Is a college diploma really that bad?

[sidhu_anwar]

So I've got the impression from many forum members that college diplomas are good for nothing. Many rubbish the very idea of going to a college for education. They give the reason that diplomas won't help you land a decent job. But does a university degree assure you the same? I guess not. I've just completed my higher secondary and got accepted into a business administration diploma with accounting speciality (with amazing courses like fraud examination and business simulation) and the college waived off maths requirements too because I got an A+ (95/100) in accountancy.
I prefer a college because of their small class size and individual attention from a teacher. A university teacher may have PhD but the sheer number of students in a university is a huge turn off. Moreover, generic degrees from a university which is generally 4 years long costs like $40-50 thousand adding living expenses to it and the number goes high up the sky. Whereas diplomas are half the price and length. Additionally, university degrees are too deep whereas a diploma from a decent college will impart more practical education which we require in job market.
So I would love to know why people run after universities (while knowing that neither university nor college will provide a guaranteed job) and assume only too-dumb-for-university kind of students get into a college. Are colleges really that bad?

P.S : I intend to provide little more insight into university vs college topic so that prospective students, including me, don't make a decision which they might regret in future.

 

[napnusion]

Hi there,
Well neither Colleges or Universities are bad. It just the teachers who are bad and you can find them either in a College or a University.

1) Diplomas are less worthy than a degree. With a diploma its hard to find a good job there. I received a seminar, in which the Canadian counselor pointed out that degrees are more worthy than a diploma. You can still get a job with a diploma but you need to have higher level of qualification to get a good job.

2) When it comes to Universities , the students definitely get better jobs than their college counterparts. Infact, they are able to pick-up higher positions just after completing their studies (provided they scored good in exams) Why? I don't really know. I think its perhaps its the employers who are biased towards University students.

3) Its really good that you got an exemption from maths requirement. I have my friend who scored A+ in all his subjects in the recent CBSE Exams , however he didn't get any waiver on Maths. He applied to Durham College in the same course and was expected to complete a 3 year diploma instead of 2 year (An extra one year is for those who didn't have Maths in Class 12 and its irrespective of the scores he did get in all of his subjects). That's astonishing but its true! In case you got a waiver , I would suggest to go ahead and make use of this opportunity.

4) I do agree, Colleges are way better than universities when it comes to teaching . You can fetch individual attention from teachers , as well as feel comfortable in the environment of college. Universities are too large and may prove to be difficult to adjust.

5) Universities are definitely more costlier than colleges. Its obvious that adding Tuition Fees + Living expenses , the figure would mount to such a higher figure , that it may lead to a financial constraint for the student.

6) I would disagree that Diplomas are better than Degree. Diploma is lower level of qualification than a Degree.
Saying that diploma is better , is like saying that Class 10 Student has better knowledge than Class 12 , which infact is false. A Degree does give you advanced knowledge than a diploma.

Diplomas should be preferred by those who either have received less scores in Class 12 examinations or can't get into Degree just because they didn't have a particular subject in Class 12. Otherwise , its futile to go for a Diploma.


In conclusion, neither colleges nor universities are bad. Both of them do not guarantee a job. Moreover , its not that college going students are too dumb to go to a university. For them , it must have been the problem of finance or their introvert attitude or any miscellaneous problem.

Its too subjective to say that Universities are better than Colleges or vice-versa.

Ultimately , its the choice of student , which type of institution he/she wishes to attend. Its better to weigh pros against cons.

 

[joshua96]

I got admitted for an advanced diploma at mohawk college. I feel colleges are better than universities as they have a well balanced coursework. Wht is the difference between a diploma and an advanced diploma?

 

[sidhu_anwar]

@ napnusion I agree with most of your points but I didn't say diploma is better than degree. I said a degree has numerous courses (too insightful ) a.k.a. filler courses in first year which a student may not really require in his / her job but because of small time frame of a diploma, the syllabus is more practical in approach. And i know maths in +2 for business is bit weird considering Indian +2 level maths is what Canadian institutions require for engineering courses. We should have business maths in India in our +1/+2 classes. Anyways, I'd like to quote a website:

