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[RSub]

Canada's foreign student push 'mismatched' job market, data shows

 

[abhiram.kumar]

Canada's foreign student push 'mismatched' job market, data shows

Why am I not surprised? A large portion of these international students have come over here to gain a backdoor entry into Canada and now that they cannot stay permanently, they’re behaving like shameless beggars. Public colleges, provincial governments, agents in their home countries, the federal government and these students are equally culpable for this mess. Well, the only good thing is that the gravy train is over and the damage is done. The conservative government has to find a polite way to tell some of these kids that if they’re not qualified for PR, they will have to leave. This is going to be a huge mess.

 

[GandiBaat]

Canada's foreign student push 'mismatched' job market, data shows

Its quite evident... Canada was running a diploma mill scam or atleast abetting to it. "Others" "Unspecified" combined is a whooping 700K! Business Commerce and management at 750K? Sure as hell Canada was not training next gen MBA in such droves.

 

[GandiBaat]

Why am I not surprised? A large portion of these international students have come over here to gain a backdoor entry into Canada and now that they cannot stay permanently, they’re behaving like shameless beggars. Public colleges, provincial governments, agents in their home countries, the federal government and these students are equally culpable for this mess. Well, the only good thing is that the gravy train is over and the damage is done. The conservative government has to find a polite way to tell some of these kids that if they’re not qualified for PR, they will have to leave. This is going to be a huge mess.

Backdoor entry into Canada????

SP + PGP + CEC is as front door as it gets! At one point, there were CEC only draws for many months! Its the proverbial flagship immigration program. of Canada.
SP + PNP (Provincial graduates) is as front door as it gets! It is the proverbial flagship provincial nomination immigration program of canada!

Canada famously have very very active pathways for Canadian graduated folks to PR.
TR to PR can at worst be thought as a side door because government of Canada only opened it. LOL!

There was no backdoor entry. Canada was admitting students through a WIDE open front door. It was bait and switch. They baited them with shoddy immigration programs like TR to PR and then switched with NoC and french specific draws.

Its quite funny to see how some folks will bend over backwards to absolve main culprit in this sordid affair ie Canadian government! Remember folks, these were not people coming on boats or anything. These were people who were sold dream of PR (fully endrosed by Canadian government by their actions like TR to PR and PR pathways for students) by Canada. Sure as hell those students were suckers and got duped. Canadians were also suckered into accepting literal gangsters due to extremely shoddy vetting and equally shoddy diploma mills.

And no, Conservatives will do damn nothing about it. Canada has a famous policy of leaving their collaborators in sordid affair hanging high and dry. They left their own countrymen so these are just foreign students. They will be stuffed in files and burried in some ottawa office storage and nothing will be done. Its very canadian to not do anything about it and twiddle their thumbs.

 

[RSub]

Its quite evident... Canada was running a diploma mill scam or atleast abetting to it. "Others" "Unspecified" combined is a whooping 700K! Business Commerce and management at 750K? Sure as hell Canada was not training next gen MBA in such droves.

I often take Uber for work, and most of my drivers are immigrants, mainly Indian students. I've talked to many of them, and they all feel disappointed with Canada because it's not what they expected. They struggle to find good jobs, so they end up driving for Uber and doing food pickups. Surprisingly, most of these drivers have studied PGDM in Project Management after their engineering degrees. It's a shame they're not using their Engineering skills. They chose what they thought was the easiest way to move to Canada but now they are in a sorry state.

 

[Lord_Tony]

I often take Uber for work, and most of my drivers are immigrants, mainly Indian students. I've talked to many of them, and they all feel disappointed with Canada because it's not what they expected. They struggle to find good jobs, so they end up driving for Uber and doing food pickups. Surprisingly, most of these drivers have studied PGDM in Project Management after their engineering degrees. It's a shame they're not using their Engineering skills. They chose what they thought was the easiest way to move to Canada but now they are in a sorry state.

