+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Help defeat the Conservatives for Bill C-24 (Federal Elections - October 19th)

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
By the way: sure, there are many who are of the view it worked for me (and friends perhaps), so all is well. And that is as far as they see things.

I suspect they are among those more inclined to vote for a leader whose narcissism and emphasis on self-interest is a high priority. It fits.

The rest of us care about fairness, and justice, and policies and practices upholding not denigrating democracy, even when we are not directly, individually affected.

As Albert Camus famously said, "I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice."
 

ERJOPA

Star Member
Jan 14, 2015
144
7
So..my wife, a lifelong Conservative, told me that because of how I was treated during my interview after I passed my test in Edmonton, she will vote NDP this election.

Just letting you all know :)
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
4,795
396
Toronto, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
09-01-2013
Doc's Request.
09-07-2013
AOR Received.
30-01-2013
File Transfer...
11-02-2013
Med's Done....
02-01-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
12-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
15-08-2013
LANDED..........
14-10-2013
dpenabill said:
Disparaging characterizations like "destroying immigration" are, of course, at best overbroad and uninformative.
Moderate views and disagreeing respectfully is unfortunately a a lost art these days as people's opinions have become much more extreme. I suppose it helps attract attention and "rally the troops" so to speak. But you end up with polarization too.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
keesio said:
Moderate views and disagreeing respectfully is unfortunately a a lost art these days as people's opinions have become much more extreme. I suppose it helps attract attention and "rally the troops" so to speak. But you end up with polarization too.
Actually, there are many, many Canadians weighing in respectfully on this election.

There is a facebook page for the Harperman sing-in plans for numerous cities in Canada September 17th. The comments/posts there, for example, are rife with many, many examples of Canadians engaging in reasonable and respectful discourse. They overwhelmingly encourage voters to get out the word to vote against Harper. For many good, well-founded reasons.

But given the extent of abuses by the Harper government, it is no surprise that many in Canada are so animated about getting Harper out of town, the level of rhetoric goes over the top. This is an important election for a great many, particularly those who have been following the damage the Harper government has done . . . and this includes the damage he has done to Canadian immigration and to many, many individual immigrants . . . as well as the general interest most genuine immigrants have about the welfare and future of this great country.
 

taleodor

Star Member
Jan 30, 2013
162
14
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
ERJOPA said:
So..my wife, a lifelong Conservative, told me that because of how I was treated during my interview after I passed my test in Edmonton, she will vote NDP this election.

Just letting you all know :)
Funny part is how Conservatives increase citizenship fees by 5 times and... cut CIC staff at the very same moment and... make promises of better service. I guess that goes to the incompetence bucket...
 

AlexRox

Star Member
Nov 29, 2013
127
13
taleodor said:
The exceptions are in hundreds of thousands people. I wouldn't call it 'some'. There is lots of proof on this forum (of course Cons are trying to hide this data, so it's not so easy to get it from official sources). That is exactly what it is, which is destroying legit immigration.

A simple question for you. How often do you see an advise on this forum to contact your local MP about an immigration issue? Do you consider such frequency of contacts and advises to contact to be normal?

The destruction of immigration system is not a done deal though, just a trend for now. There is still a chance to kick Conservatives out of the office.

The exceptions are in hundreds of thousands people. I wouldn't call it 'some'. There is lots of proof on this forum (of course Cons are trying to hide this data, so it's not so easy to get it from official sources). That is exactly what it is, which is destroying legit immigration.

A simple question for you. How often do you see an advise on this forum to contact your local MP about an immigration issue? Do you consider such frequency of contacts and advises to contact to be normal?

The destruction of immigration system is not a done deal though, just a trend for now. There is still a chance to kick Conservatives out of the office.
Well, with due respect I wouldn't agree with you. Let me give you an example/analogy if you consider a judicial system in any country , you would find some examples if misjudgment due to various reasons , what if we completely get rid of the judicial system to avoid those unfortunate incidents. Although this example is an extreme case , it aligns with my point. When you want to stop abuse government policies/procedures , you need to introduce new regulations which may give an extra burden to everyone. However that doesn't mean the addressing these root issues are bad.

