How to understand NOC description?

[Pichon]

Hi, I have this question and hope someone can advise me on this.
So I am thinking to apply under NOC 1211 - Supervisors, general office and administrative support workers. In the description of this NOC is written: "Supervisors in this unit group supervise and co-ordinate the activities of workers in minor groups: General Office Workers (141) and Office Equipment Operators (142)"
My question is: I am a Senior Training Coordinator. I supervise few people: training coordinator, trainers who are delivering our trainings, janitorial associate, office maintainance staff, content writer. I assign work for them, give a feedback, make schedules (for trainers), conduct performance review (janitorial), train them on company policies and procedures, etc. And I also perform more tasks that would fall under 1211 category.
But non of these people would belong to those 141 and 142 categories, that NOC 1211 should be supervising. Does it mean that most likely I would be rejected under this supervisors category? I am a bit lost...

 

[Pichon]

Anyone? ???

 

[Pichon]

Anyone?

 

[Jalex23]

Hi, I have this question and hope someone can advise me on this.
So I am thinking to apply under NOC 1211 - Supervisors, general office and administrative support workers. In the description of this NOC is written: "Supervisors in this unit group supervise and co-ordinate the activities of workers in minor groups: General Office Workers (141) and Office Equipment Operators (142)"
My question is: I am a Senior Training Coordinator. I supervise few people: training coordinator, trainers who are delivering our trainings, janitorial associate, office maintainance staff, content writer. I assign work for them, give a feedback, make schedules (for trainers), conduct performance review (janitorial), train them on company policies and procedures, etc. And I also perform more tasks that would fall under 1211 category.
But non of these people would belong to those 141 and 142 categories, that NOC 1211 should be supervising. Does it mean that most likely I would be rejected under this supervisors category? I am a bit lost...

Then you are not a 1211.

Pay attention to descriptions and less to titles.

I am a Software Engineer, but software engineer in Canada means something different than in my country, so I had to apply under IT Consultant. It was not easy to find it, I had to read all the descriptions and see which one was best suited for me. I suggest you do the same and if you feel that you can be rejected look for a better option. Do not risk it.

 

[iamroth]

You can apply for any NOC, but that NOC duties should almost match with your reference letter's duties.

Administrative officers (NOC 1221) is NOT accepted for CEC anymore.

I found this NOC close to your job duties. Though this NOC sounds a bit senior that yours.



http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/QuickSearch.aspx?val65=0714

NOC-0714 Facility operation and maintenance managers

Maintenance managers perform some or all of the following duties:

Direct the maintenance and repair of an establishment's machinery, equipment and electrical and mechanical systems
Develop and implement schedules and procedures for safety inspections and preventive maintenance programs
Co-ordinate cleaning, snow removal and landscaping operations
Administer contracts for the provision of supplies and services
Plan and manage a facility's maintenance budget
Hire and oversee training and supervision of staff.

Since your working with a lot of maintenance crew, i thought this may be closest. But as I said your reference letter duties should match whatever NOC you choose at the end.

 

[Pichon]

Thank you guys.
iamroth - I looked over the description of that NOC. I do not know, the thing is that I do a lot of different tasks.. some management and supervising, some admin as well. My company is organising and delivering professional IT courses and trainings, is a registered second career college. I've been trying to see other NOC, like 0651 or 0421 but not everything fits... Please maybe you have some idea which NOC I would fit the best? Here are my full duties and responsibilities:

Supervise Training Coordinator. Assign tasks. Review completed tasks.
Oversee Lead and Junior trainers.
Coordinate and prepare trainers’ schedules.
Prepare and manage schedules for Information technology trainings and courses.
Plan and coordinate departmental meetings.
Train associates on Information technology software and information systems.
Coordinate and deliver to associates internal trainings on company/departmental policies and procedures.
Conduct new associate’s orientation on a workplace.
Create, update and implement administrative systems and procedures and operation manuals.
Ensure systems, procedures, operation manuals are being followed by all associates in the company.
Collect and handle work-related feedback from trainers/associates/contractors and address their issues.
Manage and supervise Information Technology Exam testing center activities.
Manage facilities and janitorial services.
Assign tasks for Janitorial Associate. Schedule and conduct monthly job performance reviews.
Plan and arrange office Information Technology equipment purchase, maintenance and repair services.
Oversee office maintenance staff. Assign and review work, provide feedback.
Communicate technical issues and problems to User Support Associate and ensure effective solutions.
Assign tasks and provide feedback to Content Writer Associate.
Plan and order office supplies, janitorial supplies, maintain office inventory.
Communicate with clients, contractors and suppliers.
Perform other tasks as required.

 

[jes_ON]

vocational school adminstrator?
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ViewAllTitlesKeyword.aspx?val=0&val1=0421&val11=education&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

 

[Pichon]

You know jes_ON, I was just looking NOC 0421! Our company is registered Private career college since 2011, speciliazing in IT trainings. And yes, my part of my tasks are related to trainers, their schedules, course schedules, student registrations, contracts. Maybe I just should highlight more duties related to administration of activities of private college, so I wouldn't be confused with regular administrative officer.

