FSW WORLDWIDE

[GandiBaat]

A personal update:

So I have thought long and hard about this and the posts of everyone with their suggestions. I have spent every waking moment trying to weigh my options and an MBA is the best/practical/logical way forward for me, given my circumstances.

A general question to all the well read members here: Is an MBA from a not so well known university like York, Ottawa, etc., valuable? I mean i know it won't be the same as queen's or uft or mcgill or even HEC?

Why I ask this is coz given my professional and educational history, it seems extremely difficult to a level of impossibility for me to get into the top schools, despite getting a decently good GMAT score also. Low GPA is not the problem, the mediocre work/professional experience is a MAJOR hurdle which adcoms really give attention to incase gpa is low.

A different option I am weighing is, get a Masters degree in Econ/Fin, ace the GPA, get a good job and then some years later, go for an MBA. Very long and I would like to not do this but it would make a strong application IMO.

Now first things first. I am a tech guy so take my word with a metric tonne of salt. I have NOT treaded this path. There are a lot of variables that make a MBA fit for you or unfit for you BUT, one thing that a lot of folks miss is this: TIME. Here is how:

1. IF you are early in your career, an MBA from a non premium place, IMHO is not really a bad choice. You can still grow take a path and longer you remain in a career, more distant past your degree becomes. Its still there but your experience becomes the key. MBA just gets your feet in the door. Of course unless you have ambition of doing something very specialized. There are PE funds whose MDs almost always come from Harvard.

2. IF you are in late career, go with a MBA that has the best alumni support and mostly these are more premium MBA schools. You do not have as many chances to make mistakes and you will prefer to start from more senior positions. This is especially true if you are adjusting or shifting your career trajectory. NOT doing MBA is okay rather than doing one that puts you in a weird path an takes your time and money.

Also, MBA is a sort of "well rounded" degree. Meaning it is not super strong in any thing particular but it introduces you to a lot of things. Finance, book keeping/accounting, marketing, sales and what not. So I will suggest against doing another degree to just enter into MBA. It will waste your time, IMHO, and will just make your profile weird. Going from super focused to a well rounded degree. Why? hard to answer. So dont do it.

Now there are specific forums where people can give much better advice on this. I know pagalguy used to be one. There may be more.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Now first things first. I am a tech guy so take my word with a metric tonne of salt. I have NOT treaded this path. There are a lot of variables that make a MBA fit for you or unfit for you BUT, one thing that a lot of folks miss is this: TIME. Here is how:

1. IF you are early in your career, an MBA from a non premium place, IMHO is not really a bad choice. You can still grow take a path and longer you remain in a career, more distant past your degree becomes. Its still there but your experience becomes the key. MBA just gets your feet in the door. Of course unless you have ambition of doing something very specialized. There are PE funds whose MDs almost always come from Harvard.

2. IF you are in late career, go with a MBA that has the best alumni support and mostly these are more premium MBA schools. You do not have as many chances to make mistakes and you will prefer to start from more senior positions. This is especially true if you are adjusting or shifting your career trajectory. NOT doing MBA is okay rather than doing one that puts you in a weird path an takes your time and money.

Also, MBA is a sort of "well rounded" degree. Meaning it is not super strong in any thing particular but it introduces you to a lot of things. Finance, book keeping/accounting, marketing, sales and what not. So I will suggest against doing another degree to just enter into MBA. It will waste your time, IMHO, and will just make your profile weird. Going from super focused to a well rounded degree. Why? hard to answer. So dont do it.

Now there are specific forums where people can give much better advice on this. I know pagalguy used to be one. There may be more.

As someone who is in a C-level job. I second your first point. There are either excellent B-schools or bad ones. There's nothing called a good or average B-school.

#2 - not super sure about the worth of alumni networks. I see most MBA grads make the same mistake of falling into the infinite alumni loop that reduces their capability to grow (e.g. my alumni did X then Y, so I'll do it too is the general gist). It easily becomes a career trap post mid-level management positions.

The other way @imransyed can get into B-schools is by:
1. joining either a startup for a year or so or by joining a VC.
2. since he/she is in tech - they can also create a product/product portfolio to get into a B-school. That way they'll even know what is it that they'd like to do post MBA (finance vs product vs marketing, etc).

