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Intent to reside

Sharon3101

Newbie
May 3, 2017
3
0
Hello fox,

I have a small question that might have been asked before so I apologize if it was.
My situation is that I am PR for nearly 3 years and I will have all the days needed in mid-July.
The problem is that I have to go back home for about a year or so (for an unfortunate reason).
Is it possible to apply outside of Canada (as the intention to reside in Canada is waived)?
In case I can't, can I come to Canada for a week or 2 to apply and then again for the exam?

Thank you all
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
The intent to reside clause is still the law until Bill C-6 gets Royal Assent. Still, there is nothing in the current law that says you can't leave Canada while your application is pending for any proscribed period of time. You must have met the requirements (including the physical presence requirement) on the day you apply and you must have the intent at the time you apply and continuing up through your oath of "continuing to reside in Canada." This of course implies you already reside in Canada.

Nevertheless, it is possible to leave Canada for some extended period of time and still reside in Canada and intend to continue to reside there in the future, but that would be determined by the individual facts of the case. Obviously, the longer the absence the more it might indicate the required intent is lacking, but how long is too long? That is not written down anywhere. I would say leaving for a year is pushing it without strong indications that residential ties to Canada remain and there is a clear intention to return whenever whatever business you are attending to is over.
 

Sharon3101

Newbie
May 3, 2017
3
0
links18 said:
The intent to reside clause is still the law until Bill C-6 gets Royal Assent. Still, there is nothing in the current law that says you can't leave Canada while your application is pending for any proscribed period of time. You must have met the requirements (including the physical presence requirement) on the day you apply and you must have the intent at the time you apply and continuing up through your oath of "continuing to reside in Canada." This of course implies you already reside in Canada.

Nevertheless, it is possible to leave Canada for some extended period of time and still reside in Canada and intend to continue to reside there in the future, but that would be determined by the individual facts of the case. Obviously, the longer the absence the more it might indicate the required intent is lacking, but how long is too long? That is not written down anywhere. I would say leaving for a year is pushing it without strong indications that residential ties to Canada remain and there is a clear intention to return whenever whatever business you are attending to is over.
Thank you for your answer. Much appreciated.
 

CEC_1304

Champion Member
Mar 25, 2014
1,922
575
Category........
CEC
LANDED..........
02-May 2015
Sharon3101 said:
Hello fox,

I have a small question that might have been asked before so I apologize if it was.
My situation is that I am PR for nearly 3 years and I will have all the days needed in mid-July.
The problem is that I have to go back home for about a year or so (for an unfortunate reason).
Is it possible to apply outside of Canada (as the intention to reside in Canada is waived)?
In case I can't, can I come to Canada for a week or 2 to apply and then again for the exam?

Thank you all
Also don't forget that police verification for the visiting/Home country you need to provide if you are staying for more than 183 days continuously

Thanks
 

romanbel0

Full Member
Nov 13, 2016
28
11
links18 said:
You must have met the requirements (including the physical presence requirement) on the day you apply and you must have the intent at the time you apply and continuing up through your oath of "continuing to reside in Canada." This of course implies you already reside in Canada.
Does C-6 still require us to "continue to reside up through the oath", or was this introduced by C-24 and is now being repealed? I too plan to apply as soon as C-6 goes into effect and leave to study abroad for 1-2 years, I do plan to come back to Canada, but you never know and I will need to come back for a test and oath. Do you think I can do that under the new law? Or oath officer will be asking bad questions upon looking at my passport?
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
Does C-6 still require us to "continue to reside up through the oath", or was this introduced by C-24 and is now being repealed? I too plan to apply as soon as C-6 goes into effect and leave to study abroad for 1-2 years, I do plan to come back to Canada, but you never know and I will need to come back for a test and oath. Do you think I can do that under the new law? Or oath officer will be asking bad questions upon looking at my passport?
C-6 will do away with the intent to reside clause eventually, but until this provision "comes into force" it is still the law and IRCC is supposed to enforce it. But even if the intent to reside clause is repealed as a matter of law, IRCC could still use your residence abroad during the processing period as a factual reason to give extra attention to your physical presence declarations possibly delaying processing. They were well known for doing this before the intent to reside clause came into force. Moreover, you would still need to maintain your PR status up to the oath date.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
C-6 will do away with the intent to reside clause eventually, but until this provision "comes into force" it is still the law and IRCC is supposed to enforce it. But even if the intent to reside clause is repealed as a matter of law, IRCC could still use your residence abroad during the processing period as a factual reason to give extra attention to your physical presence declarations possibly delaying processing. They were well known for doing this before the intent to reside clause came into force. Moreover, you would still need to maintain your PR status up to the oath date.
That is a good, short way of stating this, that residence abroad while an application is pending (or an extended absence of such duration as to be in effect residing abroad) risks elevated and perhaps skeptical scrutiny, including potential non-routine processing. Regardless the intent to continue residing in Canada provision or its repeal.
 