In the case of CIC, of course they could have done certain things differently to make yours and my life easier. However as responsible/educated folks we must understand the reason behind this. As someone posted the immigration numbers have not decreased. So the reason would have been to stop/reduce bonus claims/abusing the system. I am sure you would understand the importance of doing so and the benefits to you and me. So as in any case we must tolerate/understand the situation considering the benefits of new regulations.

So answer your question.. how many times people get advise to talk lawyers to solve their legal matters ? Does that means the we need to get rid of it ?

I am not saying CIC/CPC has done a perfect job. What I am saying they haven't intentionally passed any rule to kill "legit" immigration.

If you still challenge my opinion, please give specific rules/provisions introduce in the passed to kill immigration ( in other word the intention of that kill to kill immigration rather than to address economic/social issues). I will surely get back to you with a lot of real facts behind these rules, as I have done a lot of fact finding/research in this subject before I came to this conclusion.

And again, I am not trying to say CPC is perfect . But when we get to decide who to rule our country I suggest you all to be broad minded and factor things like economic policies, leadership,etc in to your decision.

Thank you
 

AlexRox

Star Member
Nov 29, 2013
127
13
AlexRox said:
Well, with due respect I wouldn't agree with you. Let me give you an example/analogy if you consider a judicial system in any country , you would find some examples if misjudgment due to various reasons , what if we completely get rid of the judicial system to avoid those unfortunate incidents. Although this example is an extreme case , it aligns with my point. When you want to stop abuse government policies/procedures , you need to introduce new regulations which may give an extra burden to everyone. However that doesn't mean the addressing these root issues are bad.

In the case of CIC, of course they could have done certain things differently to make yours and my life easier. However as responsible/educated folks we must understand the reason behind this. As someone posted the immigration numbers have not decreased. So the reason would have been to stop/reduce bonus claims/abusing the system. I am sure you would understand the importance of doing so and the benefits to you and me. So as in any case we must tolerate/understand the situation considering the benefits of new regulations.

So answer your question.. how many times people get advise to talk lawyers to solve their legal matters ? Does that means the we need to get rid of it ?

I am not saying CIC/CPC has done a perfect job. What I am saying they haven't intentionally passed any rule to kill "legit" immigration.

If you still challenge my opinion, please give specific rules/provisions introduce in the passed to kill immigration ( in other word the intention of that kill to kill immigration rather than to address economic/social issues). I will surely get back to you with a lot of real facts behind these rules, as I have done a lot of fact finding/research in this subject before I came to this conclusion.

And again, I am not trying to say CPC is perfect . But when we get to decide who to rule our country I suggest you all to be broad minded and factor things like economic policies, leadership,etc in to your decision, it's not about just one personal experience.

Thank you
 

taleodor

Star Member
Jan 30, 2013
162
14
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Well, MPs and lawyers are not the same thing. You go to lawyer when you need an advise or you may have a case. You to MP when there is a federal level political issue. The mere fact that MPs need to be involved so frequently in the immigration matters means that the system is not working.

Now, we may have a very long conversation about what was the actual intention of CPC and so on and so forth. The point being however is that they have created a big mess, with hundreds of thousands people negatively impacted (please see above for some examples). So Conservatives' results speak for themselves. I believe, after almost 10 years in the office we should be discussing their results and not intentions.

Same goes for the economy btw, Canada is the only country from G-7 in recession. Harper is the only pm of Canada to lead the country into 2 recessions. But that would be off-topic to discuss.
 

AlexRox

Star Member
Nov 29, 2013
127
13
taleodor said:
Well, MPs and lawyers are not the same thing. You go to lawyer when you need an advise or you may have a case. You to MP when there is a federal level political issue. The mere fact that MPs need to be involved so frequently in the immigration matters means that the system is not working.

Now, we may have a very long conversation about what was the actual intention of CPC and so on and so forth. The point being however is that they have created a big mess, with hundreds of thousands people negatively impacted (please see above for some examples). So Conservatives' results speak for themselves. I believe, after almost 10 years in the office we should be discussing their results and not intentions.

