FSW WORLDWIDE

[Deleted member 1083629]

@GandiBaat @MajorGrom Interviewing candidates takes a lot of effort and they completed all the rounds pretty quickly too but then just ghosted, makes no sense to me and I am seeing some of these ads since June last year when I got my COPR.

Hmmm. So, when things like that happen it means you weren't the first choice. So, they waited on their preferred candidate to complete the interview (his last round could have been after yours), then tried to negotiate, then they failed. After that, they went to the second option, same story. After that, they reached out to you, you said sorry, got the job. They decided that it won't make sense to hire someone else and get back to ground zero.

 

[seadrag0n]

Hmmm. So, when things like that happen it means you weren't the first choice. So, they waited on their preferred candidate to complete the interview (his last round could have been after yours), then tried to negotiate, then they failed. After that, they went to the second option, same story. After that, they reached out to you, you said sorry, got the job. They decided that it won't make sense to hire someone else and get back to ground zero.

That makes sense. Also, notice period in Canada is just two weeks so people with jobs looking for a change could be giving interviews in multiple places and picking the best offer so maybe this also factored in. In my case, I was kind of desperate because I was jobless

 

[GandiBaat]

@GandiBaat @MajorGrom Interviewing candidates takes a lot of effort and they completed all the rounds pretty quickly too but then just ghosted, makes no sense to me and I am seeing some of these ads since June last year when I got my COPR.

So my employer has a hiring freeze. this happens too. You were selected but stuck in a hiring freeze. Sometimes, some companies hire for company and not role or team. So they ghost you if underlying team has its budget cut and they have "backfill" you. I interviewed with google some months back and they told me that even after selection it could be several months before they could match me with a team. while google is transparent, not everyone is.

 

[GandiBaat]

I mean that's kind of 1 time off thing. What happens on TTC, happens daily. I pretty much told my wife not take a TTC when she is alone; only Uber/Lyft. It's weird to admit but I felt safer in Moscow than I feel in Toronto.

I just read vice article on TTC. TTC lawyers outrightly says, "don't travel alone in TTC if you are a woman! you should know this and dont blame us if someone pushes you on the tracks". Damn!

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

So in less than a month from Landing here as a newcomer, I have gotten myself a job in my field (I work non-IT, non engineering procurement) to support my expenses during these cold winter months. And while I have rented out a room in someone's townhouse at the moment, I was happy to think about finally having a full time job and getting my own apartment... until I saw the rents. Turns out, I will be staying with roommates probably forever. This is insane, I knew it was bad but this is just insane and I am not even married yet!

I was doing some research on how to increase my income potential but inadvertently fell into the trap of watching and reading about how it is so bad for people who make the median yearly wage here, which is 50k pre taxes. It was quite a spiral and very difficult to not feel stressed out and sad. I also planned to sell off some property in India and invest in Canada but I have lost all confidence in this scam/bubble economy.
I came here with plans of starting and operating a small business mindset, but that is completely impossible in Toronto. I will be visiting London soon and I have a friend there who started his thing from scratch and is doing quite well there.. but he started in like 2019, what a time that was.

There is no way I will be able to start a family if I continue working in Procurement. I am 28 now and I feel lost, and the only way I see out is getting into IT. Not too late but still a massive hurdle. Any suggestions? Is Trades a better idea than IT? Is there anything that is non IT and also pays decently well if I make all the right moves and decisions career wise? Or should I stick to Procurement and get deeper specialization in that?
Forum members, chime in please.

Your income is pretty much poverty level in Toronto although I am not surprised. You probably got low-balled due to being an immigrant, these Toronto HR/recruiters are predatory.
The thing is with procurement jobs, a lot of superficial things matter, since it is a client/vendor facing role:
Your level of english
Your accent
Your culture (making smalltalk and knowing how business is done)
Your education (Canadian degree with help)
Procurement jobs can be lucrative, especially public procurement (just imagine the no. of public agencies that waste taxpayer dollars) but unlike tech where demand is high, it's more competitive and knowing how to network to get those desired jobs
Your work experience abroad will be written off instantaneously (maybe except WE with MNCs, which could help with that company here in Canada). They will always choose a bilingual Canadian professional over you for all those reasons. After that, an Anglo Canadian. If they can't find anyone else they'll hire a recent immigrant at sub-par pay.