 

[imransyed]

@scylla yes, staying away from those. I wonder who even goes to those schools. Probably just international students but idk if they are eligible for that sweet work permit after course completion.

@GandiBaat I'm turning 29 in a few months. I would say I am 6-7 years in my career and because it has not been very remarkable so far, I think the first option suits me well at this time.
I am still looking for answers so I am scouring all the forums out there.

@iSaidGoodDay I am unfortunately not in tech. I work in non-tech procurement, and currently my job is buying spare parts for maintenance of fleet vehicle that my employer owns. Its a very busy job and I make median pay but my colleague here is almost 45 and in the same role. I panic when I think of myself being that age and working this job.
We had a discussion on this thread where people showed me the tech pathway to career as a 28/29 y.o. fresher but it makes more sense to me right now keep working and hopefully growing in procurement long term. I don't imagine myself making big bucks or anything, but I want to be academically as secure as possible. In other words: mid-level management before ChatGPT esque apps make me absolutely redundant lol

 

[GandiBaat]

@GandiBaat I'm turning 29 in a few months. I would say I am 6-7 years in my career and because it has not been very remarkable so far, I think the first option suits me well at this time.
I am still looking for answers so I am scouring all the forums out there.

29 is closer to mid career than 25. I will say go with MBA directly, stick to well known names but if you do not make it to HEC or INSEAD its not that big of an issue. If you are in middle management position at 35-40, no one will ask where you did your MBA. Now where do Canadian MBA schools stand? I do not know to be honest. Given that Canadians have easy access to UK and US, I will expect a lot of them with top American and British B-schools.

 

[Shadow09]

No draw today it seems

 

[AndyUK]

No draw today it seems

It's still quite early. Give it another 1-2 hours. Although I'm not sure if there will be a draw today.

 

[Tifa876]

Hey guys so I just came across this group. I got invited for PR under FSW however I am in Canada on a work permit and my spouse is in another country I have to submit a common law statutory declaration and have it notarized. Was wondering if this could be done virtually with a notary official witnessing. I have contacted a few and they said it can be done but I should check if IRCC will accept it that method. I would love to get a feedback. Thanks

 

[Islander216]

A personal update:

So I have thought long and hard about this and the posts of everyone with their suggestions. I have spent every waking moment trying to weigh my options and an MBA is the best/practical/logical way forward for me, given my circumstances.

A general question to all the well read members here: Is an MBA from a not so well known university like York, Ottawa, etc., valuable? I mean i know it won't be the same as queen's or uft or mcgill or even HEC?

Why I ask this is coz given my professional and educational history, it seems extremely difficult to a level of impossibility for me to get into the top schools, despite getting a decently good GMAT score also. Low GPA is not the problem, the mediocre work/professional experience is a MAJOR hurdle which adcoms really give attention to incase gpa is low.

A different option I am weighing is, get a Masters degree in Econ/Fin, ace the GPA, get a good job and then some years later, go for an MBA. Very long and I would like to not do this but it would make a strong application IMO.

York and Ottawa U are both very good universities with very good reputations. I would not hesitate with either of them.

My issue is that nowadays it seems like the MBA is obsolete, I don't think it has the same pull it once did. So I don't know if it's the best option, I would look into it especially because it's also very expensive.

 

[RSub]

A personal update:

So I have thought long and hard about this and the posts of everyone with their suggestions. I have spent every waking moment trying to weigh my options and an MBA is the best/practical/logical way forward for me, given my circumstances.

A general question to all the well read members here: Is an MBA from a not so well known university like York, Ottawa, etc., valuable? I mean i know it won't be the same as queen's or uft or mcgill or even HEC?

Why I ask this is coz given my professional and educational history, it seems extremely difficult to a level of impossibility for me to get into the top schools, despite getting a decently good GMAT score also. Low GPA is not the problem, the mediocre work/professional experience is a MAJOR hurdle which adcoms really give attention to incase gpa is low.

A different option I am weighing is, get a Masters degree in Econ/Fin, ace the GPA, get a good job and then some years later, go for an MBA. Very long and I would like to not do this but it would make a strong application IMO.

