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I am most likely a Canadian Citizen, but I can't prove it.

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
I was born in England and the Am I Canadian web page states.

Does at least one of the following statements apply to you?

  • When I was born, my parent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
  • When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
The second point is correct as my father was born in England whilst my Canadian grandfather was serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force during WWII

Now this is great news, but I have hit a brick wall in applying. I need to prove that my Grandfather was a Canadian Crown Servant, but to do this requires a copy of my deceased grandfather's death certificate and I cannot obtain this as my own father is also deceased and according to Vital Statistics in Canada grandchildren cannot apply for a death certificate.

I find that very strange given that I can prove that my own father is also dead.

Does anyone have any suggestions what I can do here as without the death certificate I cannot get the military service record which proves my grandfather was serving as a crown servant in England at the time my father was born.

My father's British birth certificate does state my grandfather's service number and also the initials RCAF, but this apparently is not sufficient and I need the service record.

Would be really sad to not be able to get my citizenship just because of the fact I cannot obtain a copy of the death certificate.

Anyone have any experience here as to what I might be able to do?
 

Eveslm

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Jun 21, 2018
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I was born in England and the Am I Canadian web page states.

Does at least one of the following statements apply to you?

  • When I was born, my parent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
  • When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
The second point is correct as my father was born in England whilst my Canadian grandfather was serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force during WWII

Now this is great news, but I have hit a brick wall in applying. I need to prove that my Grandfather was a Canadian Crown Servant, but to do this requires a copy of my deceased grandfather's death certificate and I cannot obtain this as my own father is also deceased and according to Vital Statistics in Canada grandchildren cannot apply for a death certificate.

I find that very strange given that I can prove that my own father is also dead.

Does anyone have any suggestions what I can do here as without the death certificate I cannot get the military service record which proves my grandfather was serving as a crown servant in England at the time my father was born.

My father's British birth certificate does state my grandfather's service number and also the initials RCAF, but this apparently is not sufficient and I need the service record.

Would be really sad to not be able to get my citizenship just because of the fact I cannot obtain a copy of the death certificate.

Anyone have any experience here as to what I might be able to do?
Grandchildren are not next of kin, but they fall under a relative of the deceased (who are eligible to apply for a death certificate when there are no living next of kin). So I think if there are no any other living next of kin, you can apply as a relative?
 

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
Grandchildren are not next of kin, but they fall under a relative of the deceased (who are eligible to apply for a death certificate when there are no living next of kin). So I think if there are no any other living next of kin, you can apply as a relative?
Unfortunately, there are other next of kin, but they are from when my grandfather remarried and I have never had any contact with them nor do have any contact details.
 

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
Thanks. Unfortunately, it states the below.

For individuals deceased less than 20 years: Limited personal information will be released to an immediate family member (spouse, parent, sibling, child or grandchild) of the individual concerned if proof of relationship and proof of death are provided. Proof of death is not required if the individual died while serving in the Canadian Armed Forces.

What's really annoying is that as a grandchild I can request the service record, but I cannot get the required proof of death. Hit a brick wall here.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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A couple things:

1) Although access to birth certificates is restricted, this generally doesn't apply to death certificates. I don't know in which province your grandfather was born or died, but the Ontario website (https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-get-copy-ontario-death-certificate-online#section-4) states:

"There are no restrictions on who can apply for a death certificate and no restriction on the number of death certificates you can apply for and receive."

There does, however, seem to be restricted access to a "certified" death record.

2) You do not actually require a death certificate to apply for your grandfather's service record. As stated here (https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/transparency/atippr/Pages/Access-information-military-files.aspx):

"The following are examples of documents accepted as proof of death: death certificate, newspaper obituary, funeral notice or photograph of the gravestone."

You may want to look on the Ancestry website (https://www.ancestry.co.uk) to locate this type of information. Here's a source specifically for photos of grave markers: https://www.findagrave.com/

If you still have a problem, feel free to send me a private message.
 
