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Full time contract work experience in Canada - Rejected PR application

redden

Newbie
Aug 13, 2014
2
0
Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone was/is in a similar situation as I am and found a way around it.

I recently fulfilled all the requirements for a PR under CEC requirements and sent in my application around November of 2013. About May of 2014 I received my rejection letter and it reads:

"...Your letter of employment signed by ABC (I've decided to hide the true name for sensitivity reasons) issued in October 2013 in United States does not provide your main responsibilities and duties. You also provided an "Offer of Employment" covering the period of July 2012 to August 2013, but the contract has been issued and signed in June 2013. Again your contract does not provide your duties. Your Canadian employer, ABC, does not have a business address in Canada. Therefore I am not satisfied that you acquired in Canada, within the three years before the date on which your application for permanent residence was made, at least one year of full-time work experience, or the equivalent in part-time work experience, in one or more occupations that are listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix as per the requirements of Regulation 87.1(2)(a) ..."

I worked under a contract initially set for 3 months in a financial services firm in Canada (I will call it the Client, and just to note - it is a reputable firm) which was facilitated through ABC. After 3 months, my contract was extended over and over again for varying amounts of time, but totaling one full year. The offer of employment that ABC sent me whenever a contract renewal was sent, still kept the original start date. So, for instance, since I originally started in July of 2012 and my initial contract ended on September 31st 2012, the first renewal offer came before September 2012 but in the employment offer itself it did not change the start date. It still showed a start date of July 2012, the only thing being changed is the end date which is now a date that is later than September 31 2012. The letter that the CIC agent is referring to is my last offer of employment renewal that occurred around June of 2013, with an end date of August 2013. That was the only letter I provided them, as I thought it would be sufficient.

The biggest problem for me though is trying to convince CIC that I did work in Canada for one year. The Client refuses to write me any letter corroborating that I worked there since I was never officially employed by the Client, but rather by ABC itself. ABC's letter of employment on my behalf is lackluster and they cannot provide information regarding my main duties and responsibilities as they have no access to that information. To make matters worse, ABC's headquarters is in Texas. Also, after trying to get the Client to write me a letter stating that they and ABC maintain a relationship to facilitate contract hires and that I am one of them, the Client reached out to my manager whom I worked under during my one year at the Client and advised him not to write me anything.

This puts me in a very difficult place because I cannot find a way around proving what my main duties and responsibilities were, as well, I cannot prove that I worked in Canada. ABC says they have an address in Canada, and they've 'fixed' their letter to include their Canadian address, but a quick google search of that address does not return anything that easily points to ABC. It refers to a Law firm, but ABC says that it is their registered corporate address. I have yet to fully understand what that means. When I spoke to other people in the firm who were in my situation, they basically said that their managers wrote a letter anyway on the Client's official letterhead and that it served as enough proof to merit their PR approval. My manager, however, would not do it.

After the PR refusal, since my employment with ABC and the Client has ended, ABC provided me with an ROE (Record of Employment). It has all of my pay stubs in Canadian Dollars, but shows ABC with its U.S. address as the employer. Would this help in a new application? I am worried that the U.S. address will throw off CIC again.

Does anyone have any advice that they can offer? If I've left out anything please let me know, and I hope whoever else is in this boat that they find the answers.

Thank you.
 

Hichaman

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Mar 12, 2013
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sorry to hear that, can you share your timeline.
 

maniac2403

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Mar 19, 2013
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redden said:
Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone was/is in a similar situation as I am and found a way around it.

I recently fulfilled all the requirements for a PR under CEC requirements and sent in my application around November of 2013. About May of 2014 I received my rejection letter and it reads:

"...Your letter of employment signed by ABC (I've decided to hide the true name for sensitivity reasons) issued in October 2013 in United States does not provide your main responsibilities and duties. You also provided an "Offer of Employment" covering the period of July 2012 to August 2013, but the contract has been issued and signed in June 2013. Again your contract does not provide your duties. Your Canadian employer, ABC, does not have a business address in Canada. Therefore I am not satisfied that you acquired in Canada, within the three years before the date on which your application for permanent residence was made, at least one year of full-time work experience, or the equivalent in part-time work experience, in one or more occupations that are listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix as per the requirements of Regulation 87.1(2)(a) ..."

I worked under a contract initially set for 3 months in a financial services firm in Canada (I will call it the Client, and just to note - it is a reputable firm) which was facilitated through ABC. After 3 months, my contract was extended over and over again for varying amounts of time, but totaling one full year. The offer of employment that ABC sent me whenever a contract renewal was sent, still kept the original start date. So, for instance, since I originally started in July of 2012 and my initial contract ended on September 31st 2012, the first renewal offer came before September 2012 but in the employment offer itself it did not change the start date. It still showed a start date of July 2012, the only thing being changed is the end date which is now a date that is later than September 31 2012. The letter that the CIC agent is referring to is my last offer of employment renewal that occurred around June of 2013, with an end date of August 2013. That was the only letter I provided them, as I thought it would be sufficient.

