FSW WORLDWIDE

[GandiBaat]

It's a bit of both,

On one hand, if you look fundamentally at the "cost" of housing, how much of it goes to the cost of land, materials, and labor, and the rest to profit? given that the market is inflated due to the lack of supply, sellers have pretty much free rein to drive the cost up and maximize profits, and I don't blame them, I'd do the same - but at the same time for a buyer's perspective, most of my money goes not to the house, or the quality of home I'm getting, but to the seller's profits. Given that I don't see a house as an investment, but as a necessity. I find it difficult to justify paying extremely high profit margins.

On the other hand, yes it is a mismatch and I understand that by "lowering my standard" or desired "quality of life" I might be able to fit the budget, which is why I'm trying to do something about it.

Price of commodities is discovered by the market. Usually through demand and supply.

But if that's the case then the quality of life isn't the same. If you're willing to buy a townhouse or a condo temporarily while you save up for a detached house, why not rent a townhouse or condo instead?

So lets see...

On downpayment part?


EFT : Gain = Gain from downpayment in EFT - Capital Gain Tax
Condo : Gain = Gain from downpayment after sale

Typically Capital Gain Tax offset all the additional growth from EFT. Not to mention you are betting on one market against another. Mostly housing market for all types of houses go in sync, but not always with equity market.

On monthly payment?

You spend 3000 in rent. Thats all gone. You invest remaining (from after tax income of 7000) 4000 in EFT (say). When you cash out EFT to buy house, you also pay capital gain tax on EFT too. Then you buy house.

So my total saving for downpayment is 4000 * months invested in my EFT + gain from EFT - capital gain tax on EFT.

You buy a condo. You spend 3500 on mortgage installment. You invest remaining 3500 whatever way you want to do, (say in EFT). You sell condo. Your gain from condo are : remaining principal - condo sale price - early loan closing penalty. If you were a bit crafty, you will try to give the closing date of sale on renewal date of your mortgage. This way you pay no penalty. If I am not too unlucky, I can make money over what I have put into the condo and much more. Best part? Any gains are completely tax free! Because it is my primary residence.

So my total saving = Net gain from selling my Condo + 3500 * months invested in my EFT + gain from EFT - capital gain tax on EFT.

Mostly Net gain from selling my Condo (even after interest and carrying cost) is more than after capital gain tax on 500 not invested in EFT.

 

[seadrag0n]

Buying a home in Canada is like living in a dystopian society.

 

[GandiBaat]

Buying a home in Canada is like living in a dystopian society.

Only if you do not have enough money. Ensure that you have enough money either by income or by existing wealth, and you will be fine. Also, only few cities have this massive cost issue. If you can avoid them while keeping your earning, you can escape this situation.

There are also some creative solutions to this problem as well.

 

[seadrag0n]

Only if you do not have enough money. Ensure that you have enough money either by income or by existing wealth, and you will be fine. Also, only few cities have this massive cost issue. If you can avoid them while keeping your earning, you can escape this situation.

There are also some creative solutions to this problem as well.

How many new immigrants do you think are coming here with big bags of cash? I am sure 99% of the new immigrants will not have such a big amount of savings to dump into a home in Canada and take massive amount of debt on top of that. Like you said, saving for a 20% down payment even with high pay will take a lot of time and it is stupid to assume that every family will make 250k per year, single people can just piss off I guess!

Also, I read that homes in Calgary will cost a quite a bit in upkeep because it hails a lot in the winters and the roof gets damaged every year. There is also property tax and god knows what in expenses of owning a home, what a scam.

 

[Windsor37]

Price of commodities is discovered by the market. Usually through demand and supply.

Yes that's why I said "due to a lack of supply, sellers have pretty much free rein to drive the cost up and maximize profits". Now we can have another debate on why supply is low, but personally that's way too deep the rabbit hole.

So lets see...

On downpayment part?


EFT : Gain = Gain from downpayment in EFT - Capital Gain Tax
Condo : Gain = Gain from downpayment after sale

Typically Capital Gain Tax offset all the additional growth from EFT. Not to mention you are betting on one market against another. Mostly housing market for all types of houses go in sync, but not always with equity market.

On monthly payment?