Driving Uber doesn't that demand a fairly new car? My educated guess is buying a 4-5-year-old car is not easily affordable to most students at least those from tier3 countries. It will lead to a 25-40k outright cash expense or a 1k a month mortgage not easy for low-income earners.
I apologize in advance for sounding stereotypical, most folks like me who came from tier3 countries had at a young age as these students, all of us had poor driving skills. I feel it is a very bad decision for young students with such poor driving skills to drive cabs.
The worst is vehicle insurance in Canada costs a fortune for most of us, even more for newcomers. This should be another deterrent for any young under 25 newcomer to drive cabs. Somehow in Toronto when I travel to the airport for work I always get African immigrants they are often even older than me when I speak with them. I learn most of these cab drivers have spouses in high-paying niche office jobs (oil and gas, mining..) or healthcare...and these guys drive Uber until they find something better. I am yet to meet young students through.

 

[Windsor37]

Canada's foreign student push 'mismatched' job market, data shows

I recently watched this in the news, and I find it ridiculous why would immigration look at what kind of "studies" students are taking? After all students are supposed to be just students right? They just want to learn something which may or may not be tied to Canada's labor market, it just so happens that Canada is offering a really good program.

The government on one hand, wanted foreign student's to come here without considering what "degrees" they're studying because those students are paying for the universities which allow Canadian locals (the voters) to get cheap education, relatively speaking. Heck, if Canada didn't have a housing crisis the government would probably still be handing out student visas like popcorn on a movie night. On the other hand, these students are "studying" to get a PR without even considering what they're studying in the first place, and without a clear understanding of what the Canadian job market is, or worse doesn't even have a full understanding on how a Canadian degree will help them get a PR. Which if you think about it, is essentially them trying to take advantage of the Student VISA/PGWP/Express Entry system, but failing miserably because they didn't think the whole thing through.

Personally I don't feel the government is beholden to these students at all; it was very clear that the government looked at the student's ability to pay, and is expecting them to fully foot the tuition without having to work, and with no expectation to work afterwards. Afterall, Canada took them as student's first and expected them to be just students. If they get PR or a good job in Canada afterwards, then it's a bonus -- not a reward for completing the degree.

 

[GandiBaat]

Driving Uber doesn't that demand a fairly new car? My educated guess is buying a 4-5-year-old car is not easily affordable to most students at least those from tier3 countries. It will lead to a 25-40k outright cash expense or a 1k a month mortgage not easy for low-income earners.
I apologize in advance for sounding stereotypical, most folks like me who came from tier3 countries had at a young age as these students, all of us had poor driving skills. I feel it is a very bad decision for young students with such poor driving skills to drive cabs.
The worst is vehicle insurance in Canada costs a fortune for most of us, even more for newcomers. This should be another deterrent for any young under 25 newcomer to drive cabs. Somehow in Toronto when I travel to the airport for work I always get African immigrants they are often even older than me when I speak with them. I learn most of these cab drivers have spouses in high-paying niche office jobs (oil and gas, mining..) or healthcare...and these guys drive Uber until they find something better. I am yet to meet young students through.

Good point!

I actually went and asked this to a taxi driver who came like 1 year back. He drives a Toyota. I was under impression that cars are worthless after 2 hundred thousand km on odometer. He told me that these Toyota run fine till 7 hundred thousand km or so. He bought one with 150 thousand km for 7000 dollars or so and thats how his taxi gig started.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

I recently watched this in the news, and I find it ridiculous why would immigration look at what kind of "studies" students are taking? After all students are supposed to be just students right? They just want to learn something which may or may not be tied to Canada's labor market, it just so happens that Canada is offering a really good program.

The government on one hand, wanted foreign student's to come here without considering what "degrees" they're studying because those students are paying for the universities which allow Canadian locals (the voters) to get cheap education, relatively speaking. Heck, if Canada didn't have a housing crisis the government would probably still be handing out student visas like popcorn on a movie night. On the other hand, these students are "studying" to get a PR without even considering what they're studying in the first place, and without a clear understanding of what the Canadian job market is, or worse doesn't even have a full understanding on how a Canadian degree will help them get a PR. Which if you think about it, is essentially them trying to take advantage of the Student VISA/PGWP/Express Entry system, but failing miserably because they didn't think the whole thing through.

