H&C for Family Reunification.

[Twinkletwin]

Hello,

id like to know your thoughts please.

Im a UK resident mother of 2. My children’s father is resident in Canada with PR and he has recently been granted visitation rights. At present, the visitation takes place via FaceTime which can be inconvenient and leaves the children in tears when the call has to come to an end. They long for their dad and the pandemic didn’t help matters either.

I am toying with the idea of relocating to Canada so that the kids can enjoy physical contact with their father as the father does not want to move back to the UK. I can alwaystake them for visits but in the long run, it will become too expensive and wouldn’t really help with the children bonding with their dad.

i have looked at different pathways but I don’t seem to fall into one for the purpose of my relocation.
Do you think I can benefit from the H&C route?

the children do not have PR yet but their father have now decided to sponsor them but he does not have sole custody and I’m not prepared to hand over my role as their primary carer. They are still rather young.

Your advices will be greatly appreciated.

 

[scylla]

Hello,

id like to know your thoughts please.

Im a UK resident mother of 2. My children’s father is resident in Canada with PR and he has recently been granted visitation rights. At present, the visitation takes place via FaceTime which can be inconvenient and leaves the children in tears when the call has to come to an end. They long for their dad and the pandemic didn’t help matters either.

I am toying with the idea of relocating to Canada so that the kids can enjoy physical contact with their father as the father does not want to move back to the UK. I can alwaystake them for visits but in the long run, it will become too expensive and wouldn’t really help with the children bonding with their dad.

i have looked at different pathways but I don’t seem to fall into one for the purpose of my relocation.
Do you think I can benefit from the H&C route?

the children do not have PR yet but their father have now decided to sponsor them but he does not have sole custody and I’m not prepared to hand over my role as their primary carer. They are still rather young.

Your advices will be greatly appreciated.

The H&C path will be trickly.

- IMO your chances are going to be extremely low without your children being PRs.
- To apply for H&C, you must be physically in Canada and remain in Canada while the application is processed.
- If you want to try the H&C route, you'll need to be prepared to move to Canada and live here without the ability to work or study, and without any health care coverage, for a period of up to 1.5 years while you wait for first stage approval.

Can you tell us more about your profile (i.e. age, education, work experience, etc.)? Maybe there's another option available that you haven't found yourself. Also, when you say "UK resident", do you mean UK passport holder or just someone residing in the UK temporarily? Important for us to know your nationality / what passport you hold.

 

[Twinkletwin]

The H&C path will be trickly.

- IMO your chances are going to be extremely low without your children being PRs.
- To apply for H&C, you must be physically in Canada and remain in Canada while the application is processed.
- If you want to try the H&C route, you'll need to be prepared to move to Canada and live here without the ability to work or study, and without any health care coverage, for a period of up to 1.5 years while you wait for first stage approval.

Can you tell us more about your profile (i.e. age, education, work experience, etc.)? Maybe there's another option available that you haven't found yourself. Also, when you say "UK resident", do you mean UK passport holder or just someone residing in the UK temporarily? Important for us to know your nationality / what passport you hold.

Thank you Scylla.
I’m a masters degrees holder in my late 30s with a background in finance but currently self employed as it gives me the flexibility to be present for the kids. My earnings come from my online businesses. I am also a British citizen.

The father would like to apply for the children’s PR in Canada and we have discussed me-taking them over to Canada for the purpose of applying for their PR. However, I don’t see how that can work without me living there with them as well because they are both still under 5 and he cannot raise them on his own. Nonetheless, he wants them to have the benefit of being Canadian PR and eventually Canadian Citizens I guess. The children are British too.

My job can be done remotely and I can still earn money if at all I decide on relocating via the H&C route. I will have to get health insurance. However, having to be without status in any country scares me. The only option available seems to be the study route but isn’t that a temporary resident thing?

 

[canuck78]

Hello,

id like to know your thoughts please.

Im a UK resident mother of 2. My children’s father is resident in Canada with PR and he has recently been granted visitation rights. At present, the visitation takes place via FaceTime which can be inconvenient and leaves the children in tears when the call has to come to an end. They long for their dad and the pandemic didn’t help matters either.