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canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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You don’t qualify for citizenship. Your father did. You are the grandchild. Did your father claim his a Canadian citizenship or return to Canada?
 

scylla

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You don’t qualify for citizenship. Your father did. You are the grandchild. Did your father claim his a Canadian citizenship or return to Canada?
That's inaccurate. Read up on the crown servant rules.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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That's inaccurate. Read up on the crown servant rules.
yes read that wrong. Given that the father is deceased and never claimed Canadian citizenship is OP entitled? I know my family is the opposite and my aunt and uncle were born during the war in England. My grandfather and his war bride returned to Canada. My cousins didn’t claim their UK citizenship so at a point they lost it.
 

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
yes read that wrong. Given that the father is deceased and never claimed Canadian citizenship is OP entitled? I know my family is the opposite and my aunt and uncle were born during the war in England. My grandfather and his war bride returned to Canada. My cousins didn’t claim their UK citizenship so at a point they lost it.
That's interesting. You maybe correct as I have yet not been able to find any information regarding whether a deceased parent means you still cannot claim citizenship. I have just on the basis of the question.

When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant

I have not been able to find the small print that states 'parent' must still be alive. If you have a link then please provide as it will save me a great deal of time and effort.
 

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
A couple things:

1) Although access to birth certificates is restricted, this generally doesn't apply to death certificates. I don't know in which province your grandfather was born or died, but the Ontario website (https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-get-copy-ontario-death-certificate-online#section-4) states:

"There are no restrictions on who can apply for a death certificate and no restriction on the number of death certificates you can apply for and receive."

There does, however, seem to be restricted access to a "certified" death record.

2) You do not actually require a death certificate to apply for your grandfather's service record. As stated here (https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/transparency/atippr/Pages/Access-information-military-files.aspx):

"The following are examples of documents accepted as proof of death: death certificate, newspaper obituary, funeral notice or photograph of the gravestone."

You may want to look on the Ancestry website (https://www.ancestry.co.uk) to locate this type of information. Here's a source specifically for photos of grave markers: https://www.findagrave.com/

If you still have a problem, feel free to send me a private message.
I'll see what comes of applying for a death certificate. Thanks for the offer of help and your helpful replies.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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yes read that wrong. Given that the father is deceased and never claimed Canadian citizenship is OP entitled? I know my family is the opposite and my aunt and uncle were born during the war in England. My grandfather and his war bride returned to Canada. My cousins didn’t claim their UK citizenship so at a point they lost it.
The grandchild born abroad to a parent born abroad to a Canadian in Crown service at the time of the birth is entitled to Canadian citizenship. It doesn't matter that the parent and grandparent are deceased.

canuck 78, you may want to suggest to your cousins that they use the "Am I Canadian?" tool (https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto). They're probably Canadian citizens.
 

flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
The grandchild born abroad to a parent born abroad to a Canadian in Crown service at the time of the birth is entitled to Canadian citizenship. It doesn't matter that the parent and grandparent are deceased.

canuck 78, you may want to suggest to your cousins that they use the "Am I Canadian?" tool (https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto). They're probably Canadian citizens.
Ok. Thanks. I seem to be getting quite a great deal of conflicting information regarding the fact that my Father & Grandfather are deceased.
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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Ok. Thanks. I seem to be getting quite a great deal of conflicting information regarding the fact that my Father & Grandfather are deceased.
My father was deceased when I applied for proof of citizenship. That doesn't matter. Simply use the citizenship tool:

https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto

1) Born outside Canada.
2) When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
3) You are probably a Canadian citizen.
 
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flanagaj

Newbie
Jan 25, 2020
9
1
My father was deceased when I applied for proof of citizenship. That doesn't matter. Simply use the citizenship tool:

https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto

1) Born outside Canada.
2) When my parent was born or adopted, my grandparent was a Canadian citizen (or a British subject, born or naturalized in Canada before 1947) who was employed outside Canada as a Crown servant
3) You are probably a Canadian citizen.
Thanks for clarifying. Always good to get advice from someone who actually has experience of the process. Most appreciated.