I cannot tell for sure if my daughters are citizens by birth (2nd gen)

[MWEISENBURG]

Hi! I am first generation born outside of Canada to a Canadian father. I was born in 1972. I have my proof of citizenship. My two daughters (2nd generation born outside of Canada) were both born prior to the 2009 law. They were born in 2000 and 2002. My oldest daughter now wants to stay with family and attend a high school in Quebec for her junior year (exchange student situation). The school is asking for her proof of citizenship. I have applied for the certificate of citizenship and am waiting for a response but none of the examples on their website seem to apply to this specific case.

My assumption is that both daughters would have been Canadian citizens by birth PRIOR to 2009, and would both retain their Canadian citizenship. Can anyone confirm they are citizens?

Thank you!

 

[insighty]

Can anyone confirm they are citizens?

Thank you!

Yeah! But as we understand you've already asked the govt who has the ability to do that

 

[MWEISENBURG]

Yes, I will wait the 5+ months for official confirmation. But if I'm wrong I'll have to start asking some other questions about how to get her into a Canadian high school if she's not Canadian. So, I thought I'd seek advice here while I wait. Thanks!!

 

[alphazip]

Hi! I am first generation born outside of Canada to a Canadian father. I was born in 1972. I have my proof of citizenship. My two daughters (2nd generation born outside of Canada) were both born prior to the 2009 law. They were born in 2000 and 2002. My oldest daughter now wants to stay with family and attend a high school in Quebec for her junior year (exchange student situation). The school is asking for her proof of citizenship. I have applied for the certificate of citizenship and am waiting for a response but none of the examples on their website seem to apply to this specific case.

My assumption is that both daughters would have been Canadian citizens by birth PRIOR to 2009, and would both retain their Canadian citizenship. Can anyone confirm they are citizens?

Thank you!

To determine whether your children are Canadian citizens, it is important to know whether you were a Canadian citizen when they were born:

1. Was your father a Canadian citizen when you were born, or had he become a citizen of another country?
2. If your father was a Canadian, was your birth registered with Canadian authorities?

If you did not become a citizen until April 17, 2009, then your children are not Canadian citizens (despite the fact that they were born before 2009), because of the limitation on citizenship to the first generation born abroad.

 

[MWEISENBURG]

To determine whether your children are Canadian citizens, it is important to know whether you were a Canadian citizen when they were born:

1. Was your father a Canadian citizen when you were born, or had he become a citizen of another country?
2. If your father was a Canadian, was your birth registered with Canadian authorities?

If you did not become a citizen until April 17, 2009, then your children are not Canadian citizens (despite the fact that they were born before 2009), because of the limitation on citizenship to the first generation born abroad.

1. My father has been a Canadian citizen since his birth, he became a citizen of the US when I was 6. Last year he applied for and received his Canadian Citizenship certificate and it says he's been a citizen since his birth.
2. My birth was not registered with Canada. However, my Canadian Citizenship certificate (issued last year) also says I have been a citizen since my birth.

Does this help clarify? Thank you.

 

[alphazip]

1. My father has been a Canadian citizen since his birth, he became a citizen of the US when I was 6. Last year he applied for and received his Canadian Citizenship certificate and it says he's been a citizen since his birth.
2. My birth was not registered with Canada. However, my Canadian Citizenship certificate (issued last year) also says I have been a citizen since my birth.

Does this help clarify? Thank you.

1. If your father became a U.S. citizen in 1978, then he did not lose his Canadian citizenship and was a Canadian citizen when you were born, and up to the present.

2. Before 1977, the birth of a child to a Canadian citizen outside of Canada had to be registered. If your father did not register your birth, you could have done so on your own up until 2004. (That's what I did. It was called a "delayed registration of birth abroad.") Since you apparently did not do so, you were not in possession of Canadian citizenship when your daughters were born. However, a law that took effect on April 17, 2009 gave citizenship to the foreign-born children of natural-born Canadians...citizenship that was retroactive to their date of birth. Of course, this would make you think that you would have passed citizenship on to your daughters. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You see, at the very moment you became a Canadian citizen in 2009 (see that moment here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDeDQpIQFD0), a rule took effect that limits Canadian citizenship to the 1st generation born abroad. That rule cancelled out the retroactivity that would otherwise have made your daughters Canadian. In other words, they would have had to already be Canadian at 11:59 p.m. on April 16, 2009 to be Canadian now.

Of course, you have no reason to accept what I've written here as the truth. You will have to wait for an official ruling from CIC, but you might want to look into other options re: your daughter's schooling.

Note: "Persons born to a Canadian parent who are not eligible for citizenship by descent due to the first generation limit may apply for and obtain permanent resident status and subsequently submit an application for a grant of citizenship under section 5 of the Citizenship Act."

 

[MWEISENBURG]

1. If your father became a U.S. citizen in 1978, then he did not lose his Canadian citizenship and was a Canadian citizen when you were born, and up to the present.

2. Before 1977, the birth of a child to a Canadian citizen outside of Canada had to be registered. If your father did not register your birth, you could have done so on your own up until 2004. (That's what I did. It was called a "delayed registration of birth abroad.") Since you apparently did not do so, you were not in possession of Canadian citizenship when your daughters were born. However, a law that took effect on April 17, 2009 gave citizenship to the foreign-born children of natural-born Canadians...citizenship that was retroactive to their date of birth. Of course, this would make you think that you would have passed citizenship on to your daughters. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You see, at the very moment you became a Canadian citizen in 2009 (see that moment here: a rule took effect that limits Canadian citizenship to the 1st generation born abroad. That rule cancelled out the retroactivity that would otherwise have made your daughters Canadian.