foodie69

Champion Member
Dec 18, 2015
2,910
869
Hello fox,

I have a small question that might have been asked before so I apologize if it was.
My situation is that I am PR for nearly 3 years and I will have all the days needed in mid-July.
The problem is that I have to go back home for about a year or so (for an unfortunate reason).
Is it possible to apply outside of Canada (as the intention to reside in Canada is waived)?
In case I can't, can I come to Canada for a week or 2 to apply and then again for the exam?

Thank you all
How can you have enough days after nearly 3 years of PR?? The new requirements are not in place yet..You need 1460 days in a 6 year period.
 

romanbel0

Full Member
Nov 13, 2016
28
11
C-6 will do away with the intent to reside clause eventually, but until this provision "comes into force" it is still the law and IRCC is supposed to enforce it. But even if the intent to reside clause is repealed as a matter of law, IRCC could still use your residence abroad during the processing period as a factual reason to give extra attention to your physical presence declarations possibly delaying processing. They were well known for doing this before the intent to reside clause came into force. Moreover, you would still need to maintain your PR status up to the oath date.
Is it to maintain PR status up to the oath or maintain residence eligibility for citizenship up to the oath date? Do you know? Those are very different things.
And I understand that the absence is badly viewed by IRCC regardless of the law provision, but I do not care much as long as I am within lawful eligibility, they can scrutinize me as much as they want, I have nothing to hide. More important to me, that I can be legally absent all this time while they give me delay and still be eligible. Eventually they ll give me what I am due under the law, I hope. This is whats called the rule of the law at least. You also never know, they can equally give you hard time and delays even if you perfect applicant and never left or planed to leave Canada.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
Is it to maintain PR status up to the oath or maintain residence eligibility for citizenship up to the oath date? Do you know? Those are very different things.
And I understand that the absence is badly viewed by IRCC regardless of the law provision, but I do not care much as long as I am within lawful eligibility, they can scrutinize me as much as they want, I have nothing to hide. More important to me, that I can be legally absent all this time while they give me delay and still be eligible. Eventually they ll give me what I am due under the law, I hope. This is whats called the rule of the law at least. You also never know, they can equally give you hard time and delays even if you perfect applicant and never left or planed to leave Canada.

You have to meet the physical presence requirement (there is no residency requirement anymore) when you apply AND you must maintain PR status up to the oath.

You are correct that once the intent to reside clause is abolished they have to grant you citizenship if you meet the requirements even if you have since moved abroad. However, they can delay your application for a long time if they use your residence abroad as a pretense to question your PP declarations. In the bad days of the Harper government, processing times were so long that it was quite possible that such a delay put an applicant living abroad in a situation of potentially violating their PR status obligations before being granted citizenship.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
links18 said:
. . . they can delay your application for a long time if they use your residence abroad as a pretense to question your PP declarations.
To be clear, it is highly unlikely that IRCC citizenship officers employ any "pretense" in assessing an applicants actual physical presence.

