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[Hopeful007]

I personally can and have lived in a nation that has Hindu nationalism. I mean my ancestors left India to then (east) Pakistan during partition trusting Jinnah and had to escape that during 71. We arrived as refugees in India. Even in Modi my hope was that being a strong leader he will unite the fractured Hindu populace into a strong mandate and being a business first PM he will push for economic and legal reforms. He has to a non-insignificant extant.

But the amount of polarization and sheer hate that has come out of this process and from him and his own leaders is simply too toxic. Hindu-Nationalism in India has now become a literal synonym for anti-Muslim, anti-Sikh and anti-Christian movement. This was not necessary. This is just stupid. You can have a nation that is based on superiority of one faith and yet gives a tolerant space for other faiths to live peacefully. Nominally, many gulf nations are now Islamic nations but they do not practice anti-other-religion policies.

If he was a nationalist strong man, it would have been fine and perfect too. He and his party is more like "anti-others" first kind of ideology these days.

I guess it's kind of normal for some politicians or parties to create an enemy to keep themselves in power. Putin, Xi, all dictators do this, they make their people hate Americans, hate Europe etc. It's rare to have a nationalist who doesn't hate everyone I think. It's just too easy not to use it I guess.
Gulf countries are natural dictatorships and rich, no need for them to have enemies politically.

 

[Windsor37]

You need these strong leaders and Fanatics mans, may be the Rodrigo Duterte effect on my side. but without these strongmen and their fanatic followers nothing will get done e.g. look at Canada and JT, USA and Biden I can go on...

LOL, not Duterte please no, Trump looks more reasonable compared to him, he maybe fair in local policies but he's absolute garbage in foreign relations especially during the POGO era where he virtually gave the Chinese free working VISAs, they caused Philippine property and rental prices to go sky high and out of reach for most Filipinos (I know I was there, and it was so hard to find a place). If there was one thing that COVID done good to the PH, is that it got rid of these Chinese POGOs, and kept them out. Duterte sucked up to Xi so bad and in the end, the Philippines got nothing out of it.

 

[GandiBaat]

Pass this on to chootiyum-sulphates (CH2 reddit). They have been barking the wrong tree this whole time. Australia got Australian inhabitants, America got Americans and it seems Canada got some CH2s.

 

[ivicts]

btw @GandiBaat why did you let go of your Australian PR for Canada? I thought some people said that Australia is better compared to Canada.

 

[GandiBaat]

btw @GandiBaat why did you let go of your Australian PR for Canada? I thought some people said that Australia is better compared to Canada.

You see, for Software engineering, being on west coast I get a lot of opportunities as I am in same timezone as Seattle, SF etc.

Also there was another simple reason: I and my close friend (who is a manager and also had Aus PR) we both could not get a job together in same team in australia. I got the job but he could not, we had just some weeks for internal job search from india. Here in Canada, we both got the job together and later moved in same team. It helps me because that way I know what my manager says behind my back in meetings. So Canada, is the place we all went.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Pass this on to chootiyum-sulphates (CH2 reddit). They have been barking the wrong tree this whole time. Australia got Australian inhabitants, America got Americans and it seems Canada got some CH2s.

My only question to PP would be if he can prove there's an actual red tape as that's being challenged by JT's team.

r/CH2 is just a bunch of losers with mediocre jobs and no life. They think everything bad in their life is happening either because of Indians or international students. The later does impact housing costs a bit, but blaming them for everything is just immature. Since they are too much of a coward and can't hold greedy Canadians owning majority of the real estate or even their own govt accountable, they just hate the easy to target groups. Most Canadians don't share the same views as r/CH2 tbh. They(Canadians minus r/CH2) understand that were are all in this because of the govt's mess.

So far, despite all the dumb negativity and hate, we should look at stats from Canadian govt on how well we(PRs) did in 2022: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/express-entry-publications/summary-2022.html At the end, price sensitivity isn't everything. By their own account(Canadian govt), we outperform most Canadians economically.