It's exhausting trying to navigate the onslaught of
brochures and recruiters making their pitch at
high schools around the country this time of year.
While university is sometimes the obvious choice,
depending on your career path, college and trade
schools have lots to offer. They sometimes get
left out of the equation due to some common
misconceptions. Let us clear those up for you...
Myth #1: People only go to college because they
can't get into university
Truth: Most of my friends from university changed
their majors and degree programs more often
than their socks. While that may not be saying
much, the point is that many university students
have no idea what they want to do with
themselves and are paying thousands of dollars a
year to figure it out.
Colleges, on the other hand, are far more goal-
oriented. They tend to be full of people who mean
business, often times after having finished a
generic university degree program and realizing
that what they really want to do requires more
specific training. Therefore, I would suggest to
you that while people may go to university
because they can, they go to college because they
should.
Myth #2: I'll get a better job and make more
money if I go to university
Truth: Stats Canada's latest survey results show
that students from a college or trade school are
more likely to become employed following
graduation than those graduating with a
bachelor's degree from a university (Statistics
Canada, 2010).
Add to the mix the cost of living during the
average 4-year university degree program
compared to that of a college or trade school,
which usually offer program diplomas in half the
time. All this to say that, while salaries may be
generally higher for jobs requiring a university
degree, colleges have the potential to get you out
of school and into the workforce sooner and with
a higher percentage of employment than your
average university program. You do the math.
Myth #3: The quality of education at a university
is better than college
Truth: I took a course in university called
“Leadership and Group Dynamics”. For whatever
reason, our professor was from the Nursing
faculty despite the fact that it was a Recreation
Management class. We spent 4 weeks watching
the movie “Alive” and analyzing each character's
leadership style as the group tried to survive a
plane crash in the Andes Mountains. I came home
from class every week and wrote a letter of
complaint to the Dean.
I could also tell you about my first-year Sociology
class that had 350 students in it, over 40% of
whom failed the course. Or about my roommate
who did an exchange in France for a year and
was told, upon her return, that she didn't have
enough credits to graduate and would have to
spend another entire year at school in order to
qualify for her BA with a major in French.
Consider all the possibilities
Universities can be large, impersonal and
disorganized. While your prof may have a PhD, it
is often a grad student TA marking your work and
leading tutorials. Colleges, on the other hand,
tend to have much smaller class sizes and a wide
variety of instructors who have proven to be
experts in their particular field. The work is
specific and applicable. It's quality over quantity
in most cases.
Like I said, sometimes university is the obvious
choice. You can't become a cardiac surgeon or
district attorney at your local community college.
But if you truly are weighing the options and
trying to consider all possibilities before making
the big decision regarding post-secondary
education, it's important to know the facts and
be informed about the pros and cons of each type
of program at your disposal.
Besides, university and college misconceptions
make for pretty lame myths. Those should really
just be reserved for cool stuff like dragons and
sea monsters.

 

[sidhu_anwar]

I got admitted for an advanced diploma at mohawk college. I feel colleges are better than universities as they have a well balanced coursework. Wht is the difference between a diploma and an advanced diploma?

As far as I know, it's like this:
Certificate = 1-1.5 years
Diploma = 2 years
Advanced Dip = 3 years
Degree = 4 years

 

[scylla]

I got admitted for an advanced diploma at mohawk college. I feel colleges are better than universities as they have a well balanced coursework. Wht is the difference between a diploma and an advanced diploma?

It depends what you are taking and what kind of job you want. If you want to work in animation - then go to college. If you want to work in banking/finance - go to university. I was born in Canada and work in banking/finance. I do a lot of hiring and I ignore diplomas and advanced diplomas on resumes. They have no value for me. I look for degrees - ideally Masters. And I look for designations like CA (Chartered Accountant).

 

[sidhu_anwar]

It depends what you are taking and what kind of job you want. If you want to work in animation - then go to college. If you want to work in banking/finance - go to university. I was born in Canada and work in banking/finance. I do a lot of hiring and I ignore diplomas and advanced diplomas on resumes. They have no value for me. I look for degrees - ideally Masters. And I look for designations like CA (Chartered Accountant).

CAs will always have a upper hand so no arguing there. But how can you be so sure that the person with a degree from university is better than a diploma holder when you outright ignore diploma holders?

 

[joshua96]

Do engineering diploma holders have a good stance on the job market??

 

[mead]

Do engineering diploma holders have a good stance on the job market??

keep in mind when u do a diploma u dont work as an engineer but as a technician . example a design engineer will design a car ...but a technician will repair/actually build the car by hand. college diploma have limitations.

 

[shlok shahani]

So I've got the impression from many forum members that college diplomas are good for nothing. Many rubbish the very idea of going to a college for education. They give the reason that diplomas won't help you land a decent job. But does a university degree assure you the same? I guess not. I've just completed my higher secondary and got accepted into a business administration diploma with accounting speciality (with amazing courses like fraud examination and business simulation) and the college waived off maths requirements too because I got an A+ (95/100) in accountancy.
I prefer a college because of their small class size and individual attention from a teacher. A university teacher may have PhD but the sheer number of students in a university is a huge turn off. Moreover, generic degrees from a university which is generally 4 years long costs like $40-50 thousand adding living expenses to it and the number goes high up the sky. Whereas diplomas are half the price and length. Additionally, university degrees are too deep whereas a diploma from a decent college will impart more practical education which we require in job market.
So I would love to know why people run after universities (while knowing that neither university nor college will provide a guaranteed job) and assume only too-dumb-for-university kind of students get into a college. Are colleges really that bad?