You spend 3000 in rent. Thats all gone. You invest remaining (from after tax income of 7000) 4000 in EFT (say). When you cash out EFT to buy house, you also pay capital gain tax on EFT too. Then you buy house.

So my total saving for downpayment is 4000 * months invested in my EFT + gain from EFT - capital gain tax on EFT.

You buy a condo. You spend 3500 on mortgage installment. You invest remaining 3500 whatever way you want to do, (say in EFT). You sell condo. Your gain from condo are : remaining principal - condo sale price - early loan closing penalty. If you were a bit crafty, you will try to give the closing date of sale on renewal date of your mortgage. This way you pay no penalty. If I am not too unlucky, I can make money over what I have put into the condo and much more. Best part? Any gains are completely tax free! Because it is my primary residence.

So my total saving = Net gain from selling my Condo + 3500 * months invested in my EFT + gain from EFT - capital gain tax on EFT.

Mostly Net gain from selling my Condo (even after interest and carrying cost) is more than after capital gain tax on 500 not invested in EFT.

Wait what's EFT? Electronic Funds transfer like Interac? or do you mean ETF? the investment.

If you have a condo at 500K, and you made a 5% downpayment. This means you have a principal of 25K to begin with, + 3.5K / month on mortgage installment.

At a 5-year period:
Condo:
Assumes that property price increases by 7% per year, and there are no penalties on mortgage, no taxes when property is sold, no transfer tax when property is bought (meaning brand new property)

Net Expenses: 25K + 3.5K * 60 = 235K
Net Debt (after 5 years) = 436K
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = 500 * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5 = 701K
Total Value = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (235K + 436K) = 30K

Non-FHSA (if invested instead of getting a condo):
Capital: 25K + $500/month (delta from renting and mortgage payment 3.5K - 3K) anything above is similar between the two, meaning if you invested in something in condo version, you should be able to do the same in the investment version since renting is cheaper.
Net Asset Price (S&P 500, 10% return) [25K compounding + 500/month at annuity] : 25K * (1.1)^5 + (500 * 12) * ((1.1)^5 - 1) / 0.1 = 76.89 K
Capital Gains Tax (assuming 40% income tax rate) = (76.89K - 55K) * 0.5 * 0.4 = 6.6K
Total Value: 76.89K - 6.6K = 70.29K

FHSA:
Only looks at tax rebate from FHSA, assumes 0 tax exemption, and exempted income is not re-invested (because I'm too lazy to compute annualized tax exemption and gain, so let's look at worst case FHSA)
Tax Savings: 40K * 0.4 = 16K
Total Value = 70.29K + 16K = 86.29K

Condo has no FHSA version because you have a primary residence which disqualifies from FHSA.

So you should have 40K (non-FHSA)/ 56K (worst-case FHSA) MORE money to invest in a house in the end, if you opt to rent instead of flipping a condo, and you loose your FHSA benefits, which really saves a lot of money and I truly suggest getting one.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

125 or even 150k in GTA is a average pay in IT for a mid tier IT worker. I talk to people from other professions e.g. Bankers, non-IT white collar office goers most seem to make less than 70 k even in Greater Toronto. The most shocking I have seen is where my team is implementing Warehouse software for a F500 Manufacturer, the warehouse operators make like 50k generally, the senior most supervisor with 15+ years of experience makes 85k or so. These are all GTA pays, I was shocked to hear and learn of these jobs and people. I can't even imagine how they survive or pay their mortgages.

I can understand PRANIT01's dilemma and I was thinking last week where 'Windsor37' is getting his data from when he was talking about 500k Family income and 2.5M house prices.

Lol. Accountants with 5 years of experience easily cross six figures. Investment bankers in Toronto start off with six figures. The wages you quoted are entry level wages for people working in Finance or Accounting. I’m not sure where you got your figures from. Professions in Canada don’t pay as much as the US. That is true but they are nowhere as low as you put them to be. What other countries are you comparing Canada to?

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Lol. Accountants with 5 years of experience easily cross six figures. Investment bankers in Toronto start off with six figures. The wages you quoted are entry level wages for people working in Finance or Accounting. I’m not sure where you got your figures from. Professions in Canada don’t pay as much as the US. That is true but they are nowhere as low as you put them to be. What other countries are you comparing Canada to?