If they continue to hate based on pseudo-standards that shouldn't matter to them(clothing, smelly, accent, color, cooking, etc), good immigrants will leave as we have options. Bad immigrants will stay. They will exactly be left with the ones they hate the most and the ones that are going to really bother them. That's why blanket hate is a very very dumb idea. Reality is they(r/CH2) like capitalism when it favours them, but they don't like it when it hurts. They simply haven't learned anything yet.

 

[GandiBaat]

My only question to PP would be if he can prove there's an actual red tape as that's being challenged by JT's team.

There is. A massive amount of red tape. I have seen it first hand. I give you an example. There are two municipalities in Greater Victoria, Oak Bay and City of Langford. Oak Bay of them is very affluent. Other one is working class. Oak bay has a massive sized funds in its municipal corp. Langford has moderate. It takes Oak Bay upto multiple years to issue a building permit to sometimes add a simple new bathroom. Doing a rezoning and sub division of a large lot of land is simply too long and too expensive. A sub division can costs upwards of 200-300K. Can take years at times. Langford does it really fast and pretty inexpensive. Langford issues building permits in days not months/years. Langford always has a steady supply of housing and has been a growing city of young families. Oak Bay is just old dying white folks.

 

[Hopeful007]

My only question to PP would be if he can prove there's an actual red tape as that's being challenged by JT's team.

r/CH2 is just a bunch of losers with mediocre jobs and no life. They think everything bad in their life is happening either because of Indians or international students. The later does impact housing costs a bit, but blaming them for everything is just immature. Since they are too much of a coward and can't hold greedy Canadians owning majority of the real estate or even their own govt accountable, they just hate the easy to target groups. Most Canadians don't share the same views as r/CH2 tbh. They(Canadians minus r/CH2) understand that were are all in this because of the govt's mess.

So far, despite all the dumb negativity and hate, we should look at stats from Canadian govt on how well we(PRs) did in 2022: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/express-entry-publications/summary-2022.html At the end, price sensitivity isn't everything. By their own account(Canadian govt), we outperform most Canadians economically.

If they continue to hate based on pseudo-standards that shouldn't matter to them(clothing, smelly, accent, color, cooking, etc), good immigrants will leave as we have options. Bad immigrants will stay. They will exactly be left with the ones they hate the most and the ones that are going to really bother them. That's why blanket hate is a very very dumb idea. Reality is they(r/CH2) like capitalism when it favours them, but they don't like it when it hurts. They simply haven't learned anything yet.

I kind of agree with what you say.
However, yes they are supposed to hold the government accountable instead of blaming immigrants who came because of government's policies. But, this government is tone-deaf and not listening to anyone. I mean at this point I am sure Trudeau doesn't give a sh*t about anyone except staying in power and doesn't even bother listening, his own MPs are pissed off with him. So, when some members of the society, such as CH2, can't be heard by the government, they can cause a lot of trouble for the society, creating hate, violence, theft and so on, making the government to look really bad and forcing them to really get off their butt and do smth. Look how much polls have made them sing differently in 2-3 months. If the kid doesn't cry, they won't get food.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

My understanding is even as a economy if India becomes the third or second largest global GDP in 2050 AD or whenever their time comes. Only the top 10% of their population will supposedly benefit. The rich become richer and the poor and folks who live within a dollar a day expenses, might still keep struggling with creeping cost of living and other needs etc in 2050. The distribution of wealth in India is right now very poor and they will find that scenario challenging, wont become any better unless they get a dictator or have a revolution like China. The curse of being a democracy, needs collective decision making.

This. There’s no way India can ever become a developed country unless the fundamentals behind its economy change. The biggest difference between a country like the US and India, is the strength of its research base. India’s expenditure on R & D and education is extremely poor compared to the US and other developed countries. In fact, I believe that ISRO is probably one of the few organisations that is adequately funded in India. Establishing ISRO is one of the best decisions India has ever made. The biggest reason the US was able to become an economic superpower is because it’s able to commercialise its cutting edge research and take advantage of its immense internal market. India is not even comparable to China in that regard because China has some great institutions. As of now, India runs like a branch plant economy for American and European MNCs. They view us Indians as cheap labour. The upside of this is that it creates jobs but the downside is that it’s not a sustainable way of running an economy. Those MNCs are only looking to cut costs and if they find a cheaper alternative to India, they would close up shop immediately. To bring about change and create well paying jobs, Indian businesses must be cutting edge and competitive globally and the best minds must stay back in India. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