 

[imransyed]

Your income is pretty much poverty level in Toronto although I am not surprised. You probably got low-balled due to being an immigrant, these Toronto HR/recruiters are predatory.
The thing is with procurement jobs, a lot of superficial things matter, since it is a client/vendor facing role:
Your level of english
Your accent
Your culture (making smalltalk and knowing how business is done)
Your education (Canadian degree with help)
Procurement jobs can be lucrative, especially public procurement (just imagine the no. of public agencies that waste taxpayer dollars) but unlike tech where demand is high, it's more competitive and knowing how to network to get those desired jobs
Your work experience abroad will be written off instantaneously (maybe except WE with MNCs, which could help with that company here in Canada). They will always choose a bilingual Canadian professional over you for all those reasons. After that, an Anglo Canadian. If they can't find anyone else they'll hire a recent immigrant at sub-par pay.

I absolutely agree with you that I am working for sub-par pay. This phenomenon was discussed some time back in this thread and Once I demand higher pay, a newer immigrant will take my place and I will be out.
Fortunately in my case, my previous work experience in Saudi Arabia actually worked wonders to get me this job. I applied directly and got the call, zero networking and during the face to face interview, I was answering all the questions they had without them even asking! It was an excellent interview, best one of my life so far.
But over the years I have really learned how to dress up my skills and past experience well to tell a story and cover up my educational/professional draw backs and that helped me a lot. Not lying, just presenting things in a better manner.
Public procurement requires expertise either in terms of education or experience, both of which I dont really have right now.

 

[imransyed]

May I suggest, sit and think about it. Think if this is something you will want to do, not just something you will need to do. If you are sure that either you want to do or need is so dire that there is no other way then take the difficult path. You will be starting from fairly low, a masters is not really going to fix your missing exposure or bachelor level training in basic CS. You will be committing to this career fully.

Now if you want to do it half and half kind of way, the issue I see is that you may be back to this question in few years again either with a stagnant career or you will be in the situation where your job is being eliminated due to automation and you will be again doing some other qualification to move in another role in the industry.

If you want to do it fully, you will need to build your base knowledge like any undergrad does. It can be through a full time qualification or through a bunch of projects. Issue with projects is that it does not cover the breadth of knowledge you need because you will learn what you need for project. I would have never done functional programming in 2004 if my language/computation course work did not make do it. A lot of progress in modern and industry useful languages that has happened in last 10-15 years find base in that concept and knowledge. Think modern Javascript (the so called "good parts"), functional extensions to Java and C# are all rooted in basics of functional programming that I learnt in 2004.

If you find committing to CS fully hard, it will only lead to frustration later. This industry is getting better at removing routine work faster than anything I have seen.

I am taking your advice man. I am gonna be sitting and having a long deliberation with myself about this.

@MajorGrom and @GandiBaat have already given their suggestions, and I know @wonderbly disagrees with me on this. But let me add something else to it. Maybe you really want to do a masters and have teh money to spend. You already said you have poor grades I believe. So you're not getting funded for your masters (not sure if that's even a thing in Canada, it is in the US: my masters was almost fully funded). If so, keep at it.

If you're instead doing a master's because you think it'll make it easier for you to get a job in your new field, you're probably wasting a lot of time and money to get there. Literally everything you need to know about comp sci and data science (two extremely popular and broad IT fields) is available online for free, or very cheap. You almost nailed it by saying the only way your degree helped is to get your first job. But remember the upfront cost of 75k-150k and 2 years to get that first job.

Instead, learn on your own for a year or so, and even if it takes you another year to get a job, you still saved all of your tuition money and still got the job anyway. Especially in IT, your degree typically doesn't matter at all beyond the ease in getting your first job. But you're paying in time and money for that ease.

You can even look into bootcamps. They are much much cheaper, more intensive, and a lot quicker. Here's a rough comparison:

Masters: 2 years + 100k = internship + first job. Let's say immediately after (but that's being very charitable. people still take several months to land fulltime positions after their degree if it's not in the same company as the internship).

Bootcamp: 6 months + 25k = first job in under 6 months.

So overall in this example, you save 75k and 1 whole year. Maybe this first job sucks and doesn't pay well. Guess what. You're still saving time and getting paid instead of paying and losing time. And by the time you would have graduated, you will probably be close to a promotion and get the same or more than you would out of university too..