Same goes for the economy btw, Canada is the only country from G-7 in recession. Harper is the only pm of Canada to lead the country into 2 recessions. But that would be off-topic to discuss.
As I said I just gave an analogy. People getting advised doesn't prove the point. Let me explain people getting advises is not an indication of how good the legal system is. In the same number way people getting advised on immigration to matters is not an indication of how good it is. For example let's say we have a system with 100% success rate , You just apply and in two minutes you get approved (no checks , etc) So people will not discuss about this as forums like this will not exist as there is not reason behind this. Does that mean such a system is good ? Regulations/rules are there for a reason.

Let that aside, I still believe CIC could have been more efficient , that's an administrative issue. But we are trying to prove the intention of CPC (aka Policy) , right ?

we should have diversified the economy more but this is a very unique situation for resource based economies ( let's talk about Saudi Arabia and many more ) . And yes any government should have done more to diversify our economy. And I will you agree with me to get out of this the economy has to be stimulated by private sector and government investment ( not by government expenditure).

So what are our options here ? Can you point out how some other economic policies (such as NDP) would do the above ? Increasing expenditure and discouraging private investments ? Also I appreciate if you explain me how such an economic policy has been successful by examples (in your home province if that applies) ? [In Alberta , now we are in a situation due to low oil price, again read my above comment. But it has been different in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada]
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
dpenabill said:
The rest of us care about fairness, and justice, and policies and practices upholding not denigrating democracy, even when we are not directly, individually affected.
I think we all care about fairness and justice. While there likely aren't too many people on this forum that were even in Canada during the last Liberal government, those who were surely remember the rampant fraud and abuse of the immigration system. It was a running joke in many parts of the world that to qualify for citizenship to Canada, you only had to visit twice: Once to land and once to collect your passport. Is that fair or just to those of us who contribute to Canada and try to make it a better country? Is it fair and just that you and I have to subsidize the education of these people's children (and children's children), pay for their healthcare when they decide to return to Canada, pay for their CCTB that they are illegally claiming, etc.?

I know that the Cons' policies have been far from perfect, but in my view, they have helped Canada tremendously by cracking down on the immigration and refugee fraud that was financially crippling us (and the full effects of which have yet to be seen). Looking at the policies that the other parties have related to this, not one seems to care, with Trudeau in particular seeming keen to go back to the mayhem that existed back in the early 2000's.
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
ZingyDNA said:
From your stats, I understand the number of immigrants has increased from approximately 216k in 1990 to 260k in 2014, which is a 20% increase. However, the population of Canada in 1990 is 27.8 million, compared to 35.5 million in 2014. So the population increased by over 27% from 1990 to 2014, but the immigrants only increased by 20%.

I wouldn't say the conservatives have taken immigration to an unprecedented level based on these facts.
Let's not cherry pick data. Here is a listing of the number of immigrants as a % of population for every year:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2013/permanent/index.asp

As you will see, the # of new PR's as a % of population under the Cons has (0.7% or 0.8%) been similar or greater than that under the Liberal government (0.6% - 0.9%). To me, that hardly seems like the Cons "killed immigration".

Further, since I have lived in Canada, I have never heard of a single politician talk about immigration as a % of population, but have rather always had numerical targets. Canada's immigration policies are determined by a number of factors, and population is likely just one of those. I personally find it to be entirely irrelevant and Canada's immigration targets should be based on the economy and infrastructure, and the number of newcomers it can handle rather than allowing in more people each year simply because the population has increased.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
From "let's not cherry pick data . . . " to focusing on characterizations like "destroyed immigration" or "killed" immigration, but ignoring the litany of legitimate criticisms duly aimed at Harper's governing, not to mention the four and five years of abuse hundreds of thousands of legitimate, genuine PRs applying for citizenship suffered under the Harper government (with Kenney and then Alexander the Ministers in charge), reflects the utterly underwhelming but persistent response of those who support Harper's continued reign, echoing the bankruptcy of the pro-Harper campaign.

The conservative response to a non-partisan aboriginal platform, for example, continues to utterly ignore the substance of real, serious issues, and in contrast repeats talking points about how the Conservatives will create jobs (despite nearly a decade of Harper government dominated by deep job losses, especially the loss of good jobs) and that is the best way to address the profoundly disparate gap between the dismal welfare of aboriginals in Canada versus the among-the-best in the world for the majority of other Canadians (the continuation of which, however, is in serious jeopardy if Harper forms the next government).