My only question to PP would be if he can prove there's an actual red tape as that's being challenged by JT's team.

r/CH2 is just a bunch of losers with mediocre jobs and no life. They think everything bad in their life is happening either because of Indians or international students. The later does impact housing costs a bit, but blaming them for everything is just immature. Since they are too much of a coward and can't hold greedy Canadians owning majority of the real estate or even their own govt accountable, they just hate the easy to target groups. Most Canadians don't share the same views as r/CH2 tbh. They(Canadians minus r/CH2) understand that were are all in this because of the govt's mess.

So far, despite all the dumb negativity and hate, we should look at stats from Canadian govt on how well we(PRs) did in 2022: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/express-entry-publications/summary-2022.html At the end, price sensitivity isn't everything. By their own account(Canadian govt), we outperform most Canadians economically.

If they continue to hate based on pseudo-standards that shouldn't matter to them(clothing, smelly, accent, color, cooking, etc), good immigrants will leave as we have options. Bad immigrants will stay. They will exactly be left with the ones they hate the most and the ones that are going to really bother them. That's why blanket hate is a very very dumb idea. Reality is they(r/CH2) like capitalism when it favours them, but they don't like it when it hurts. They simply haven't learned anything yet.

It’s not immigration per se but the scale of immigration and the speed. Canada doesn’t have the capacity to accept 2.5% of its population every year. I’m pretty sure this screw up happened because the Canadian government underestimated the amount of temporary migrants and international students within Canada. They’re going to get destroyed in the following elections for the problems they caused. The sheer amount of these folks has exacerbated existing issues within Canada. No amount of building is going to solve the fact that Canada cannot accept these many people every yea without collapsing existing infrastructure and the entire social fabric of Canada. Housing is only one aspect. They also have to look at healthcare, schools, public transport etc. Mass immigration of this kind has never been successful in any country, why the hell would it be successful in Canada? The biggest examples are Germany and Sweden. Both those countries have publicly admitted that they screwed up really bad on immigration and are now trying to reverse course. As per the latest polls, Canadians are already against more immigration and if the federal government continues to ignore these sentiments, you’re going to see the PPC make gains in the following elections. I would hate for that to happen since they have some really nasty elements in the party.

 

[wonderbly]

btw @GandiBaat why did you let go of your Australian PR for Canada? I thought some people said that Australia is better compared to Canada.

You see, for Software engineering, being on west coast I get a lot of opportunities as I am in same timezone as Seattle, SF etc.

Also there was another simple reason: I and my close friend (who is a manager and also had Aus PR) we both could not get a job together in same team in australia. I got the job but he could not, we had just some weeks for internal job search from india. Here in Canada, we both got the job together and later moved in same team. It helps me because that way I know what my manager says behind my back in meetings. So Canada, is the place we all went.

He lying. His wife said " No way, Jose" .

 

[Psyoptica]

My only question to PP would be if he can prove there's an actual red tape as that's being challenged by JT's team.

r/CH2 is just a bunch of losers with mediocre jobs and no life. They think everything bad in their life is happening either because of Indians or international students. The later does impact housing costs a bit, but blaming them for everything is just immature. Since they are too much of a coward and can't hold greedy Canadians owning majority of the real estate or even their own govt accountable, they just hate the easy to target groups. Most Canadians don't share the same views as r/CH2 tbh. They(Canadians minus r/CH2) understand that were are all in this because of the govt's mess.

So far, despite all the dumb negativity and hate, we should look at stats from Canadian govt on how well we(PRs) did in 2022: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/express-entry-publications/summary-2022.html At the end, price sensitivity isn't everything. By their own account(Canadian govt), we outperform most Canadians economically.

If they continue to hate based on pseudo-standards that shouldn't matter to them(clothing, smelly, accent, color, cooking, etc), good immigrants will leave as we have options. Bad immigrants will stay. They will exactly be left with the ones they hate the most and the ones that are going to really bother them. That's why blanket hate is a very very dumb idea. Reality is they(r/CH2) like capitalism when it favours them, but they don't like it when it hurts. They simply haven't learned anything yet.