Personally I don't feel the government is beholden to these students at all; it was very clear that the government looked at the student's ability to pay, and is expecting them to fully foot the tuition without having to work, and with no expectation to work afterwards. Afterall, Canada took them as student's first and expected them to be just students. If they get PR or a good job in Canada afterwards, then it's a bonus -- not a reward for completing the degree.

Very respectfully, if an immigration minister goes on record to say that they are "cheap labour", "lucrative assets", etc - it makes it empirical that Canada wanted them to be here for things beyond education. I don't see how Canadian govt took them as "students first" if the minister himself wasn't thinking of them as students. We need to discard this narrative now as it has failed the test of time.

 

[Lord_Tony]

Good point!

I actually went and asked this to a taxi driver who came like 1 year back. He drives a Toyota. I was under impression that cars are worthless after 2 hundred thousand km on odometer. He told me that these Toyota run fine till 7 hundred thousand km or so. He bought one with 150 thousand km for 7000 dollars or so and that's how his taxi gig started.

Your answer gives me a good pathway to my woes about buying a large car without burning 70k odd which has kept me shying from stepping into buying a car before I close a house.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Your answer gives me a good pathway to my woes about buying a large car without burning 70k odd which has kept me shying from stepping into buying a car before I close a house.

Buying a car after buying a house is a good idea in general. Your mortgage will be impacted by your car's loan. IIRC, the car's monthly loan amount will be deducted from your income to decide what you can afford in terms of mortgage.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Very respectfully, if an immigration minister goes on record to say that they are "cheap labour", "lucrative assets", etc - it makes it empirical that Canada wanted them to be here for things beyond education. I don't see how Canadian govt took them as "students first" if the minister himself wasn't thinking of them as students. We need to discard this narrative now as it has failed the test of time.

Taking this conversation a bit further from old notes:

>But in addition to that, I've been very clear to say not only do we want more international students. When I travel around the world, I say that we want as many of you to stay beyond your studies, because these are young people who speak English or French or both and have studied in Canada. Why wouldn't we want these people to become our future citizens?

>And so we should do whatever it takes to incentivize them to consider Canada. And Bill C-6 is one of those incentives, because now, under Bill C-6, the time than an international student or worker spends in Canada before becoming a permanent resident is counted towards their citizenship residential requirements. So for example, up to one year. So if an international student studies in Canada for two years and then becomes a PR, he or she only has to wait two additional years to become a citizen because they get a one year time credit for the two years that they were in Canada before becoming PR.

Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/09/speaking_notes_forahmedhussenministerofimmigrationrefugeesandcit.html

There are many such notes and talks. Let's not fool ourselves with the current narrative.

 

[DesiPikachu]

Afterall, Canada took them as student's first and expected them to be just students.

If that is the expectation then why have there been schemes like TR to PR in the past? Why have post-study work permits been extended in the past? Why were they allowed to work full time? Why are there so many PNP programs that have separate much-easier pathways for students who have graduated from institutions in that province?

Look at the USA in comparison. Beyond a 12 month post study work visa/permit (24 months for STEM grads), they give zero preferential treatment to international students.

 

[Windsor37]

Taking this conversation a bit further from old notes:

>But in addition to that, I've been very clear to say not only do we want more international students. When I travel around the world, I say that we want as many of you to stay beyond your studies, because these are young people who speak English or French or both and have studied in Canada. Why wouldn't we want these people to become our future citizens?

>And so we should do whatever it takes to incentivize them to consider Canada. And Bill C-6 is one of those incentives, because now, under Bill C-6, the time than an international student or worker spends in Canada before becoming a permanent resident is counted towards their citizenship residential requirements. So for example, up to one year. So if an international student studies in Canada for two years and then becomes a PR, he or she only has to wait two additional years to become a citizen because they get a one year time credit for the two years that they were in Canada before becoming PR.

Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/09/speaking_notes_forahmedhussenministerofimmigrationrefugeesandcit.html

There are many such notes and talks. Let's not fool ourselves with the current narrative.