Extended absences while the application is pending have been a reason to question the applicant's residency or presence for a long time, going back to before Harper became the PM. For example, a passport stamp indicating a return to Canada shortly before a scheduled test/interview was an explicit reason to question the applicant's residency pursuant to written policy at least as far back as a 2005 Operational Bulletin.

There are genuine investigatory reasons underlying this policy, not the least of which is that residing abroad evidences strong residential ties abroad, so in these situations CIC had (and IRCC will continue to have) an obligation to at least more thoroughly verify the applicant's claims about time in Canada.

IRCC personnel (with some errant exceptions, perhaps, which is to be expected) are not usually or generally engaged in a gotcha exercise, let alone employing pretenses to make the process more difficult for legitimate, qualified PRs. They have a job to do, which is to apply and enforce the rules and regulations, the law, governing the grant of Canadian citizenship. If there is any evidence or indication warranting a more thorough probing of an applicant, for the purpose of verifying the applicant's qualification, they have a mandate to do due diligence.

During the time Harper was PM, and especially when Jason Kenney and then Chris Alexander were, respectively, the Minister of CIC, very severe policies and practices were employed which imposed more scrutiny of all applicants, and RQ level scrutiny of a large enough percentage of applicants that the system nearly crashed, and overall appeared to approach a large percentage of applicants with an almost draconian degree of skepticism. CIC seemed obsessed, at the time, with thoroughly investigating any applicant for which there was any hint of fraud or even an effort to obtain what was described as a passport-of-convenience, and especially targeting any applicant perceived to have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

During that time, some applications may have been deliberately, so to say, shelved, in anticipation that the applicant (who had left Canada after applying) would eventually run afoul of the PR Residency Obligation, and thereby no longer be eligible for citizenship even though that individual did meet the qualifications when the application was made. We never had any direct evidence of this, but there was a significant amount of circumstantial evidence given the number of cases which literally saw no progress for years.

There is no hint in any reporting, none that I have seen, which suggests that IRCC is approaching applicants with anywhere near this degree of skepticism, with any agenda to stall processing for applicants perceived to be residing abroad.

But, given the change in requirements not too long prior to the Liberals forming the government, the number of overall applications made since CIC became IRCC is way, way down from historical averages, the base line amount of actual presence is much higher thus limiting applicants to those who have been more established in Canada for longer, and the intent-to-continue-residing in Canada provision still techncially applies, so the risk of residing abroad after applying has been much higher. This probably has dramatically reduced the number who apply and soon depart. All of which means there are undoubtedly way, way fewer applicants now who fit the profile of an applicant who might be perceived to have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

As noted before, regardless the intent-to-continue-residing in Canada provision, residing abroad while the citizenship application is pending is likely to elevate the risk of non-routine processing, perhaps including RQ, and depending on the actual facts and circumstances (not the least of which is how strong the applicant's case is otherwise), might invite a more severe degree of skepticism.

It should be noted, however, that even at the peak of the Harper-era targeting of applicants perceived to have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport, more than a few applicants who went abroad for more or less obvious temporary purposes, like to complete an advanced degree program, reported NO problem, and were typically processed timely, taking the oath within the then more common time line. Even then, the approach was not punitive (with some exceptions). It was intended to apply and enforce the rules and regulations, albeit perhaps driven by more or less paranoia, less reason, disregarding the detrimental impact on scores and scores of qualified, deserving PRs trying to take the citizenship step in establishing their lives as full Canadians.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
Additionally, the current law does in fact impose a residency requirement. The primary qualifying requirements are, indeed, actual physical presence (there are two APP requirements in the current law, one requiring a total of 1460 days within the preceding six years, and the other requiring 183 days presence in four of the relevant six calendar years).