I think he loosely used the word "banker". I think the professions he meant were more like Bank Tellers who don't make much in comparison.

 

[GandiBaat]

Yes that's why I said "due to a lack of supply, sellers have pretty much free rein to drive the cost up and maximize profits". Now we can have another debate on why supply is low, but personally that's way too deep the rabbit hole.



Wait what's EFT? Electronic Funds transfer like Interac? or do you mean ETF? the investment.

If you have a condo at 500K, and you made a 5% downpayment. This means you have a principal of 25K to begin with, + 3.5K / month on mortgage installment.

At a 5-year period:
Condo:
Assumes that property price increases by 7% per year, and there are no penalties on mortgage, no taxes when property is sold, no transfer tax when property is bought (meaning brand new property)

Net Expenses: 25K + 3.5K * 60 = 235K
Net Debt (after 5 years) = 436K
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = 500 * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5 = 701K
Total Value = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (235K + 436K) = 30K

Non-FHSA (if invested instead of getting a condo):
Capital: 25K + $500/month (delta from renting and mortgage payment 3.5K - 3K) anything above is similar between the two, meaning if you invested in something in condo version, you should be able to do the same in the investment version since renting is cheaper.
Net Asset Price (S&P 500, 10% return) [25K compounding + 500/month at annuity] : 25K * (1.1)^5 + (500 * 12) * ((1.1)^5 - 1) / 0.1 = 76.89 K
Capital Gains Tax (assuming 40% income tax rate) = (76.89K - 55K) * 0.5 * 0.4 = 6.6K
Total Value: 76.89K - 6.6K = 70.29K

FHSA:
Only looks at tax rebate from FHSA, assumes 0 tax exemption, and exempted income is not re-invested (because I'm too lazy to compute annualized tax exemption and gain, so let's look at worst case FHSA)
Tax Savings: 40K * 0.4 = 16K
Total Value = 70.29K + 16K = 86.29K

Condo has no FHSA version because you have a primary residence which disqualifies from FHSA.

So you should have 40K (non-FHSA)/ 56K (worst-case FHSA) MORE money to invest in a house in the end, if you opt to rent instead of flipping a condo, and you loose your FHSA benefits, which really saves a lot of money and I truly suggest getting one.

Just one issue in your calculation. For a 500K condo, 25K downpayment (ie mortgage of 475K), the monthly installment comes out at 2869 (at 5.39% mortgage product available in almost all of the banks / credit union. I am using here vancity's calculator because that is what I am familiar with) for a 25 years ( Mortgage remaining 423K at the end of 5 year term).

So, redoing your calculation :

Net Expenses: 25K + 2.87K * 60 = 197K
Net Debt (after 5 years) = 422K
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = 500 * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5 = 701K
Total Value = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (197K + 422K) = 82K

---------

Now, with all other options, you have actually a NEGATIVE cashflow from savings if you are assuming a rent of 3K over a mortgage payment of just 2.87K. that is you are paying MORE for your shelter.

so, for 25K invested in S&P, you get

25K*(1.1)^5 = 40.26 K

And you lost on rental, 131 dollars per month = 131 * 60 = 7860.
So your total amount at 5 years is 40.26 - 7.86 = 33K

I will assume you pay no capital gain tax too due to FHSA.

--------
I did not include FHSA because for the amounts involved mostly for down payment of 20% (which is what I feel more comfortable with), I felt FHSA is just peanuts of saving.

At a cap of 40K, in over all picture it will not amount much, especially if you are trying to save for a house.

And yes, I meant Exchange Traded Funds. ETF, EFT was a typo.

 

[GandiBaat]

How many new immigrants do you think are coming here with big bags of cash? I am sure 99% of the new immigrants will not have such a big amount of savings to dump into a home in Canada and take massive amount of debt on top of that. Like you said, saving for a 20% down payment even with high pay will take a lot of time and it is stupid to assume that every family will make 250k per year, single people can just piss off I guess!

Canada will never say it officially, but what do you think happens with Indian students coming here, who are short on real cash? Most of places in BC and Ontario are expensive. The only way around is to have a comfortable income or have a bag of cash.