The employment requirement for Administrators of vocational training schools is undergraduate degree in Business administration. I have in Information science and master in Management of Information Systems.
I think this would be acceptable, especialy because our company specializes in information technology trainings.

I have IELTS overall 7, so can apply under 0,A category.

My salary is kind of low, but my employer would have no problem to sign a paper stating that salary range in our organization is between $15-$19/hr. (that is true, not even training manager earns more than that.). I hope that would be ok too...

What do you think?

 

[jes_ON]

The work environment is a very important part of the NOC, so be sure your letter is clear about who your employer is and and the business line.

This NOC seems to be the best fit that I can find, but it's a bit of an awkward NOC code, given that the titles range from "coordinator" to "manager" to registar, dean, and director - some of which have higher level decision-making responsibilities than it sounds like you have. There are some elements of facilities operations, but you would expect that of an administrator. Anywhere you can use the words "plan" "direct" "manage" "supervise" will help, budget responsibilities would be expected if you have those. Who's your immediate supervisor? If it's the Director, that would be good...

 

[Pichon]

Hi jes_ON
thanks for your input.. For training/students related tasks I am reporting to Training Manager, for other tasks, like facilities, admin, office - to Director of company.

I will make sure that in the reference letter would be stated that it is a Private Career College and that the specialization is in IT career related trainings. I think it would be helpful also to add college registration certificates, just to prove that it is vocational training school...

What about the salary? Do you think it would work that kind of document my employer would sign, that salaries in the company are between $15-19/hr?

 

[jes_ON]

Hi jes_ON
thanks for your input.. For training/students related tasks I am reporting to Training Manager, for other tasks, like facilities, admin, office - to Director of company.

I will make sure that in the reference letter would be stated that it is a Private Career College and that the specialization is in IT career related trainings. I think it would be helpful also to add college registration certificates, just to prove that it is vocational training school...

What about the salary? Do you think it would work that kind of document my employer would sign, that salaries in the company are between $15-19/hr?

I would not worry so much about the salary, just make sure you get a good letter with all required details from your Director-

 

[Pichon]

Thanks! Will do my best... although I am soooo stressed about it ???

 

[Pichon]

Hi.. So I did send my duties to noc-cnp@workingincanada.gc.ca, just to get their opinion what NOC code would fit me best, and sent them these duties (which in my opinion clearly falls under NOC 0421):

Plan and coordinate schedules for trainings and courses.
Coordinate student registration and admission processes and procedures.
Maintain student registration records.
Manage training related documentation – course records, schedules, and curriculum.
Manage students’ related documentation – contracts, payment plans, certificates/diplomas, testimonials.
Supervise Lead and Junior trainers.
Plan and coordinate trainers’ schedules.
Conduct continuous training quality control and training evaluations.
Develop and implement training systems and procedures.
Manage training department operation manual.
Collaborate in development of training programs, subjects and modules.
Administer college registration and program renewals to Ministry of Colleges and Universities.
Plan, organize and participate in Student Advisory Council meetings.
Plan, organize and participate in Governing Board meetings.
Evaluate training related feedback from trainers/students. Submit reports to management.
Periodically review and update training and registration policies and procedures.
Determine allocations of funds for staff, supplies, materials, and equipment
Administer Certified Information Technology Exam Testing Center activities.
Plan and coordinate departmental meetings.
Train associates on Information technology software and information systems.
Coordinate and deliver to associates internal trainings on company/departmental policies and procedures.
Direct new associate’s orientation on a workplace.
Plan and arrange office Information Technology equipment purchase, maintenance and repair services.
Manage facilities maintenance and janitorial services.
Supervise office maintenance and janitorial staff. Assign and review work, provide feedback.
Plan and order office/training supplies, janitorial supplies.
Liaise with current and potential students, other partner institutions, government departments.
Execute other tasks as required

And they sent me the response:

"Based on the information that you have provided, the following National Occupational Classification (NOC) code may be appropriate for the occupation that you described. Please verify the link below to ensure that the education, main duties and employment requirements correspond to your occupation. You are in a better position to determine whether or not this NOC code reflects your job.

NOC code 1121 Human resources professionals (training and development consultant):
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/QuickSearch.aspx?val65=1121"

But I have nothing to do with HR. So now I am really lost... Under which I should apply? Should I rely on what they sent me? :-\

 

[jes_ON]

No, you do not have to go with the HRSDC opinion,as they state, "You are in a better position to determine whether or not this NOC code reflects your job," and the HRSDC opinion is in no way binding for CIC, who often interprets it differently (they are two different agencies with different objectives).

it means you did not provide enough contextual information, they interpreted training as "internal staff training," which I don't think is what you do - So take that as constructive feedback.

Also, your list of duties is very long - see if you can limit it to the 10 most important functions -

 

[Pichon]

Yes, I will definately take it as a feedback to make my duties a bit more clear. I had a feeling that they understood "trainings" as internal employee trainings.. maybe I should just use word "course" instead of "training".. or to add "vocational training", that it would be more appropriate for college.

So basically you are saying that one shouldn't list ALL his duties/functions, but only main/major? I thought that as much as possible..

Anyway, thank you so much jes_ON..