But, to be clear, in order to meet the current intent-to-continue-residing-in-Canada requirement, the applicant must obviously be residing in Canada (not just present in Canada), and thus the applicant must have residency in Canada as of at least the day prior to applying and continue to maintain residency in Canada until the oath. The latter may not be an overt target of enforcement these days. Neither will be applicable if and when Bill C-6 is adopted. But for now there is indeed a residency requirement.
 

romanbel0

Full Member
Nov 13, 2016
28
11
Thanks for your insightful comment.
I still hold to my point thought that EVEN IF I stay here trying to avoid all risks being scrutinized, I am still likely to get RQ and had long delays because I was frequently traveling abroad (I spent all winters in South America, while my home country is in Europe). If so, I dont see point for me personally to try to be nice to IRCC at last moment and not leave Canada while application is pending. I am afraid they wont appreciate my friendly gesture. Of course, if your profile is otherwise no-risk-suspcious, you should not give them a single reason not to trust you, but this is not the case for me. So, my next winter will be in the south, after I apply in November (or earlier if new law is passed, which I kinda doubt) ,no matter what. I am not giving my life into hands of IRCC and praying that they are not mad at me, I live my life myself.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
To be clear, it is highly unlikely that IRCC citizenship officers employ any "pretense" in assessing an applicants actual physical presence.
Whether an applicant's residence abroad during the processing period (assuming the "intent to reside" provision is no longer operative) is a "pretense" to delay processing an application for someone an IRCC officer thinks is not really deserving of citizenship--despite meeting the legal requirements--because they are violating some cultural norm that associates citizenship with residency or it is regarded as a legitimate investigatory reason to look more deeply into a given applicant's declarations is probably unknowable in any given case. However, I would hardly say that is is "highly unlikely" that some IRCC employees have engaged and will continue to engage in such delaying tactics given the broader sentiment in society that naturalized citizens should live in the country. When processing times increase after C-6 comes into effect, there may be some temptation to engage in such tactics once again. After all, someone may fulfill the legal requirements on the day of application, but there is still one more legal requirement which cannot be met until the day of the oath (maintaining PR status until the day of the oath). An IRCC officer therefore, has the ability to potentially produce a negative outcome in a case where they know the applicant is living abroad and has abandoned Canadian residence by slowing things down. How often this happened in the past, I can't say, but as you admit there was strong suspicion during the height of the processing delays under Harper that it was happening in certain cases. But regardless of an officer's intent, when processing times start to reach the limits of the absence allowed for maintaining PR status, any delay can potentially sink an application for someone living abroad--even if they were fully qualified when they applied.
 
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links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
Additionally, the current law does in fact impose a residency requirement. The primary qualifying requirements are, indeed, actual physical presence (there are two APP requirements in the current law, one requiring a total of 1460 days within the preceding six years, and the other requiring 183 days presence in four of the relevant six calendar years).

But, to be clear, in order to meet the current intent-to-continue-residing-in-Canada requirement, the applicant must obviously be residing in Canada (not just present in Canada), and thus the applicant must have residency in Canada as of at least the day prior to applying and continue to maintain residency in Canada until the oath. The latter may not be an overt target of enforcement these days. Neither will be applicable if and when Bill C-6 is adopted. But for now there is indeed a residency requirement.
Yes, there is still a residency requirement until the intent to reside provision is officially gone, but it is a strange one: it only requires you to be "residing" in Canada on the day you submit your application and until the oath (or to be precise, it requires you to "intend to reside," which may or may not be the same thing as actually residing at a given moment in time). Of course, in all their wisdom--and in spite of them telling us they were strengthening the Citizenship Act by eliminating a vague "residence" requirement and replacing it with a physical presence one--they never defined residence for the purposes of the intent to reside clause leading to the kind of confusion you read in this thread. Is a person studying abroad residing in Canada or not? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what criteria you use, but there was none ever specified in the law. Therefore, until the intent to reside clause is gone, I would urge the OP to proceed with caution.
 
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