Is a college diploma really that bad?

[mead]

mostly people who say diplomas r better than degree r either consultants, students who r not in canada or students who want to hide their real situation in canada.

consultants cause they r making money from colleges
students who r not in canada are blinded by these consultants
students who want to hide their real situation i canada as they are embarrassed of their path.

trade skills pay good but do u really want to be an electrician after doing a bachelors degree in engineering from india?

 

[shlok shahani]

$60k fees ru talking about MBA fees?

what other options do international students have in finance and accounts sectors??

I've probably been involved in the hiring of 100 people in the Canadian banking industry over my career so far. I don't know what more to say except that employers like me want degrees. I have never hired someone with a diploma over someone with a degree - and doubt I ever will. I have hired a few international students for full time jobs before they were even PRs (while they were on their PGWP). Every single one of them was an MBA student in Canada. The reality is that advanced diplomas are quite easy to get in comparison to MBAs. This is one of the main reasons they don't have much value.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I'm trying to give you the honest perspective of many employers in my industry.

and if dis is what happens..then i think it is better to drop the plan..bcz universities r too expensive..not that i dont qualify for them academically..but finances r what hurt the hardest..

 

[mead]

what other options do international students have in finance and accounts sectors??
and if dis is what happens..then i think it is better to drop the plan..bcz universities r too expensive..not that i dont qualify for them academically..but finances r what hurt the hardest..

http://www.concordia.ca/jmsb/programs/graduate/msc/tuition-aid.html
this was just a quick search i am sure u could find more suitable masters programs

 

[sidhu_anwar]

mostly people who say diplomas r better than degree r either consultants, students who r not in canada or students who want to hide their real situation in canada.

consultants cause they r making money from colleges
students who r not in canada are blinded by these consultants
students who want to hide their real situation i canada as they are embarrassed of their path.

trade skills pay good but do u really want to be an electrician after doing a bachelors degree in engineering from india?

I'd have to disagree with you. I'm a fresh high school graduate and haven't been influenced by any consultant. and why'd I be embarrassed of studying business administration in Canada? Doesn't quite make sense. Here's the thing: the diploma program focuses on only the stuff we'll "actually" require. I know degrees are more informative but I'd be less interested in studying about who's the father of accountancy. The program provides courses like fraud examination, entrepreneurship and business simulation, accounting computer applications and stuff. These courses can never be found in an Indian college. Now if I can get all this at half the price of university degree then why'd I go for university? I don't want to become a general manager straight away after finishing my diploma.

 

[sidhu_anwar]

I've probably been involved in the hiring of 100 people in the Canadian banking industry over my career so far. I don't know what more to say except that employers like me want degrees. I have never hired someone with a diploma over someone with a degree - and doubt I ever will. I have hired a few international students for full time jobs before they were even PRs (while they were on their PGWP). Every single one of them was an MBA student in Canada. The reality is that advanced diplomas are quite easy to get in comparison to MBAs. This is one of the main reasons they don't have much value.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I'm trying to give you the honest perspective of many employers in my industry.

Nah it's not harsh, it's the truth. Recruiters themselves don't know for sure why they choose degree over diploma. But I guess it greatly depends on the job. If it's a high responsibility job then masters degree holders from a good university are preferred but it's quite baffling to hear that diploma holders aren't even given a chance. I mean who knows the diploma holder is a quick learner and maybe a better employee overall than a degree holder. But oh well that's your job. You know best.

 

[on-hold]

I'd have to disagree with you. I'm a fresh high school graduate and haven't been influenced by any consultant. and why'd I be embarrassed of studying business administration in Canada? Doesn't quite make sense. Here's the thing: the diploma program focuses on only the stuff we'll "actually" require. I know degrees are more informative but I'd be less interested in studying about who's the father of accountancy. The program provides courses like fraud examination, entrepreneurship and business simulation, accounting computer applications and stuff. These courses can never be found in an Indian college. Now if I can get all this at half the price of university degree then why'd I go for university? I don't want to become a general manager straight away after finishing my diploma.

You're drastically over-estimating your own knowledge here. As a fresh high school graduate, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you 'actually require' in the field of business. No insult intended, but that's what it means to be 18. I had friends as well, when we graduated from high school they decided that they weren't going to listen to any advice, and that they could make their own way in the world and that they could learn anything they wanted to themselves. And they did, now one of them works in a bike repair shop, the other is semi-homeless.

Also, if you're planning on applying your education in India, an Indian education is probably best. If you're planning on using it in Canada, then I'd take the advice of people like Scylla.