The biggest problem for me though is trying to convince CIC that I did work in Canada for one year. The Client refuses to write me any letter corroborating that I worked there since I was never officially employed by the Client, but rather by ABC itself. ABC's letter of employment on my behalf is lackluster and they cannot provide information regarding my main duties and responsibilities as they have no access to that information. To make matters worse, ABC's headquarters is in Texas. Also, after trying to get the Client to write me a letter stating that they and ABC maintain a relationship to facilitate contract hires and that I am one of them, the Client reached out to my manager whom I worked under during my one year at the Client and advised him not to write me anything.

This puts me in a very difficult place because I cannot find a way around proving what my main duties and responsibilities were, as well, I cannot prove that I worked in Canada. ABC says they have an address in Canada, and they've 'fixed' their letter to include their Canadian address, but a quick google search of that address does not return anything that easily points to ABC. It refers to a Law firm, but ABC says that it is their registered corporate address. I have yet to fully understand what that means. When I spoke to other people in the firm who were in my situation, they basically said that their managers wrote a letter anyway on the Client's official letterhead and that it served as enough proof to merit their PR approval. My manager, however, would not do it.

After the PR refusal, since my employment with ABC and the Client has ended, ABC provided me with an ROE (Record of Employment). It has all of my pay stubs in Canadian Dollars, but shows ABC with its U.S. address as the employer. Would this help in a new application? I am worried that the U.S. address will throw off CIC again.

Does anyone have any advice that they can offer? If I've left out anything please let me know, and I hope whoever else is in this boat that they find the answers.

Thank you.
Ask your Canadian client to issue you a letter with duties and mention that you were on contract from ABC for the duration X,20XX to Y,20YY, etc. It is important to get this letter mentioning hours, duration and duties from a Canadian company.
 

jes_ON

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Jun 22, 2009
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Unfortunately, your application did not have sufficient documentation, and it appears you did not provide a written explanation for the missing documentation.

No idea why your Canadian manager responded so negatively, but if you are contracted to work for a client, and ask the client for a letter of "employment," this can be disconcerting, since (a) you are not legally employed by a client, and (b) it implies that you do not understand the nature of your relationship with the client. You have to modify what you are asking for - a letter of assignment (contractual arrangement), job duties, hours per week - but it would be a supplement to the letter you get from your employer.

You can try again, but you will have to provide documentation covering the ENTIRE period of work in Canada. Anything you cannot provide requires a Letter of Explanation. The ROE will help a lot, as will any proof you have of your client manager's refusal to write a letter. You can also provide the contact information of the client company / manager - even if they refuse to write you a letter, it's unlikely that they would lie to CIC if they received a phone call.

What remains is to provide some "proof" of your job duties, and it sounds like you don't have anything like that. Is there any one else in the client company that could describe your job duties - a co-worker for example?
 

redden

Newbie
Aug 13, 2014
2
0
Hi everyone,

maniac2403: Part of my problem is that the HR dept. of the Canadian client refuses to write a letter stating that I was present in their office during my contracts, and have also instructed my manager not to write me anything (I suppose it is for liability reasons since I was not officially an employee of the Canadian Client).

Hichaman: As for the timeline, I started working at the client site on July 2012 and had a series of contract renewals that resulted in a cumulative one year of full time work experience, ending in the beginning of August of 2013.
Around September of 2013 I started my application for my PR, received my confirmation of eligibility and then applied for an Open Work Permit. It was around May of 2014 that I received my letter of refusal and I have been trying to come up with a strategy to re-apply for a positive outcome this time.

jes_ON: You are right, the documentation that I provided them is lacking in hindsight (I did not believe that I would be refused, and did not imagine the Client to be unwilling to disclose my involvement in their company. Now I've learned and I am trying to find the right path to proceed from here).

Would the HR from the Canadian client be obligated to provide a letter of assignment? If they respond negatively to that request as well, then would it simply then be a matter of a Letter of Explanation that I would provide to CIC? (I will not leave anything out and explain the refusal of the Canadian client to write a letter of assignment, and my ex-manager's refusal to write a letter stating what my job duties were and so on.)

As for co-workers - this will sound unbelievable. The last two members of the team, aside from our manager, have decided to switch teams within the Canadian client. They are still there, just working for a different team. Can a letter from them, written with the official letterhead of the Canadian client be helpful still?

Thank you all for your replies and help.
 

maniac2403

Champion Member
Mar 19, 2013
1,103
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Provided with application
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redden said:
Hi everyone,

maniac2403: Part of my problem is that the HR dept. of the Canadian client refuses to write a letter stating that I was present in their office during my contracts, and have also instructed my manager not to write me anything (I suppose it is for liability reasons since I was not officially an employee of the Canadian Client).

Hichaman: As for the timeline, I started working at the client site on July 2012 and had a series of contract renewals that resulted in a cumulative one year of full time work experience, ending in the beginning of August of 2013.
Around September of 2013 I started my application for my PR, received my confirmation of eligibility and then applied for an Open Work Permit. It was around May of 2014 that I received my letter of refusal and I have been trying to come up with a strategy to re-apply for a positive outcome this time.

jes_ON: You are right, the documentation that I provided them is lacking in hindsight (I did not believe that I would be refused, and did not imagine the Client to be unwilling to disclose my involvement in their company. Now I've learned and I am trying to find the right path to proceed from here).