Many who lean Harper way tend to be among those who either do not care (Harper's apparent approach, based on the actions, or more to the point in-action, of his government) or who blame the aboriginal population as if it is not a national problem demanding federal solutions, as if addressing the problem responsibly is not the best way to elevate the lives of all Canadians. But blaming others is par for the Harper course. The U.S. housing and financial markets were to blame for the earlier recession on Harper's watch (ATH: According to Harper). Problems in China's economy are to blame for the current recession (ATH: a "technical" recession, allegedly in the "rear view mirror," even if few if any responsible economists agree with that), even though the problem in China's economy came after this year's first quarter in which the Canadian economy began shrinking. Harper was found in contempt of Parliament in 2011 because of his abuse of the parliamentary process and undemocratic withholding of key information from the members of Parliament, but ATH the blame for that was partisan politics by the opposition parties (a sort of they made me do it defence).

What is the defence for Harper's government involvement in corruption (for example the pay offs to individuals in an effort to avoid public disclosure of wrongdoing by favoured and key Harper appointees, orchestrated in PM Harper's own Prime Minister's Office (the PMO) by his top staff and closest advisers . . . and when it comes to what happened there, of course that too is someone else's fault)? That a previous government more than a decade ago was kicking back money in Quebec in an effort to consolidate political agendas? Clue: that someone else robbed the neighbourhood convenience mart is not a defence to robbing the convenience mart today. The old, other people are doing it excuse, let alone that ten years ago other people did it, is not justification for the abuses of power and corruption . . . which, by the way, goes right to the top of the PMO, right to Harper's immediate staff and advisers. The mere appointment of Duffy to the Senate, after all, was an exercise in corruption, an abuse of the Senate deliberately done for partisan political purposes. It backfired . . . but ATH, Harper is not to blame. Blame it on the guy he appointed, not the one making the appointment.

Harper's failure to live up to Canada's commitment to the UNHRC in providing aid to refugees is the fault of radical jihadism. ATH.

Harper's failure to proactively engage the Egyptian government on behalf of a persecuted Canadian journalist is dismissed as exaggerated. (For a long while, the Harper government refused to so much as issue a Travel Document to Famy despite the illegal seizure of Famy's Canadian passport.)

Nearly a decade after Canada turned its back on Mahar Arar and facilitated the U.S. in sending him to be tortured, allowing this Canadian citizen to wallow in horrendous conditions while being illegally and unjustly imprisoned, with the election looming now the government finally makes a purely symbolic gesture of issuing a warrant for the Syrian who orchestrated the torture as if . . . as if what?

The extent to which Canadian scientists are being muzzled is shocking, but there is no sign Harper's government is inclined to reverse policies which dictate that political operatives will decide what scientific research is to be shared with the public. This alone is an issue which at once reflects the undemocratic, autocratic nature of Harper's government and should be enough for the vast, vast majority of Canadians to be alarmed and motivated to go to the polls to send Harper packing.

Anyone who has been engaged in the process of obtaining information about what our government is doing, through the Access to Information process, has to be similarly alarmed by the manner in which Harper's reign has closed the door, closed the windows, pulled shut the curtains, and in general has a policy of concealing what the government's business is and how it does business from the public view.

There are many, many issues not so much about whose general policies, such as economic or foreign policies, are better for Canada . . . but about a government that is increasingly non-democratic, authoritarian, non-transparent, and simply wrong for Canada.

The level of emotion displayed by those singing "Harperman, it is time for you to go," in one form or another, reflects the widespread and deeply held apprehension that Harper is taking Canada way, way off course. It is no wonder there is vitriol. It is no wonder the epithets fly. Harper can blame everyone other than himself. Most of us know better. Most are committed to voting against Harper. But given the Canadian parliamentary system, particularly given the provisions of election law Harper rammed through Parliament with minimal study and minimal debate (in 2014), even if more than two out of three who actually vote, vote against Harper, it remains a distinct possibility that even then Harper could have enough ridings to be in a position to form the next government. It is critically important that concerned Canadians make a concerted effort to avoid that outcome. The country's future depends on it. Our future depends on it. Vote and vote smart! (And a vote for Harper is about as contrary to voting smart as can be imagined.)