I think what I said was taken a bit out of context. Canada can say one thing like the link that you posted, but totally do something different like this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/study-permit/eligibility.html

One of the eligibility requirements is : prove to an officer that you will leave Canada when your study permit expires

What am I getting at? is that Canada despite of all these TR to PR statements, bonus points at express entry, LAWFULLY requires an aspiring international student to leave Canada once the study permit expires. Which explicitly says that an international student is recognized as a student first. I mean, if Canada expects the student to stay after graduation then why go out of your way to prove to the officer that you'll leave when the student permit expires; it's a waste of time. Now if something changed like the student managed to stay in Canada due to a PNP, or getting enough points, or they got a good job in Canada, then good for them and Canada has legal mechanism to allow them to stay, but there's no promise as in there's no legally binding document in the student permit that if you graduate from that program, then you'll get a good-paying job, or you'll get a PR and that you can hold the government liable for something that didn't go your way.

So why are they making these kinds of statements? For the Canadians, if they put it bluntly that they're exploiting international students do you think Canadians will vote them in power? of course not. Why do they keep handing out student visas? so international students can pay for the local Canadian tuition. Why are they allowing part-time jobs? so these students can fill the roles that Canadians don't want to, but not allowing full-time so that these students won't be allowed to compete with the local Canadians.

Now if an international student fall for these schemes and pay a through a nose, and not get a PR or a good paying job after graduating, is the government liable? ethically maybe, but legally? no. Why? check the fine print on the study permit. And what can the student do about it? nothing really, he can't even vote them out.

As for Bill C-6, it was passed by Liberals right?

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/

I mean, I don't want to play devil's advocate. I'm sure the Liberals wholeheartedly passed this bill, because of the inclusivity that the Canadian culture and ideals have right? And not some subtle way of securing a long-term majority.

If that is the expectation then why have there been schemes like TR to PR in the past? Why have post-study work permits been extended in the past? Why were they allowed to work full time? Why are there so many PNP programs that have separate much-easier pathways for students who have graduated from institutions in that province?

Look at the USA in comparison. Beyond a 12 month post study work visa/permit (24 months for STEM grads), they give zero preferential treatment to international students.

Simple, for the benefit of Canadians, if there are some shady schemes of TR to PR in the past, then more students will come and they'll pay exorbitant tuition fees so that the government has to spend less in educating local Canadians. Why were they extended in the past? In 2021, there was a labor shortage of both high-skilled and low-skilled workers, how's an easy way to fix that? extended the work permits, and then frame it as a "strong immigration policy benefitting the Canadian economy" so you can get votes when the next election comes around. Why do PNP programs have a separate much-easier pathways for students, see first statement, more students in your province the less that the local government has to pay for the education of local Canadians -> the people who can vote them out.

The US doesn't have this kind of social contract to its' people like affordable education or free healthcare, or at least not in the same degree as Canada, so it can afford not to pay for citizen's education and they don't need international student's money as much as Canada needs them.

And to further prove a point, why are we even hearing this now? Like this has been going on even before the pandemic began. Well, during the pandemic, voting Canadians got a wake-up call that they needed more people in healthcare so now the government is doing this preferential treatment for healthcare workers to get a PR, the "categorized" Express Entry was born. Today, voting Canadians are getting pinched by the high rental prices, and what does the government do? Show it can do something, it may not be the best way to go about it, but it can at least frame it, as "oh these students are the ones causing these high rental prices so were curbing international students now". And If the non-voting international student get screwed after finishing the degree, the government would just say "too bad, so sad".

And as I said, I don't feel for these international students, because I find it funny that they're smart enough to finish a vocational degree, bachelor's degree, master's OR Ph.D in Canada, but didn't have the due diligence to read the fine print when they were applying for a student permit in the first place, and somehow think that the government would just magically hand them a good job or a PR after graduation, so much so that they didn't have the foresight to make a Plan B. Either they're naive or just plain gullible.

 

[GandiBaat]

Your answer gives me a good pathway to my woes about buying a large car without burning 70k odd which has kept me shying from stepping into buying a car before I close a house.

My general thinking has been : If you want to know which car you should get for your daily driver, look what cars in taxis are popular. Do check out with a mechanic as well. The place I live has a very decent bus connectivity so I never had to bother.