 

[mead]

I'd have to disagree with you. I'm a fresh high school graduate and haven't been influenced by any consultant. and why'd I be embarrassed of studying business administration in Canada? Doesn't quite make sense. Here's the thing: the diploma program focuses on only the stuff we'll "actually" require. I know degrees are more informative but I'd be less interested in studying about who's the father of accountancy. The program provides courses like fraud examination, entrepreneurship and business simulation, accounting computer applications and stuff. These courses can never be found in an Indian college. Now if I can get all this at half the price of university degree then why'd I go for university? I don't want to become a general manager straight away after finishing my diploma.

"diploma program focuses on only the stuff we'll "actually" require."
actually that is the problem.....u gain limited knowledge college passout students do not have the ability or r not trained to look at the whole picture. its like this thing works but i dont know why it works. when u go up the ladder u need to make decisions as a whole and must have the training and ability to see the complete picture. u need to learn tools and be able to apply them in various situations. another example
a college graduate learns how to use a software where as degree holder would know how to design and use the software.
if u ask me in engineering field only people who go for diploma r people who right after school started working as workers/technicians etc and now after 5-10 years want to become lead technician but dont have the qualifications.

 

[Josh21]

I've probably been involved in the hiring of 100 people in the Canadian banking industry over my career so far. I don't know what more to say except that employers like me want degrees. I have never hired someone with a diploma over someone with a degree - and doubt I ever will. I have hired a few international students for full time jobs before they were even PRs (while they were on their PGWP). Every single one of them was an MBA student in Canada. The reality is that advanced diplomas are quite easy to get in comparison to MBAs. This is one of the main reasons they don't have much value.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I'm trying to give you the honest perspective of many employers in my industry.

Curious but what makes an MBA so special that you would only consider hiring them? The vast majority of MBA's in reality dont really teach you anything special. It's more of a relearn a few business courses from undergrad type of degree.

I'd dare say that undergrads specializing in highly quantitative majors like math/stats with minors in econ/finance would be more qualified.

 

[mead]

You're drastically over-estimating your own knowledge here. As a fresh high school graduate, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you 'actually require' in the field of business. No insult intended, but that's what it means to be 18. I had friends as well, when we graduated from high school they decided that they weren't going to listen to any advice, and that they could make their own way in the world and that they could learn anything they wanted to themselves. And they did, now one of them works in a bike repair shop, the other is semi-homeless.

Also, if you're planning on applying your education in India, an Indian education is probably best. If you're planning on using it in Canada, then I'd take the advice of people like Scylla.

very well said....scylla is one of the best and senior senior members here.

 

[sidhu_anwar]

You're drastically over-estimating your own knowledge here. As a fresh high school graduate, you haven't the foggiest idea of what you 'actually require' in the field of business. No insult intended, but that's what it means to be 18. I had friends as well, when we graduated from high school they decided that they weren't going to listen to any advice, and that they could make their own way in the world and that they could learn anything they wanted to themselves. And they did, now one of them works in a bike repair shop, the other is semi-homeless.

Also, if you're planning on applying your education in India, an Indian education is probably best. If you're planning on using it in Canada, then I'd take the advice of people like Scylla.

I'm not at all bluffing. the reply was specifically for mead ( thats why i quoted him ) I just happened to disagree with his thoughts. I was none of the 3 types of people he mentioned are the ones who want to go/ interested in a college.

 

[napnusion]

Well I think the argument is quite heating up.

I would simply say that Anwar , do whatever you want to , go to the college and get a diploma. But please do not remain in a bubble. Whatever the senior members said in the forum so far , is actually the truth. It might have hurt you because I think you were expecting something else.

Do not compare university degrees to college diplomas.

See ,I think, if you invest so much in a degree , you are bound to get a return on it! Otherwise , who would ever think of going to a university , everyone would straight-away go to the college.

The subjects you mentioned in Diploma in the course might appeal you. But take care, employers look for something else.

The choice is upto you! Whether you would like to go to University or College. Whatever you decision will be , the attitude of employers in the job market will not change from the present!

No insult intended , You might keep on rejecting the thoughts of others who are present in the Canadian job market but nothing will change!

 

[scylla]

Nah it's not harsh, it's the truth. Recruiters themselves don't know for sure why they choose degree over diploma. But I guess it greatly depends on the job. If it's a high responsibility job then masters degree holders from a good university are preferred but it's quite baffling to hear that diploma holders aren't even given a chance. I mean who knows the diploma holder is a quick learner and maybe a better employee overall than a degree holder. But oh well that's your job. You know best.

I agree that it depends on the job. Just to be clear, the MBAs I hire aren't for what I would say are high responsibility jobs. They are for jobs like business analysts. These roles certainly have responsibilities - but they aren't management roles by any stretch of the imagination. The last international student I hired for one of these roles had a bachelor degree from India, three years of experience at IBM, and a Masters from U of T.