I'm not sure why people get so emotional over sentiments of some random chat forum on the internet. When people don't have their voices heard, they use different avenues to vent, CH2 being one of them.
Also with regards to majority Canadians not having an issue with immigration is false. CH2 maybe a bit xenophobic towards current generation of Indian migrants but you go to any platform, ask any Canadian, most do not support the existing immigration policy. Housing crisis has multiple contributing factors and immigration is most definitely is one of them. I know a lot of young Canadians born and raised here who's parents have contributed to the economy their whole life by paying taxes and these young folks are struggling to find a job due to the sheer number of immigrants (mostly Indians) lining up for entry level jobs. These guys are competing with hundreds and thousands of other immigrants in a country that is already stretched thin for it's resources and the government just keeps increasing the numbers. Indians are sometimes targeted also because the culture also has an indirect impact in exacerbating the issues with Canada. For instance most Indians want their parents, grand parents and extended families to move here with them who ultimately end up using Canadian social services without contributing much.
Why aren't there immigrant construction workers? If people wanna buy houses, there should be a small fraction of them who should be willing to build it as well. There are just not enough house builders and the infrastruction to support immigration is terrible.
I'm not against immigration as it does not impact me but I completely understand the sentiments from Canadian citizens shared online.

 

[GandiBaat]

He lying. His wife said " No way, Jose" .

LOL that was a reason too.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

This. There’s no way India can ever become a developed country unless the fundamentals behind its economy change. The biggest difference between a country like the US and India, is the strength of its research base. India’s expenditure on R & D and education is extremely poor compared to the US and other developed countries. In fact, I believe that ISRO is probably one of the few organisations that is adequately funded in India. Establishing ISRO is one of the best decisions India has ever made. The biggest reason the US was able to become an economic superpower is because it’s able to commercialise its cutting edge research and take advantage of its immense internal market. India is not even comparable to China in that regard because China has some great institutions. As of now, India runs like a branch plant economy for American and European MNCs. They view us Indians as cheap labour. The upside of this is that it creates jobs but the downside is that it’s not a sustainable way of running an economy. Those MNCs are only looking to cut costs and if they find a cheaper alternative to India, they would close up shop immediately. To bring about change and create well paying jobs, Indian businesses must be cutting edge and competitive globally and the best minds must stay back in India. Unfortunately, this is not the case.


It’s not immigration per se but the scale of immigration and the speed. Canada doesn’t have the capacity to accept 2.5% of its population every year. I’m pretty sure this screw up happened because the Canadian government underestimated the amount of temporary migrants and international students within Canada. They’re going to get destroyed in the following elections for the problems they caused. The sheer amount of these folks has exacerbated existing issues within Canada. No amount of building is going to solve the fact that Canada cannot accept these many people every yea without collapsing existing infrastructure and the entire social fabric of Canada. Housing is only one aspect. They also have to look at healthcare, schools, public transport etc. Mass immigration of this kind has never been successful in any country, why the hell would it be successful in Canada? The biggest examples are Germany and Sweden. Both those countries have publicly admitted that they screwed up really bad on immigration and are now trying to reverse course. As per the latest polls, Canadians are already against more immigration and if the federal government continues to ignore these sentiments, you’re going to see the PPC make gains in the following elections. I would hate for that to happen since they have some really nasty elements in the party.

Mass immigration has been successful in the long term though(Irish in US, Ukrainians in Canada, etc). Fixing things through mass immigration has a communication problem - Canadian govt has to say that it will take time and things will be a little difficult for a while.

I'm not sure why people get so emotional over sentiments of some random chat forum on the internet. When people don't have their voices heard, they use different avenues to vent, CH2 being one of them.
Also with regards to majority Canadians not having an issue with immigration is false. CH2 maybe a bit xenophobic towards current generation of Indian migrants but you go to any platform, ask any Canadian, most do not support the existing immigration policy. Housing crisis has multiple contributing factors and immigration is most definitely is one of them. I know a lot of young Canadians born and raised here who's parents have contributed to the economy their whole life by paying taxes and these young folks are struggling to find a job due to the sheer number of immigrants (mostly Indians) lining up for entry level jobs. These guys are competing with hundreds and thousands of other immigrants in a country that is already stretched thin for it's resources and the government just keeps increasing the numbers. Indians are sometimes targeted also because the culture also has an indirect impact in exacerbating the issues with Canada. For instance most Indians want their parents, grand parents and extended families to move here with them who ultimately end up using Canadian social services without contributing much.
Why aren't there immigrant construction workers? If people wanna buy houses, there should be a small fraction of them who should be willing to build it as well. There are just not enough house builders and the infrastruction to support immigration is terrible.
I'm not against immigration as it does not impact me but I completely understand the sentiments from Canadian citizens shared online.