 

[Windsor37]

Just one issue in your calculation. For a 500K condo, 25K downpayment (ie mortgage of 475K), the monthly installment comes out at 2869 (at 5.39% mortgage product available in almost all of the banks / credit union. I am using here vancity's calculator because that is what I am familiar with) for a 25 years ( Mortgage remaining 423K at the end of 5 year term).

So, redoing your calculation :

Net Expenses: 25K + 2.87K * 60 = 197K
Net Debt (after 5 years) = 422K
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = 500 * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5 = 701K
Total Value = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (197K + 422K) = 82K

---------

Now, with all other options, you have actually a NEGATIVE cashflow from savings if you are assuming a rent of 3K over a mortgage payment of just 2.87K. that is you are paying MORE for your shelter.

so, for 25K invested in S&P, you get

25K*(1.1)^5 = 40.26 K

And you lost on rental, 131 dollars per month = 131 * 60 = 7860.
So your total amount at 5 years is 40.26 - 7.86 = 33K

I will assume you pay no capital gain tax too due to FHSA.

--------
I did not include FHSA because for the amounts involved mostly for down payment of 20% (which is what I feel more comfortable with), I felt FHSA is just peanuts of saving.

At a cap of 40K, in over all picture it will not amount much, especially if you are trying to save for a house.

And yes, I meant Exchange Traded Funds. ETF, EFT was a typo.

No, because you're not exempted from paying property taxes, and you're required to avail CHMC insurance since your downpayment is only 5% otherwise the bank won't approve your loan. I thought at 3.5K you're already counting both of them, but here goes.

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/home-buying/calculators/mortgage-calculator/mortgage-calculator-result?mc_PurchasePrice=$500,000&mc_DownPayment=$25,000&mc_AmortizationPeriod=25&mc_Interest=5.69&mc_Frequency=1

total price of mortgage with insurance: $3,070.19 / month
property taxes: $1,390 / year[down town vancouver @ 500K property price] = 115.8 / month
average house insurance: $300 / year = $25 / month

Total monthly mortgage cost = $3,210

Net Expenses: 25K + 3.21K * 60 = 218K
Net Debt: 444.58 K
Asset FMV = 701K
Total Value: 38.42K

By the way Vancouver raised property taxes by 7.5% so this reflects 2023 property tax, and I did not account for property value inflation for tax evaluation purposes.

Non-FHSA (if invested instead of getting a condo):
Capital: 25K + $210/month
Net Asset Price (S&P 500, 10% return) [25K compounding + 210/month at annuity] : 25K * (1.1)^5 + (210* 12) * ((1.1)^5 - 1) / 0.1 = 55.6K
Capital Gains Tax (assuming 40% income tax rate) = (55.6 - 37.6) * 0.5 * 0.4 = 3.6K
Total Value: 55.6K - 3.6K = 52K

FHSA:
Only looks at tax rebate from FHSA, assumes 0 tax exemption, and exempted income is not re-invested (because I'm too lazy to compute annualized tax exemption and gain, so let's look at worst case FHSA)
Tax Savings: 40K * 0.4 = 16K
Total Value = 52K + 16K = 68K

 

[GandiBaat]

No, because you're not exempted from paying property taxes, and you're required to avail CHMC insurance since your downpayment is only 5% otherwise the bank won't approve your loan. I thought at 3.5K you're already counting both of them, but here goes.

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/home-buying/calculators/mortgage-calculator/mortgage-calculator-result?mc_PurchasePrice=$500,000&mc_DownPayment=$25,000&mc_AmortizationPeriod=25&mc_Interest=5.69&mc_Frequency=1

total price of mortgage with insurance: $3,070.19 / month
property taxes: $1,390 / year[down town vancouver @ 500K property price] = 115.8 / month
average house insurance: $300 / year = $25 / month

Total monthly mortgage cost = $3,210

Net Expenses: 25K + 3.21K * 60 = 218K
Net Debt: 444.58 K
Asset FMV = 701K
Total Value: 38.42K

By the way Vancouver raised property taxes by 7.5% so this reflects 2023 property tax, and I did not account for property value inflation for tax evaluation purposes.