I am toying with the idea of relocating to Canada so that the kids can enjoy physical contact with their father as the father does not want to move back to the UK. I can alwaystake them for visits but in the long run, it will become too expensive and wouldn’t really help with the children bonding with their dad.

i have looked at different pathways but I don’t seem to fall into one for the purpose of my relocation.
Do you think I can benefit from the H&C route?

the children do not have PR yet but their father have now decided to sponsor them but he does not have sole custody and I’m not prepared to hand over my role as their primary carer. They are still rather young.

Your advices will be greatly appreciated.

Did you recently go to court in Canada or the UK to set up formal custody and/or child support payments? How much visitation does the father have and does the father plan on sponsoring the children or have the desire to play a very active role in the children’s lives? Based on your previous posts it seems as though you are the one who wants to relocate to Canada because you want to raise your children here. It’s unfortunate but there are many parents who share children but live in different countries. The FaceTime calls seem to have only been started recently and not being convenient is not really a reason to be grated PR in a country.

 

[scylla]

Thank you Scylla.
I’m a masters degrees holder in my late 30s with a background in finance but currently self employed as it gives me the flexibility to be present for the kids. My earnings come from my online businesses. I am also a British citizen.

The father would like to apply for the children’s PR in Canada and we have discussed me-taking them over to Canada for the purpose of applying for their PR. However, I don’t see how that can work without me living there with them as well because they are both still under 5 and he cannot raise them on his own. Nonetheless, he wants them to have the benefit of being Canadian PR and eventually Canadian Citizens I guess. The children are British too.

My job can be done remotely and I can still earn money if at all I decide on relocating via the H&C route. I will have to get health insurance. However, having to be without status in any country scares me. The only option available seems to be the study route but isn’t that a temporary resident thing?

- You are good to work remotely from Canada provided you have no Canadian customers / clients.
- Assuming you come to Canada on an eTA, you'll be allowed into the country for six months. If you decide to apply for H&C, you can apply to extend your stay. However no guarantee that will be approved and you may end up in Canada without status while you wait for the H&C decision. Note that if H&C is refused, this could complicate your ability to visit Canada in the future.
- Yes, the study permit route is temporary only. It's possible this can provide you with a path to PR but not guaranteed. If you want to try this path, make sure you take a 2 year program so that you qualify for a 3 year work permit afterwards and give yourself the highest chance at PR. At this point your age is probably your main barrier and will cause you to lose points. But this doesn't mean it's not possible.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Twinkletwin]

- You are good to work remotely from Canada provided you have no Canadian customers / clients.
- Assuming you come to Canada on an eTA, you'll be allowed into the country for six months. If you decide to apply for H&C, you can apply to extend your stay. However no guarantee that will be approved and you may end up in Canada without status while you wait for the H&C decision. Note that if H&C is refused, this could complicate your ability to visit Canada in the future.
- Yes, the study permit route is temporary only. It's possible this can provide you with a path to PR but not guaranteed. If you want to try this path, make sure you take a 2 year program so that you qualify for a 3 year work permit afterwards and give yourself the highest chance at PR. At this point your age is probably your main barrier and will cause you to lose points. But this doesn't mean it's not possible.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide.

Yes, I fear that refusal of the H&C visa will mean that I’ll be excluded from entering Canada in the future as my true intentions will be in question but could they really exclude children who have to see their father as the courts have stipulated it? I’m thinking that the best interest of a child should come first above any and Canada having ratified the UNCHR into domestic law should want to do whatever it can to safeguard the rights of children?

As per the study route, I wonder if I’d truly be eligible as the visa officer, again, might doubt my intentions to only stay temporarily and return to my country after studies because I will be accompanied by “PR” children.

 

[scylla]

Yes, I fear that refusal of the H&C visa will mean that I’ll be excluded from entering Canada in the future as my true intentions will be in question but could they really exclude children who have to see their father as the courts have stipulated it? I’m thinking that the best interest of a child should come first above any and Canada having ratified the UNCHR into domestic law should want to do whatever it can to safeguard the rights of children?