Now I'm even more confused:

As to point #1 - My father was born in December of 1947 (not 1978 - I don't know if that makes a difference). His effective date of citizenship is Dec 1947 (his birthday).

As to point #2 - (And this is where I get confused)... My birth was never registered with the government, at least not to my knowledge. Are you saying that because I was born in 1972 it should have been registered? My citizenship certificate says that my Effective date of citizenship is Jan 1972 (my birthday) it does not mention anything about becoming a citizen in 2009. But, if the effective date of my citizenship was Jan 1972 I don't understand how citizenship would not be given to my children born in 2000 and 2002, respectively? On the CIC website it says "There are a number of laws and rules that affect if your children are Canadian. They probably are because most children born to Canadian parents before April 17, 2009, were citizens at birth."

Sorry but this is just all sooo confusing. Thank you for your reply.

 

[alphazip]

Now I'm even more confused:

As to point #1 - My father was born in December of 1947 (not 1978 - I don't know if that makes a difference). His effective date of citizenship is Dec 1947 (his birthday).

As to point #2 - (And this is where I get confused)... My birth was never registered with the government, at least not to my knowledge. Are you saying that because I was born in 1972 it should have been registered? My citizenship certificate says that my Effective date of citizenship is Jan 1972 (my birthday) it does not mention anything about becoming a citizen in 2009. But, if the effective date of my citizenship was Jan 1972 I don't understand how citizenship would not be given to my children born in 2000 and 2002, respectively? On the CIC website it says "There are a number of laws and rules that affect if your children are Canadian. They probably are because most children born to Canadian parents before April 17, 2009, were citizens at birth."

Sorry but this is just all sooo confusing. Thank you for your reply.

1. I don't think I said your father was born in 1978. I said he became a U.S. citizen in 1978, because you had said it was when you were 6. If it was before February 14, 1977, he would have lost Canadian citizenship at that time, but regained it on April 17, 2009.

2. The fact that your certificate states that you were a citizen since the date of your birth does not mean that you were a citizen when your children were born. I know it sounds illogical, but, yes, your birth had to be registered and you were not a citizen in, say, 2000. Imagine that you had applied for a Canadian passport in 2000. Would you have been issued one? The answer is no. That's because your birth had not been registered and you didn't become a citizen until April 17, 2009.

There are a number of citizenship acts and amendments with numerous provisions, and I can't go into all of them here. However, I will say that between 1947 and 1977, the birth abroad of the child of a Canadian citizen had to be registered. Not only that, but the person had to confirm their citizenship upon reaching adulthood. From 1977 until 2004, it was possible for those persons whose births had not been registered as children to do so themselves. Then, due to pressure from "Lost Canadians" (people who would have been Canadian citizens but for antiquated, sometimes sexist, rules and regulations), a law was passed that became effective on April 17, 2009, that did several things. It returned citizenship to all those who had lost it by becoming, say, American citizens before 1977, and it gave citizenship for the first time to children born abroad in the first generation. However, it limited citizenship to that 1st generation. The law did not take citizenship away from anyone, so if your children had already been Canadian, they would be Canadian now. In 2015, there were even more changes, but they don't apply to your situation.

See: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules_2009.asp

Note this, which applies to your children:

"In 2009, you did not become a Canadian citizen if you: were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, were not already a Canadian citizen or you had lost your citizenship in the past, and you were born in the second or subsequent generation (this includes people who failed to retain citizenship)."

I don't know if I can make you understand all of this, but if you have more questions, feel free to ask. You may just have to wait for a reply from CIC.

 

[MWEISENBURG]

Sorry I wasn't clear, my father was born in Canada. He moved to the USA and became a US citizen around 1978. But, I don't think that changes anything you have outlined for me.

Thank you for taking all the time to try to explain this to me. It is all very confusing. But, I think I understand now. It is not the scenario I was hoping for. But, now I will just need to find out what else I can do. Some of my questions are a bit harder due to the fact that I'm talking about Quebec and so rules on what schools (English vs. French) my daughter can attend come into play. It just means it's going to take more time to sort through everything. I guess ultimately I just need to know what I will need to get my daughter into an English school in Quebec. Hopefully I can look around and find someone in the forum that can help.

Thanks again!!

 

[Sideoutslam@gmail]

Did this ever get sorted out I have the same situation

 

[screech339]

Sorry I wasn't clear, my father was born in Canada. He moved to the USA and became a US citizen around 1978. But, I don't think that changes anything you have outlined for me.

Thank you for taking all the time to try to explain this to me. It is all very confusing. But, I think I understand now. It is not the scenario I was hoping for. But, now I will just need to find out what else I can do. Some of my questions are a bit harder due to the fact that I'm talking about Quebec and so rules on what schools (English vs. French) my daughter can attend come into play. It just means it's going to take more time to sort through everything. I guess ultimately I just need to know what I will need to get my daughter into an English school in Quebec. Hopefully I can look around and find someone in the forum that can help.

Thanks again!!

Yes, your father was born in Canada but you were not. Your father was suppose to register your birth to Canadian authorities since you were born outside Canada. Since your father did not do this, you were not Canadian when your children were born in US. Since 2009 law, citizenship gave you citizenship (you were 1st generation born abroad). However your children are 2nd generation born abroad. The law limits passing of citizenship only to 1st generation born abroad. This means even though the certificate says you were Canadian since birth it really means "Government says you were citizen since "birth" since 2009 law." Anytime before April 17, 2009, you were not citizen and thus you were not Canadian when your children were born.

If you want your children to have Canadian citizenship, you first must sponsor your children for PR. Once they have PR, only then they can apply for citizenship.