Here's the thing - business diploma (both regular and advanced) are quite a bit easier than bachelors or masters business degrees. And everyone know this. I hold a bachelors and a masters - and have also taken advanced diploma college courses (to increase my understanding of certain programming languages). It's easier to pass college business diplomas, it's easier to get into the programs, the classes are less demanding, and they don't test your capabilities to the same extent as a degree. When an employer sees that someone has complete one or several degrees, this demonstrates that they have the work ethic, intelligence, capabilities, etc. to get through a hard and stressful program. These are capabilities I look for in an employee as well because my workplace is stressful and demanding. When you see a Canadian opt for a business diploma over a business degree, this generally means they don't have high enough marks or strong enough capabilities to be accepted by a university and complete a university program. Again, just being completely honest about how people view diplomas here.

I'm not saying a business diploma holder won't be hired. But degree holders generally get better jobs at better companies with better pay.

But again, it definitely depends on the job. If you are going to be an animator or technical illustrator or chef - then college is the only choice for you.

 

[mead]

Curious but what makes an MBA so special that you would only consider hiring them? The vast majority of MBA's in reality dont really teach you anything special. It's more of a relearn a few business courses from undergrad type of degree.

I'd dare say that undergrads specializing in highly quantitative majors like math/stats with minors in econ/finance would be more qualified.

i will give u an example..ur from india
u know these institutes which teach computer languages or ITI's which teachs u how to operate a machine very practical right now a software engineer is not specifically taught software languages but he is groomed to understand how these languages work their basics and now he is able to apply that knowledge anywhere. similarly the machine operator knows how to make a part but doesnot know why the part was designed the way it was designed. so it is the aptitude to understand the basics thats more important. so mechanical engineer will never be a good machine operator as the ITI tech who is experienced machinist but ITI tech will always be limited to that machine he operates and will rarely design a part. ofcourse there r exceptions.

 

[sidhu_anwar]

I agree that it depends on the job. Just to be clear, the MBAs I hire aren't for what I would say are high responsibility jobs. They are for jobs like business analysts. These roles certainly have responsibilities - but they aren't management roles by any stretch of the imagination. The last international student I hired for one of these roles had a bachelor degree from India, three years of experience at IBM, and a Masters from U of T.

Here's the thing - business diploma (both regular and advanced) are quite a bit easier than bachelors or masters business degrees. And everyone know this. I hold a bachelors and a masters - and have also taken advanced diploma college courses (to increase my understanding of certain programming languages). It's easier to pass college business diplomas, it's easier to get into the programs, the classes are less demanding, and they don't test your capabilities to the same extent as a degree. When an employer sees that someone has complete one or several degrees, this demonstrates that they have the work ethic, intelligence, capabilities, etc. to get through a hard and stressful program. These are capabilities I look for in an employee as well because my workplace is stressful and demanding. When you see a Canadian opt for a business diploma over a business degree, this generally means they don't have high enough marks or strong enough capabilities to be accepted by a university and complete a university program. Again, just being completely honest about how people view diplomas here.

I'm not saying a business diploma holder won't be hired. But degree holders generally get better jobs at better companies with better pay.

But again, it definitely depends on the job. If you are going to be an animator or technical illustrator or chef - then college is the only choice for you.

Thanks for the reply. I wanted an answer like this. Thorough and honest. Yes I can understand that Canadians going to colleges are looked down upon just like here when Indians go to a college instead of a university. But that can be a misconception sometimes. so bottom line is that Yes degree holders will be preferred for more demanding jobs but that doesn't mean diplomas mean nothing (as said far too many times on here) . Thanks again!

 

[scylla]

Curious but what makes an MBA so special that you would only consider hiring them? The vast majority of MBA's in reality dont really teach you anything special. It's more of a relearn a few business courses from undergrad type of degree.

I'd dare say that undergrads specializing in highly quantitative majors like math/stats with minors in econ/finance would be more qualified.

Good MBAs can teach you a great deal. They can broaden your business knowledge (e.g. make you comfortable with HR and Marketing concepts when you experience has perhaps been limited to IT). MBAs can also significantly increase the effectiveness of your communication and your ability to influence others. They can make you a better, more fact-based decision maker. They can accelerate the development of your leadership capabilities - specifically change leadership. I've worked with many undergrads like you've described. They are typically extremely intelligent and have fantastic ideas - but struggle when it comes to effectively communicating their findings / decisions and getting senior leadership buy-in. In other words, I take them to meetings but have to do all of the talking for them - rather than letting them take the lead. Pairing an MBA with this kind of undergrad background turns someone into a professional who can not only come up with the great ideas - but get others to agree. That's the difference.

I'm obviously generalizing and each individual is unique.