P.S : I intend to provide little more insight into university vs college topic so that prospective students, including me, don't make a decision which they might regret in future.

what do people have to say about the huge fee structure that universities list out for international students??? $60k-$70k is the average...add to it living costs..if the investment is soo huge..u might as well consider turning an entrepreneur here in India..universities are definitely more recognised..but not everybody can afford them or qualify for them considering that they require 12+4(undergrads)+2-3 yrs work exp...

 

[mead]

what do people have to say about the huge fee structure that universities list out for international students??? $60k-$70k is the average...add to it living costs..if the investment is soo huge..u might as well consider turning an entrepreneur here in India..universities are definitely more recognised..but not everybody can afford them or qualify for them considering that they require 12+4(undergrads)+2-3 yrs work exp...

$60k fees ru talking about MBA fees?

 

[sidhu_anwar]

I know. UBC's diploma in Business ( accounting ) would cost international students like $45000 a year so that's $90000 for the diploma ( you can check for yourself ). If the diploma still doesnt guarantee job then that's just plain stupid to go to a university UNLESS you're rich or you've got a definite plan regarding your future. If you've applied to a university and still don't know what you'll do then you're making a fool out of yourself.

 

[on-hold]

what do people have to say about the huge fee structure that universities list out for international students??? $60k-$70k is the average...add to it living costs..if the investment is soo huge..u might as well consider turning an entrepreneur here in India..universities are definitely more recognised..but not everybody can afford them or qualify for them considering that they require 12+4(undergrads)+2-3 yrs work exp...

A diploma is for someone who fits one of three categories:

1) they aren't sure what they want to do, and want to explore a field at a basic level
2) they are sure what they want to do, and know that their interest is in one thing, and that their ambition is limited
3) they are studying a field, like animation, that functions on the 'basic training plus apprenticeship' model

So for any one person, it's impossible to say if a diploma or a degree is preferable -- it would be like arguing that steak is preferable to lasagna, it depends on the individual. However, in the aggregate, a true university degree is superior. Firstly, it requires you to learn more, and to explore areas that you haven't studied before. Secondly, it is designed to be built upon, having one degree lets you apply to begin the next level. Thirdly, it qualifies you for higher paying jobs (which is NOT the same as saying that every university degree will obtain a higher job than a college diploma). Fourthly, because of their breadth, a degree can be shifted to do other things -- physicists can work on Wall Street, philosophers can get MBAs. All of these are reasons that university degrees cost more than college diplomas -- people pay more for things that have more value.

I suspect that in India, for example, there is no question about what I've written above -- no one would choose to be a college-educated technician over being a university engineer. Your real question is not about whether a university degree or a college diploma are preferable, it is whether for a foreigner coming to Canada one or the other is better. In that context, the question also includes the international price, post-graduate work permits, and things like that.

Finally, and this is just my impression, but there has been a huge boom in college diplomas in the last 20 years. When I studied in Toronto in the 1990s, I never heard of anyone going to a college -- they were the same as community colleges in the States, for people taking a class or two and not certain what they wanted to do. I personally suspect that this proliferation in specialized one or two-year diplomas is driven by the urge to attract high-paying foreign students.

 

[on-hold]

I know. UBC's diploma in Business ( accounting ) would cost international students like $45000 a year so that's $90000 for the diploma ( you can check for yourself ). If the diploma still doesnt guarantee job then that's just plain stupid to go to a university UNLESS you're rich or you've got a definite plan regarding your future. If you've applied to a university and still don't know what you'll do then you're making a fool out of yourself.

This discussion of this or that 'guaranteeing' a job is red herring -- nothing does that, and no one expects it to.

 

[scylla]

CAs will always have a upper hand so no arguing there. But how can you be so sure that the person with a degree from university is better than a diploma holder when you outright ignore diploma holders?

I've probably been involved in the hiring of 100 people in the Canadian banking industry over my career so far. I don't know what more to say except that employers like me want degrees. I have never hired someone with a diploma over someone with a degree - and doubt I ever will. I have hired a few international students for full time jobs before they were even PRs (while they were on their PGWP). Every single one of them was an MBA student in Canada. The reality is that advanced diplomas are quite easy to get in comparison to MBAs. This is one of the main reasons they don't have much value.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I'm trying to give you the honest perspective of many employers in my industry.