As per the study route, I wonder if I’d truly be eligible as the visa officer, again, might doubt my intentions to only stay temporarily and return to my country after studies because I will be accompanied by “PR” children.

The H&C bit is a really tough call. I would strongly recommend you consult with a very good lawyer. Best interests of a child do not guarantee a positive outcome. There are plenty of refusals where kids are involved unfortunately. IMO what complicates your case is the fact that you are from the UK (first world country) and your kids have lived their lives there so far.

For the study permit, your planned studies in Canada would need to be full time and would need to make sense in light of your previous education and your work experience.

 

[canuck78]

Yes, I fear that refusal of the H&C visa will mean that I’ll be excluded from entering Canada in the future as my true intentions will be in question but could they really exclude children who have to see their father as the courts have stipulated it? I’m thinking that the best interest of a child should come first above any and Canada having ratified the UNCHR into domestic law should want to do whatever it can to safeguard the rights of children?

As per the study route, I wonder if I’d truly be eligible as the visa officer, again, might doubt my intentions to only stay temporarily and return to my country after studies because I will be accompanied by “PR” children.

What has the court actually stipulated and is the father wanting to have visitation/custody. Given that you live in different countries I assume the visitation agreements would have been based on the fact that the father is not in the UK. As @scylla has pointed out your children are settled in the UK. It is not necessarily in the best interest of the children for you to uproot them. If the Canadian father is wanting to sponsor the children and wants to pursue shared custody then perhaps you have a better argument. There are many parents who have separated that live in different countries or in different parts of Canada so it is possible for your children to still have visitation with their father if he lives in a different country. Do you have family in the UK?

 

[Twinkletwin]

What has the court actually stipulated and is the father wanting to have visitation/custody. Given that you live in different countries I assume the visitation agreements would have been based on the fact that the father is not in the UK. As @scylla has pointed out your children are settled in the UK. It is not necessarily in the best interest of the children for you to uproot them. If the Canadian father is wanting to sponsor the children and wants to pursue shared custody then perhaps you have a better argument. There are many parents who have separated that live in different countries or in different parts of Canada so it is possible for your children to still have visitation with their father if he lives in a different country. Do you have family in the UK?

Do you have children of your own? Will you be content to keep travelling back and forth to see them a few times in a year and only get to spend 2weeks maximum at a time because your workplace can only permit you 2weeks in the year? If you want to play an active role in your children’s lives and the other parent is willing and able to move closer to you to you so that your children can have a relationship that will undoubtedly be beneficial to their development would that be a problem?

 

[Twinkletwin]

The H&C bit is a really tough call. I would strongly recommend you consult with a very good lawyer. Best interests of a child do not guarantee a positive outcome. There are plenty of refusals where kids are involved unfortunately. IMO what complicates your case is the fact that you are from the UK (first world country) and your kids have lived their lives there so far.

For the study permit, your planned studies in Canada would need to be full time and would need to make sense in light of your previous education and your work experience.

oh I never thought for a second that choosing to go that route would mean a guarantee positive outcome. I understand that it is a discretionary rule but as that seems the only Plausible route aside study permit, I was seriously considering it. The worst that could happen is refusal and difficulty in accessing the country in future.

Yes, I have looked into the Student route in detail. That is another option. Thank you so much for being kind.

 

[Twinkletwin]

What has the court actually stipulated and is the father wanting to have visitation/custody. Given that you live in different countries I assume the visitation agreements would have been based on the fact that the father is not in the UK. As @scylla has pointed out your children are settled in the UK. It is not necessarily in the best interest of the children for you to uproot them. If the Canadian father is wanting to sponsor the children and wants to pursue shared custody then perhaps you have a better argument. There are many parents who have separated that live in different countries or in different parts of Canada so it is possible for your children to still have visitation with their father if he lives in a different country. Do you have family in the UK?