I think the general consensus is that Canada brought in a lot of people and this isn't sustainable in the short term - I don't think any of us can debate that. But when they start bullying a grandma visiting her grand kids who made a very tiny mistake(unknowingly) of crossing the road when she wasn't supposed to(instead of helping her!!!) - something is wrong with them. No matter how much they are suffering, no reason to take photos and videos of an old grandma making mistakes(that any senior citizen can) to bully her online. This is an increasing trend that concerns people who are trying to see if they can call this country their forever home.

We all go through tough situations in life, we get salty, and we feel there's no escape - but mature people don't take it out on people who personally aren't responsible for anything. Just because someone is vulnerable, why shit on them? This will force more and more immigrants will be forced to live within their own communities as there's no point in facing unnecessary hate from a loser. And at this point in Canada, almost everyone knows that Canadian institutions and govt screwed them up - immigrants didn't do anything.

Fwiw, things are so so bad that even r/CH2 mods are done with this hate now and are actively restricting these hateful posts under a specific thread as even they have had enough.

I know it sucks for all of us, but this hate has no justification.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Mass immigration has been successful in the long term though(Irish in US, Ukrainians in Canada, etc). Fixing things through mass immigration has a communication problem - Canadian govt has to say that it will take time and things will be a little difficult for a while.



I think the general consensus is that Canada brought in a lot of people and this isn't sustainable in the short term - I don't think any of us can debate that. But when they start bullying a grandma visiting her grand kids who made a very tiny mistake(unknowingly) of crossing the road when she wasn't supposed to(instead of helping her!!!) - something is wrong with them. No matter how much they are suffering, no reason to take photos and videos of an old grandma making mistakes(that any senior citizen can) to bully her online. This is an increasing trend that concerns people who are trying to see if they can call this country their forever home.

We all go through tough situations in life, we get salty, and we feel there's no escape - but mature people don't take it out on people who personally aren't responsible for anything. Just because someone is vulnerable, why shit on them? This will force more and more immigrants will be forced to live within their own communities as there's no point in facing unnecessary hate from a loser. And at this point in Canada, almost everyone knows that Canadian institutions and govt screwed them up - immigrants didn't do anything.

Fwiw, things are so so bad that even r/CH2 mods are done with this hate now and are actively restricting these hateful posts under a specific thread as even they have had enough.

I know it sucks for all of us, but this hate has no justification.

When you are doing well or making enough, people don't care but when you are struggling to make ends meet or pay bills, people won't care about decency or political correctness. They will let their feelings out. They wont care about being mature or not when you don't have food on the table. We are heading towards a crisis and I don't see any solutions being implemented.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

When you are doing well or making enough, people don't care but when you are struggling to make ends meet or pay bills, people won't care about decency or political correctness. They will let their feelings out. They wont care about being mature or not when you don't have food on the table. We are heading towards a crisis and I don't see any solutions being implemented.

The last part about "I don't see any solutions being implemented" is right. I've not seen PP talk about caps or rightful levels of immigration. It is all talk about building more housing which sounds good on paper, but can easily fail during execution. So many people have faith that conservatives will put a hard stop to excessive immigration once they are in place - we will see in 2024 though.

About the rest, I don't know, but I think this "third world" behavior of cloaking bigotry under "I'm suffering" is a plain disgrace to a first world country. If things are hurting them so much, why not do the most basic thing that a first world democracy allows them to do - Protest! It does feel like they are simply born in a first world could but act very similarly to their "third world" counterparts. I guess it is what it is. Living in Canada for most immigrants of color would now require steering clear of these losers.