Would the HR from the Canadian client be obligated to provide a letter of assignment? If they respond negatively to that request as well, then would it simply then be a matter of a Letter of Explanation that I would provide to CIC? (I will not leave anything out and explain the refusal of the Canadian client to write a letter of assignment, and my ex-manager's refusal to write a letter stating what my job duties were and so on.)

As for co-workers - this will sound unbelievable. The last two members of the team, aside from our manager, have decided to switch teams within the Canadian client. They are still there, just working for a different team. Can a letter from them, written with the official letterhead of the Canadian client be helpful still?

Thank you all for your replies and help.

A letter of refusal does help matters. In addition, you could try sending letter from your colleagues, the refusal letter, ROE, T4, NOA and pay stubs and your cover letter to support your work experience in Canada. In addition, try for the PNP stream if you are eligible.
 

felixfinch

Full Member
Jun 25, 2013
39
1
Just on this bit

It has all of my pay stubs in Canadian Dollars, but shows ABC with its U.S. address as the employer. Would this help in a new application? I am worried that the U.S. address will throw off CIC again
I got my experience in Canada at the Canadian office of a US company. My payslips show the US address, doesn't seem to have caused a problem. We were paid in US dollars which ADP then converted into CAD. The work experience was in Canada, I paid tax in Canada etc, it shouldn't be an issue.
 

jes_ON

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redden said:
Would the HR from the Canadian client be obligated to provide a letter of assignment?

No, unfortunately they are not even legally obligated to provide a letter of employment for employees.

If they respond negatively to that request as well, then would it simply then be a matter of a Letter of Explanation that I would provide to CIC? (I will not leave anything out and explain the refusal of the Canadian client to write a letter of assignment, and my ex-manager's refusal to write a letter stating what my job duties were and so on.)

Include the Record of Employment, some paystubs if you have them, and documentation of the refusal (get it in writing, e.g. email, if you can!)

As for co-workers - this will sound unbelievable. The last two members of the team, aside from our manager, have decided to switch teams within the Canadian client. They are still there, just working for a different team. Can a letter from them, written with the official letterhead of the Canadian client be helpful still?

It will help, yes, esp. if they can describe your job duties, location of work, hours worked, and the circumstances of your assignment, and are willing to give their contact details...
 

Anuj24031991

Newbie
Jul 18, 2018
1
1
Hello... I have a question if anyone can answer, would be a great favor on me. I recently joined a company as an civil technician but in contract basis of one year. Is there any problem while the PR when you worked on contract basis?
 
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jes_ON

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Hello... I have a question if anyone can answer, would be a great favor on me. I recently joined a company as an civil technician but in contract basis of one year. Is there any problem while the PR when you worked on contract basis?
"contract basis" can mean different things. I am now a full-time permanent employee, but I also had to sign a contract. So it is not the existence of a contract that is the issue.

Eligible
Before, I was a full-time contract employee, with on a renewable annual contract. This is term-limited employment, and yes, it is eligible. The point is, contractually, you are an EMPLOYEE of the firm. The employer takes the statutory deductions out of your pay , you get a T4, you receive employee benefits, etc.

NOT eligible -
1) "contractors" who are self-employed working for a client (not an employer). Self-employment is not eligible.

Grey zone:
"on a contract basis" can also mean that you are hired by one company to work for a third party - the first company is technically your employer, the 2nd your client, but you perform all the work at the client location, under the supervision of the client.

This is grey zone because the work has been and continues to be accepted as work experience. However, for the purpose of having a valid job offer (of future employment) for the bonus points, this is NOT accepted.
 
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karamsialka

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Jul 27, 2016
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"contract basis" can mean different things. I am now a full-time permanent employee, but I also had to sign a contract. So it is not the existence of a contract that is the issue.

Eligible
Before, I was a full-time contract employee, with on a renewable annual contract. This is term-limited employment, and yes, it is eligible. The point is, contractually, you are an EMPLOYEE of the firm. The employer takes the statutory deductions out of your pay , you get a T4, you receive employee benefits, etc.

NOT eligible -
1) "contractors" who are self-employed working for a client (not an employer). Self-employment is not eligible.

Grey zone:
"on a contract basis" can also mean that you are hired by one company to work for a third party - the first company is technically your employer, the 2nd your client, but you perform all the work at the client location, under the supervision of the client.

This is grey zone because the work has been and continues to be accepted as work experience. However, for the purpose of having a valid job offer (of future employment) for the bonus points, this is NOT accepted.

Hello Sir

Currently, Am working under Gret Zone.

Am working for the third party. So will it work as a work experience at the time of applying a permanent resident?
 

jes_ON

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Hello Sir

Currently, Am working under Gret Zone.

Am working for the third party. So will it work as a work experience at the time of applying a permanent resident?
LOL, you quoted the answer to your question...