Do you have children of your own? Will you be content to keep travelling back and forth to see them a few times in a year and only get to spend 2weeks maximum at a time because your workplace can only permit you 2weeks in the year? If you want to play an active role in your children’s lives and the other parent is willing and able to move closer to you to you so that your children can have a relationship that will undoubtedly be beneficial to their development would that be a problem?

 

[Twinkletwin]

The H&C bit is a really tough call. I would strongly recommend you consult with a very good lawyer. Best interests of a child do not guarantee a positive outcome. There are plenty of refusals where kids are involved unfortunately. IMO what complicates your case is the fact that you are from the UK (first world country) and your kids have lived their lives there so far.

For the study permit, your planned studies in Canada would need to be full time and would need to make sense in light of your previous education and your work experience.

If the visa officer feels that it is okay to exclude me because the children were habitually resident in the UK and being a first world country, then Canada is not so big on family reunification as it purports to be. Just because children will not face economic hardship does not mean been separated from a parent who could play such pivotal role in their lives is not hardship. Every child needs two parents in their lives and government bodies should work encourage reunification for parents who are willing to co-parent. I should save that argument for the decision maker, right?

 

[scylla]

If the visa officer feels that it is okay to exclude me because the children were habitually resident in the UK and being a first world country, then Canada is not so big on family reunification as it purports to be. Just because children will not face economic hardship does not mean been separated from a parent who could play such pivotal role in their lives is not hardship. Every child needs two parents in their lives and government bodies should work encourage reunification for parents who are willing to co-parent. I should save that argument for the decision maker, right?

That's not how you argue your case and not something I would recommend you include as an argument in the application. If it was that simple, anyone with a child could simply say this and get approved through H&C. The burden of proof is on you to prove your situation warrants H&C.

I do think it would be a good idea for you to work with a lawyer so that you can get support on how to put together a strong application. Calling out Canada isn't going to help you. What you need to do is put together a strong argument for H&C in your specific case, using best interests of a child, and demonstrate how your children will be impacted if you are not approved (including evidence). The burden is on you to make the case and provide evidence to support this.

Suggest you also read through this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/humanitarian-compassionate-consideration/processing/assessment-best-interests-child.html

Hope this helps.

 

[Twinkletwin]

That's not how you argue your case and not something I would recommend you include as an argument in the application. If it was that simple, anyone with a child could simply say this and get approved through H&C. The burden of proof is on you to prove your situation warrants H&C.

I do think it would be a good idea for you to work with a lawyer so that you can get support on how to put together a strong application. Calling out Canada isn't going to help you. What you need to do is put together a strong argument for H&C in your specific case, using best interests of a child, and demonstrate how your children will be impacted if you are not approved (including evidence). The burden is on you to make the case and provide evidence to support this.

Suggest you also read through this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/humanitarian-compassionate-consideration/processing/assessment-best-interests-child.html

Hope this helps.

Thank you very much for the resource provided. I have actually read it and currently perusing some caselaw I. That regard also.

My previous comment was actually a tongue in cheek one and not meant to be serious at all. I guess I was venting a bit

 

[canuck78]

If the visa officer feels that it is okay to exclude me because the children were habitually resident in the UK and being a first world country, then Canada is not so big on family reunification as it purports to be. Just because children will not face economic hardship does not mean been separated from a parent who could play such pivotal role in their lives is not hardship. Every child needs two parents in their lives and government bodies should work encourage reunification for parents who are willing to co-parent. I should save that argument for the decision maker, right?

The argument can easily be made that it is a parents responsibility to make arrangements so they don’t leave their children. Your ex left the UK and based on your previous posts seems to have made minimal effort to support them. Uprooting children from the only home they have known is also an argument for remaining in the UK. If your ex isn’t interested in more visitation then the custody agreement is for phone calls your argument for remaining in Canada is weakened. If the father has taken steps to be a very active co-parent/get partial custody and is not able to live or work in the UK then the argument for H&C increases. Not all parents are able to live in the same places. It is just a fact of life and children adjust. Agree that you should be consulting a lawyer. Difficulty visiting Canada in the future could have a major impact on your children as well.