Again, for immigrants, new citizens, prospective citizens, what is at stake in this election goes way beyond immigration and citizenship issues. All Canadians, including Canadian PRs, should be active in getting out the vote. It is time to heave Steve,, time to not just sing "Harperman, it's for you to go," but to get the message out about how important is for our country's future to change directions. Citizens should vote. Prospective citizens and PRs should encourage their citizen friends and family and neighbours to vote. Vote and vote smart.
 

Bigudi

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
377
17
Montreal
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-05-2015
AOR Received.
20-07-2015
LANDED..........
08-08-2011
CanadaJimmy said:
(...)
2) Two-tier citizenship - if you are ever decided by the government that you have committed a terrorist act, which they might decide is being involved in a protest for example, or you might simply have been in the wrong place and the wrong time, you can have your citizenship stripped of you. While I think it's quite unlikely to really affect anyone who doesn't deserve it, it sets a precedent that citizenship is not forever, more like it is "Permenant Residency 2.0" and that you do not have the same rights as someone born here. Naturalised citizens won't feel as included in Canada and this could actually make what it is trying to prevent (radicalisation) a worse problem.
(...)
Granted that being a "second class" citizenship is bad and unfair, I don't think this is the really bad part of this point. You know what is really dangerous? the citizenship revocation will be made by the Minister WITHOUT ANY TRIAL. That's right. The guy just wakes up in bad mood and BAM!
Denying a fair trial to anybody is a clear violation of a Rights Democratic State.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,877
549
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
Bigudi said:
Granted that being a "second class" citizenship is bad and unfair, I don't think this is the really bad part of this point. You know what is really dangerous? the citizenship revocation will be made by the Minister WITHOUT ANY TRIAL. That's right. The guy just wakes up in bad mood and BAM!
Denying a fair trial to anybody is a clear violation of a Rights Democratic State.
You do realize that you must be CONVICTED of terrorism / treason / citizenship fraud FIRST in the court of LAW. This is where you got your due processed. The revocation part is the sentence part of the conviction. Much like getting a sentence of life in jail for a conviction of first degree murder.

Not sure where you are getting this "2nd class" citizenship. Unless you are referring to those people who intend to live a life of fraud, terrorism or treason. On that premise, yes, they are "2nd class" citizen to "1st class" law abiding citizens.
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,677
261
dpenabill said:
From "let's not cherry pick data . . . " to focusing on characterizations like "destroyed immigration" or "killed" immigration, but ignoring the litany of legitimate criticisms duly aimed at Harper's governing, not to mention the four and five years of abuse hundreds of thousands of legitimate, genuine PRs applying for citizenship suffered under the Harper government (with Kenney and then Alexander the Ministers in charge), reflects the utterly underwhelming but persistent response of those who support Harper's continued reign, echoing the bankruptcy of the pro-Harper campaign.

The conservative response to a non-partisan aboriginal platform, for example, continues to utterly ignore the substance of real, serious issues, and in contrast repeats talking points about how the Conservatives will create jobs (despite nearly a decade of Harper government dominated by deep job losses, especially the loss of good jobs) and that is the best way to address the profoundly disparate gap between the dismal welfare of aboriginals in Canada versus the among-the-best in the world for the majority of other Canadians (the continuation of which, however, is in serious jeopardy if Harper forms the next government).

Many who lean Harper way tend to be among those who either do not care (Harper's apparent approach, based on the actions, or more to the point in-action, of his government) or who blame the aboriginal population as if it is not a national problem demanding federal solutions, as if addressing the problem responsibly is not the best way to elevate the lives of all Canadians. But blaming others is par for the Harper course. The U.S. housing and financial markets were to blame for the earlier recession on Harper's watch (ATH: According to Harper). Problems in China's economy are to blame for the current recession (ATH: a "technical" recession, allegedly in the "rear view mirror," even if few if any responsible economists agree with that), even though the problem in China's economy came after this year's first quarter in which the Canadian economy began shrinking. Harper was found in contempt of Parliament in 2011 because of his abuse of the parliamentary process and undemocratic withholding of key information from the members of Parliament, but ATH the blame for that was partisan politics by the opposition parties (a sort of they made me do it defence).