Non-FHSA (if invested instead of getting a condo):
Capital: 25K + $210/month
Net Asset Price (S&P 500, 10% return) [25K compounding + 210/month at annuity] : 25K * (1.1)^5 + (210* 12) * ((1.1)^5 - 1) / 0.1 = 55.6K
Capital Gains Tax (assuming 40% income tax rate) = (55.6 - 37.6) * 0.5 * 0.4 = 3.6K
Total Value: 55.6K - 3.6K = 52K

FHSA:
Only looks at tax rebate from FHSA, assumes 0 tax exemption, and exempted income is not re-invested (because I'm too lazy to compute annualized tax exemption and gain, so let's look at worst case FHSA)
Tax Savings: 40K * 0.4 = 16K
Total Value = 52K + 16K = 68K

One more mistake. You are comparing Gains in House vs Total Value in S&P investment.

For Condo you are using this formula, right?

Net Expenses = Downpayment + Mortgage Monthly * 60 + yearly expense in taxes and insurance
Net Debt (after 5 years)
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = Condo Value * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5
Total Value = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt)

The above is NOT Total Value at the end of 5 years, BUT GAIN on value.

The Total Value will be Asset FMV - Net Debt. That is the Amount you will get when you sell the house.


You are comparing it with Total Value of investment in S&P @ 10% return:
Since that is compounding at 10%, you used AMOUNT formula (for compounding and annuity).

So lets do the calculation again, with the scenario I had in my mind when I started.

Lets calculate buying a Condo (@500K) with two scenarios :

1. 20% Downpayment (the scenario that I assumed in my first post)
2. 5% Downpayment (the scenario that you used)

1. 20% Downpayment (no insurance required)
Mortgage Rate : 5.39%

Calculator Link : https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/home-buying/calculators/mortgage-calculator/mortgage-calculator-result?mc_PurchasePrice=$500,000&mc_DownPayment=$100,000&mc_AmortizationPeriod=25&mc_Interest=5.39&mc_Frequency=1

Mortgage Payment per Month : 2416

Property taxes: These are on assessment value and NOT on actual prices. Typically, for Vancouver sales price is 8-10% more of assessment value. Anyhoo lets take your figures. $1,390 / year[down town vancouver @ 500K property assessment price] = 115.8 / month

Average condo insurance: $300 / year = $25 / month (I am discounting this because tenants also typically take a $25 tenant insurance as well to cover liability and personal belonging loss in things like fire damage or flooding. When I came in vancouver in 2017 I also took one at 30$ per month.)

Total Monthly Expense : 2416 + 115.8 = 2531.8

Net Expenses: 100K + 2.532K * 60 = 252K
Net Debt (after 5 years) = 358K
Asset FMV (7% compounded rate) = 500 * (1 + 0.07) ^ 5 = 701K

Total Value NET GAIN = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (252K + 358K) = 91K
Total Amount (or house equity) you will get after selling the house = Asset FMV - Net Debt = 701K - 358K = 343K

2. 5% Downpayment (the scenario that you used)

(Here I am using 5.39 %, which the best mortgage available right now.)

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/consumers/home-buying/calculators/mortgage-calculator/mortgage-calculator-result?mc_PurchasePrice=$500,000&mc_DownPayment=$25,000&mc_AmortizationPeriod=25&mc_Interest=5.39&mc_Frequency=1

total price of mortgage with insurance: $2984 / month
property taxes: $1,390 / year[down town vancouver @ 500K property price] = 115.8 / month (rounded to 116 / month)
Average condo insurance: $300 / year = $25 / month (I am discounting this because tenants also typically take a $25 tenant insurance as well to cover liability and personal belonging loss in things like fire damage or flooding. When I came in vancouver in 2017 I also took one at 30$ per month.)

Total monthly mortgage cost + property tax = $3100

Net Expenses: 25K + 3.1K * 60 = 211K
Net Debt: 442.45 K
Asset FMV = 701K
Total Value NET GAIN = Asset FMV - (Net Expenses + Net Debt) = 701K - (442.45K + 211K) = 48K
Total Amount (or house equity) you will get after selling the house = Asset FMV - Net Debt = 701K - 442.45K = 259K

Now Comparing with your S&P ones (for 5% down payment ) :
Capital: 25K + $100/month

Annuity Calculator : https://www.calculator.net/annuity-calculator.html?cstartingprinciple=0&cannualaddition=0&cmonthlyaddition=100&cadditionat1=end&cinterestrate=10&cyears=5&printit=0&x=Calculate#annuity-result

Amount = Net Asset Price (S&P 500, 10% return) [25K compounding + 100/month at annuity] : 25K * (1.1)^5 + (100* 12) * ((1.1)^5 - 1) / 0.1 = 40K + 7.7K = 47.7K
Gain over Downpayment = 47.7 - 25 = 22.7K

I will not even talk about capital gain tax here now.

