IMM5406E List any of your children who have been adopted by others--Seriously?

[Caroliner1978]

So, you had a baby 20 years ago when you were 16 and gave it up for adoption. List this unknown child who is not legally your child in any respect? Or risk being kicked out of the country if anyone ever finds out? This is friggin' ridiculous. And I wonder if it is even legal to require this information.

 

[CDNPR2014]

of course it's legal to ask this information. they are vetting you for immigration into their country and they want to know who you are associated in case they may want to immigrate to canada in the future.

if you gave a child up for adoption and they are specifically asking, then put the information down. it is doubtful it will affect any part of your application.

 

[Caroliner1978]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5289ETOC.asp#5406

SECTION B

Write the personal details for your children. It is very important that you list all of your children (even if they are already permanent residents or citizens of Canada). This includes:

married children,
adopted children,
children of your spouse(step-children) or common-law partner,
any of your children who have been adopted by others,
any of your children who are in the custody of an ex-spouse, former common-law partner or other guardian.

The child doesn't know who you are and you don't know who the child is. You are not on their birth certificate--that is what adoption does--their adoptive parents ARE their parents. You are NOT their parent. You have zero association with them, and if they ever want to immigrate to Canada, you would never know, they would have no idea who you are, and possibly no idea they are even adopted.

What would you even put?

Name: ??
Relationship: None
Date of birth and place of birth you would know
Marital status: ??
Present Address: ??
Email Address: ??

Plus, if you list them on this form, then they have to get medicals and all that stuff now?? Ridiculous and impossible.

 

[Caroliner1978]

And considering adoption records are sealed, and it is illegal for even the adopted child to access their own information about their adoption, I can't see how it is legal... It's been designed to be legally anonymous for both birth parent and adoptee, once the adoption is finalized. Like it never even happened and the child was physically born to the adoptive mother. That's how it works. So this info really shouldn't be required if it's been legally "erased" from existence.

 

[Lizzy1987]

And considering adoption records are sealed, and it is illegal for even the adopted child to access their own information about their adoption, I can't see how it is legal... It's been designed to be legally anonymous for both birth parent and adoptee, once the adoption is finalized. Like it never even happened and the child was physically born to the adoptive mother. That's how it works. So this info really shouldn't be required if it's been legally "erased" from existence.

As a person who was adopted, I agree- I find this question pretty offensive and inappropriate in that type of situation. However, they are most likely referring to open adoptions. I'm not a lawyer, but I would imagine there would be a way to write a letter to the effect of 'closed adoption-records are legally sealed by [government entity]'

It also might be worth a call to CIC

 

[CDNPR2014]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5289ETOC.asp#5406

SECTION B

Email Address: ??

Plus, if you list them on this form, then they have to get medicals and all that stuff now?? Ridiculous and impossible.

that's not nessarily true. if the child is adopted and it was a closed adoption, they are not going to ask you to provide a medical. they don't ask for things that are impossible, and if proven impossible, they waive requirements.

if you're not comfortable listing it, then don't list it. i highly doubt it would ever be found out. i didn't list my step family on my additional family information because my father had been deceased for 15+ years so i don't consider them relatives anymore. was it the "right" thing to do? i don't know, and maybe some will say i'm guilty of "misrepresentation". what i do know is that it has never come up and i highly doubt it ever will.

i'm also going to guess this question is not specific to situations such as yours. i think it's more about children who are adopted by family members to help with finances or immigration. there are people who try to circumvent systems through adoption. remember, these forms are generic and used for ALL immigration streams.

if you do choose to put it in, then yes, it would be fine to say "unknown" or "N/A" and provide an explanation about it being a closed adoption and records are sealed.

 

[Bcboundboy]

The child doesn't know who you are and you don't know who the child is. You are not on their birth certificate--that is what adoption does--their adoptive parents ARE their parents. You are NOT their parent. You have zero association with them, and if they ever want to immigrate to Canada, you would never know, they would have no idea who you are, and possibly no idea they are even adopted.

What would you even put?

Name: ??
Relationship: None
Date of birth and place of birth you would know
Marital status: ??
Present Address: ??
Email Address: ??

Plus, if you list them on this form, then they have to get medicals and all that stuff now?? Ridiculous and impossible.

Adoption may do what you say it does in some places, but certainly not in all. For example, in Britain, any child over 18 can request their original birth documents, unredacted. Adoption means they were raised by another set of parents, but that could have happened at any age, and they could know or not that it happened, depending on their age at the time, and what their new parents told them. It doesn't eliminate the biological parents from history. It's entirely reasonable for a new country you're trying to move to to request to understand the makeup of your entire family, not merely the parts you want to tell them about.

I'd put the information you have, and list the rest as unknown.

 

[Caroliner1978]

Whether the birth parent and/or child know about and/or know each other or not, to me, is not the point. I don't understand how they could require information about someone who is not your relative--in this case, this person you are listing is not your child, and is not related to you, legally. This is about additional family--and this person you are listing is not family. Having access to information from before you were adopted does not change the fact that the parents listed on a birth certificate are the legal parents, and everyone else in the world (including birth parents) are not. Just because you know your birth mother's name or have even met her doesn't make her your legal mother, suddenly.

In any case, I feel like this info requested is irrelevant, really. I'm pretty sure the reason they want to know about family members is that there is a chance those people could apply to immigrate to Canada in the future. I'd bet they like to know how many people they are really saying yes to, if they let you in. Because you might sponsor your family members in the future. And I totally get that. But guess what? Since you're not legally related in any way to this person they are asking you to list on this form, and thus they are not a family member of yours, there is no way you could ever sponsor them. Even if you meet sometime in the future, they will never be your legal family member. Not a brother, not a sister, not a parent or grandparent, and not a child of yours. Just legally, another random person in the world that you may or may not know personally. Sooo... Why do they need this information?

 

[Caroliner1978]

Aha....

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/FullText.html

Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations

SOR/2002-227

FINANCIAL ADMINISTRATION ACT
IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE PROTECTION ACT


dependent child, in respect of a parent, means a child who

(a) has one of the following relationships with the parent, namely,

(i) is the biological child of the parent, if the child has not been adopted by a person other than the spouse or common-law partner of the parent,


So, the child can be listed as a family member, but is not a dependent child, and therefore does not need to be included on the application (ie... no other info or medicals required).

Had to look deep, but I knew it.

Still... I think it's irrelevant, seeing as there is no way to prove someone is or is not the biological parent of someone who is adopted, since the records are sealed.