What is the defence for Harper's government involvement in corruption (for example the pay offs to individuals in an effort to avoid public disclosure of wrongdoing by favoured and key Harper appointees, orchestrated in PM Harper's own Prime Minister's Office (the PMO) by his top staff and closest advisers . . . and when it comes to what happened there, of course that too is someone else's fault)? That a previous government more than a decade ago was kicking back money in Quebec in an effort to consolidate political agendas? Clue: that someone else robbed the neighbourhood convenience mart is not a defence to robbing the convenience mart today. The old, other people are doing it excuse, let alone that ten years ago other people did it, is not justification for the abuses of power and corruption . . . which, by the way, goes right to the top of the PMO, right to Harper's immediate staff and advisers. The mere appointment of Duffy to the Senate, after all, was an exercise in corruption, an abuse of the Senate deliberately done for partisan political purposes. It backfired . . . but ATH, Harper is not to blame. Blame it on the guy he appointed, not the one making the appointment.

Harper's failure to live up to Canada's commitment to the UNHRC in providing aid to refugees is the fault of radical jihadism. ATH.

Harper's failure to proactively engage the Egyptian government on behalf of a persecuted Canadian journalist is dismissed as exaggerated. (For a long while, the Harper government refused to so much as issue a Travel Document to Famy despite the illegal seizure of Famy's Canadian passport.)

Nearly a decade after Canada turned its back on Mahar Arar and facilitated the U.S. in sending him to be tortured, allowing this Canadian citizen to wallow in horrendous conditions while being illegally and unjustly imprisoned, with the election looming now the government finally makes a purely symbolic gesture of issuing a warrant for the Syrian who orchestrated the torture as if . . . as if what?

The extent to which Canadian scientists are being muzzled is shocking, but there is no sign Harper's government is inclined to reverse policies which dictate that political operatives will decide what scientific research is to be shared with the public. This alone is an issue which at once reflects the undemocratic, autocratic nature of Harper's government and should be enough for the vast, vast majority of Canadians to be alarmed and motivated to go to the polls to send Harper packing.

Anyone who has been engaged in the process of obtaining information about what our government is doing, through the Access to Information process, has to be similarly alarmed by the manner in which Harper's reign has closed the door, closed the windows, pulled shut the curtains, and in general has a policy of concealing what the government's business is and how it does business from the public view.

There are many, many issues not so much about whose general policies, such as economic or foreign policies, are better for Canada . . . but about a government that is increasingly non-democratic, authoritarian, non-transparent, and simply wrong for Canada.

The level of emotion displayed by those singing "Harperman, it is time for you to go," in one form or another, reflects the widespread and deeply held apprehension that Harper is taking Canada way, way off course. It is no wonder there is vitriol. It is no wonder the epithets fly. Harper can blame everyone other than himself. Most of us know better. Most are committed to voting against Harper. But given the Canadian parliamentary system, particularly given the provisions of election law Harper rammed through Parliament with minimal study and minimal debate (in 2014), even if more than two out of three who actually vote, vote against Harper, it remains a distinct possibility that even then Harper could have enough ridings to be in a position to form the next government. It is critically important that concerned Canadians make a concerted effort to avoid that outcome. The country's future depends on it. Our future depends on it. Vote and vote smart! (And a vote for Harper is about as contrary to voting smart as can be imagined.)

Again, for immigrants, new citizens, prospective citizens, what is at stake in this election goes way beyond immigration and citizenship issues. All Canadians, including Canadian PRs, should be active in getting out the vote. It is time to heave Steve,, time to not just sing "Harperman, it's for you to go," but to get the message out about how important is for our country's future to change directions. Citizens should vote. Prospective citizens and PRs should encourage their citizen friends and family and neighbours to vote. Vote and vote smart.
It seems like this forum is filled with comments about why not to vote for the Cons, but I don't see too many people touting the pros of voting for any other party. Remember, you can't just vote against Harper....you have to vote for someone. Do you really think the NDP and Liberals would be better?