Now Comparing with your S&P ones (for 20% down payment ) :
Capital: 100K
Additional you will be paying to rental: 400 dollars each month

Amount = 100*(1.1)^5 = 161K
Extra Expenses per month in rental = 400*60 = 24000 (for simplicity)

Total Amount = 137K
Gain over Downpayment : 37K

 

[Lord_Tony]

I think he loosely used the word "banker". I think the professions he meant were more like Bank Tellers who don't make much in comparison.

Yes, I was not referring to Investment bankers who have the cream of wealth making after the film stars, will be making millions. I meant the Bank employees who work in the local Bank Branches in most suburbs helping us open accounts loans, and similar stuff, etc.. I think they are called personal bankers or advisors. That job I hear is often filled with immigrants, one of my friend's wife from Singapore recently came and took such a job. She tells us these roles are often young local folks in their mid to late 20s or immigrants. It is a physically and mentally draining job and pay doesn't match the stress they face.

The Tellers or the ones who handle the cash counters supposedly only make basic low wages as much as the lambdas in McD Timmies etc.., however, due to regulations Banks don't take folks on WPs hence often part-time local college kids do that job. One of the boss's daughters does that job apart from her post-graduate degree nd gets some 20$ an hour daily wages. If I total that it is less than 30k a year including OT.

 

[Lord_Tony]

Lol. Accountants with 5 years of experience easily cross six figures. Investment bankers in Toronto start off with six figures. The wages you quoted are entry level wages for people working in Finance or Accounting. I’m not sure where you got your figures from. Professions in Canada don’t pay as much as the US. That is true but they are nowhere as low as you put them to be. What other countries are you comparing Canada to?

Maybe the bulk of the qualified CPAs with the right skills and aptitude to make the money you mention, but most run-of-mill accountants make much less, I have been involved in a lot of recruitment for my organization and customers alike when we implement accounting systems. The wages are much less I have used websites like these to understand statistics https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/wagereport/location/on usually.

I do not disagree with you a lot of other countries are poor in wages also but the real-estate and other Cost of living is not as bad as Toronto or Vancouver, probably Sydney - Australia, NY - USA, and Bay Area - USA are in that range.

No, I was not referring to Investment Bankers, they are like film stars who make a lot.

 

[Windsor37]

One more mistake. You are comparing Gains in House vs Total Value in S&P investment.

Good point, I guess in some cases you could get better returns in flipping. Although I think it might still vary from case to case, for example my rent is below $2000, since I was able to land in Vancouver before the rental prices went insane. So taking up a mortgage would have significantly strained my investment money; and I think there are HOA fees which are not as visible but mandatory, at least that's what I heard from one of my office mates who are in the rental business. I might have to dig deeper on this.

 

[GandiBaat]

Good point, I guess in some cases you could get better returns in flipping. Although I think it might still vary from case to case, for example my rent is below $2000, since I was able to land in Vancouver before the rental prices went insane. So taking up a mortgage would have significantly strained my investment money; and I think there are HOA fees which are not as visible but mandatory, at least that's what I heard from one of my office mates who are in the rental business. I might have to dig deeper on this.

HoA fee or maintenance vary from strata to strata. Many Duplex do not have them but they get the strata insurance directly (I do this, mine is shared with my duplex partner). Needless to say, interest rates have peaked. If anything, they will go down a bit from here. That will make flipping even more attractive than renting. A 0.45 drop in interest rate in this case will be drop monthly by 100 dollars at 400K mortgage.

Thing with renting is that, you may also get renovicted for higher rental. For vancouver this is not unheard of. Some of the more crafty ones --specially in surrey-- further use the pretense of giving condo to their "family members" who are just another punjabi family. And given RTB is so backlogged that it is not even funny, you will end up with more trouble than worth it.