That requires more, a lot more, than a CBSA report consistent with the applicant's declarations. That is just how it is.


However . . . , for the PR who has actually been living in Canada, and who has kept what are essentially the normal and usual records a person ordinarily keeps, providing sufficient documents to prove actual presence in Canada, showing a paper trail of a life actually lived in Canada, should not be all that difficult. And, for an applicant who was working most of the time, it should actually be fairly easy to meet the burden of proving actual presence.
Great explanations !!!
 

persian123

Member
May 8, 2013
18
1
kirch said:
I don't think you are eligible to apply for citizenship in 2017..Cos as far as I know,you should be present in the country more than 181 days for every year in 4 years of last 6 years
You have stayed for less than 5 months in 2013
I want to apply in August 2017. So I have 4 years ( 2014-2015-2016-2017) that fullfill the requirements.
 

chikloo

Hero Member
Feb 6, 2014
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persian123 said:
Hi:

I became PR in August 2013 and would be eligible to apply for citizenship in August 2017. I have never travelled out of the country during the 4 years towards my citizenship requirement. However, I lost my passport and COPR. So I applied and got VOS for the replacement of COPR. I also applied for a new passport. However there is a gap of one year between the two passports since I realized I lost my passport after the expiry date. I just ordered CBSA report. It says as of June 2013 all entry and exit data together would be on CBSA report. So do you guys think I will face issues during interview or receive RQ since all my exit and entry data would be in CBSA report(which is none for the period I need to be citizenship). I appreciate if experienced guys advice me on this..Thanks.
By any chance do you have a copy all pages of your lost passport. If so keep it ready this will help even if they send you a RQ. Even though you did not take any trips outside there is a chance you may end up with RQ. So do not worry if you will get RQd or not. Prepare yourself with as much supporting document as possible and even if you get RQ you can explain your physical presence.
 

persian123

Member
May 8, 2013
18
1
so I became PR in August 2013,, so I assume I am eligble in August 2017? I mean does 2017 count?msince it is not a full year? Is Kirch's statement valid?
 

Rigly68

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Apr 16, 2013
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persian123 said:
so I became PR in August 2013,, so I assume I am eligble in August 2017? I mean does 2017 count?msince it is not a full year? Is Kirch's statement valid?
You will be eligible this year August if you have nor left the country for any reason. As per IRCC you fulfil this requirement: 183 days in each of four calendar years that are fully or partially in the six years immediately before the date of your application
You can use this calculator and it will tell you exactly when you are eligible:https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/resCalcStartNew.do
 

persian123

Member
May 8, 2013
18
1
chikloo said:
By any chance do you have a copy all pages of your lost passport. If so keep it ready this will help even if they send you a RQ. Even though you did not take any trips outside there is a chance you may end up with RQ. So do not worry if you will get RQd or not. Prepare yourself with as much supporting document as possible and even if you get RQ you can explain your physical presence.
I just have the bio page of the lost passport. Although I kept my leases and rent receipts, had car insuarance all the time and pretty much used my debit card on a daily basis and already got monthly history of my account for the required period so far. Also been full time either employed or studying for 3 years of that 4 years. Hope these are enough documentation...
 

chikloo

Hero Member
Feb 6, 2014
544
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persian123 said:
I just have the bio page of the lost passport. Although I kept my leases and rent receipts, had car insuarance all the time and pretty much used my debit card on a daily basis and already got monthly history of my account for the required period so far. Also been full time either employed or studying for 3 years of that 4 years. Hope these are enough documentation...
Good enough. Do not send all the documents with initial application. Just send the ones requested for. Keep it simple.