IMO if you're looking to get into IT, a master's is almost never worth it. If you think you need the structure and accountabiilty, go for a bootcamp. and don't add it to your resume. Use what you learn there and network. I transitioned to IT from mechanical engineering by myself. It's not that hard to learn what you need to learn. Toss in a bit of luck through smart networking, and you render a master's completely useless.

Wow! that was a really detailed analysis. Honestly I dont know yet what I am going to be doing but I will try to stick to the pathway you have carved out here. Thank you for your detailed effort buddy.

Thats not a bad idea at all. Infact its very good. I will say leave IT and do a MBA or something if finances permit. Do your internship in GCC and get a job there. May be do a MBA part time while keeping your job? It will take longer but that way you will be spending time here as PR and that will count for citizenship.

Believe me you, I spent a good amount of time today thinking and weighing my options based on this reply. @cansha also mentions the same and this is the most logical way forward I think too.

I am going to sit and think about this for a couple days or weeks, once I have decided what to do, I will certainly update everybody here. Thank you everyone once again for your helpful and kind words.

 

[GandiBaat]

Wow! that was a really detailed analysis. Honestly I dont know yet what I am going to be doing but I will try to stick to the pathway you have carved out here. Thank you for your detailed effort buddy.

@mushymush does the best! though, remember, he assumed that you were a international student. As a PR your fee expenses will be significantly lower.

 

[imransyed]

@mushymush does the best! though, remember, he assumed that you were a international student. As a PR your fee expenses will be significantly lower.

Yes, I saw in the later posts.. but the path mushy laid out is still genius.

 

[Alysson]

For those of you living in Toronto, what the heck is going on with TTC??? I saw a woman getting stabbed in the face couple of days ago. Couple of hours ago, the train stopped and driver said that on the next stop, there is a guy with knife and the driver won't be stopping.

Is this a problem in your cities as well? Or is it just Toronto being Toronto?

Worse thing is, that it’s just random. You never find the justification for why these attacks are happening and it can be a group of teens or an older person. Just insane…

 

[Lixa]

Hi everyone! I received my COPR today!

FSW Outland

ITA - August 3, 2022
Submission - Sept 24, 2022
AOR - Sept 24, 2022
Medical pass - Nov 10,2022
BIL - Nov 10,2022
Biometrics linked - Nov 18, 2022
Passeport request - Jan 5, 2023
Copr - Jan 27, 2023

Just a quick question :

On the Copr it is written NOT VALID TO TRAVEL. Does it mean that I need an other document from them to land or just that it is no travel document and I still need my passport?

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

Worse thing is, that it’s just random. You never find the justification for why these attacks are happening and it can be a group of teens or an older person. Just insane…

Yup. I kind of understand the republican's point of view when they say guns are needed for self protection. I know it's not an answer as it results in more violence but this cannot last long. Right now, my wife and I are taking Uber. The next year, we might move to a different province all together.

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

I just read vice article on TTC. TTC lawyers outrightly says, "don't travel alone in TTC if you are a woman! you should know this and dont blame us if someone pushes you on the tracks". Damn!

Yup. It's getting really out of hand over here.

 

[AndyUK]

Hi everyone! I received my COPR today!

FSW Outland

ITA - August 3, 2022
Submission - Sept 24, 2022
AOR - Sept 24, 2022
Medical pass - Nov 10,2022
BIL - Nov 10,2022
Biometrics linked - Nov 18, 2022
Passeport request - Jan 5, 2023
Copr - Jan 27, 2023

Just a quick question :

On the Copr it is written NOT VALID TO TRAVEL. Does it mean that I need an other document from them to land or just that it is no travel document and I still need my passport?

I believe it just means that it's not a visa. So if you're from a country which requires a visa to travel to Canada, you still need a visa (which you would get with your COPR) and cannot just use COPR.

 

[cansha]

On the Copr it is written NOT VALID TO TRAVEL. Does it mean that I need an other document from them to land or just that it is no travel document and I still need my passport?

You always need passport even if you are Canadian citizen for international travel. This just means that you can't just show COPR to the airline and board a plane (or any other commercial way of travel). You will need an immigrant visa for first time to enter Canada and PR card on all subsequent travels to be able to board a plane to Canada.