Whats after MBA is what you should be worried!!!! MBA or MS or any other masters doesn’t make any big difference. But the skills you develop do. MBA or Masters is expensive if you are not an PR/citizen and you are not gonna get high paying job unless you have marketable skills. If I were you, I wouldn’t care about what Grad degree I am want to pursue, rather I would spend time to hone my skills. Also, GPA matters less.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Whats after MBA is what you should be worried!!!! MBA or MS or any other masters doesn’t make any big difference. But the skills you develop do. MBA or Masters is expensive if you are not an PR/citizen and you are not gonna get high paying job unless you have marketable skills. If I were you, I wouldn’t care about what Grad degree I am want to pursue, rather I would spend time to hone my skills. Also, GPA matters less.

MBA is more for people who already have skills that want better career prospects or to change careers. If you have no skills and do an MBA, it will be useless. MBA from a good uni just indicates to top firms that the candidate has been vetted to a certain extent and will probably be able to do the job

 

[Shadow09]

Chance of a draw today?

 

[AndyUK]

Chance of a draw today?

Extremely unlikely. If there was no draw on Wednesday it is VERY rare to have a draw on Thursday.

 

[Rohit Chhabra]

Yeah pretty much what everyone else said. Just to add something here, it's not nearly as difficult as you may think it is at this stage. 15-20 hours a week is a very good start. You can increase that amount by sneaking french into your day to day. For me it was podcasts while driving and at the gym. Added up to easily 1 to 1.5 hours of french ilstening a day.

Don't slack on your lessons. imo, your formal learning is the most important part from an exam perspective. I've detailed everything in my guide (link in signature and in goodday's comment). Do a consistent 20 hours a week and you'll probably be a bit shocked at how much progress you'll make in 6 months.

Perhaps I'm a little late to this discussion, but I just want to share my experience for people who may be learning French for a longer time than you guys but haven't been able to clear TEF/TCF yet.
I agree with all the suggestions and approach to learn French as mentioned by @AndyUK, @iSaidGoodDay and @mushymush, and I followed a similar approach too. Structured lessons with AF + 1-on-1 classes on italki + dedicated self-learning time everyday and even after all that, it took me almost 2.5 years to get the desired scores. I just kept missing out in either speaking or writing in my successive attempts. I'm not telling this to discourage any new learners, but just want the new/old learners to know that it's okay if you don't succeed in 6-12 months as many Francophones on this forum have.

If I've to give one suggestion, it would be to consciously distribute your learning time evenly to all the 4 skills. It's very easy to put in more time on reading/ listening vis-a-vis writing/speaking. Make sure you don't do that and put in consistent time for all 4.

Bon courage !

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

Whats after MBA is what you should be worried!!!! MBA or MS or any other masters doesn’t make any big difference. But the skills you develop do. MBA or Masters is expensive if you are not an PR/citizen and you are not gonna get high paying job unless you have marketable skills. If I were you, I wouldn’t care about what Grad degree I am want to pursue, rather I would spend time to hone my skills. Also, GPA matters less.

You are so spot on! We don't even look at MBA education when we hire management candidates. It is all skills, skills, skills. Even with ATS, we no longer have criterias to filter based on education. It is definitely a poor way to hire if MBA education is used in the initial screening. I interview candidates and was a key advisor in several orgs for management hires - never once we said "This person is an MBA".

MBA is more for people who already have skills that want better career prospects or to change careers.

I don't know if that's completely true. MBA hardly adds any value to what we already know if we have skills. I think MBA is more of structured path to land an entry-level management role as some companies (traditional orgs) still potentially use it to screen applicants. 95% of all Directors, VPs and C-levels in my org aren't MBAs, and I'm seeing this trend grow more and more.

In my opinion:

• If someone can run Google ads, there's literally no lack of MBA will hold them back from landing a Paid acquisition role. 3-4 years of accelerated Sr Management path from there is possible.
• If someone can build financial models, good with excel/Python/(VBA? lol), etc - nothing will hold them back from making that career transition.

Honestly, I prefer candidates who built something of their own vs those who'd blindly run SWOT analysis . At least in the cases where we want to hire a top 75 percentile candidate as a preference, we love to see a candidate with a portfolio vs an MBA. I'd try to look for data on MBA preference for hiring that demands a below 75 percentile candidate.

A good read for anyone who is right now re-thinking their career: https://www.reforge.com/blog/how-to-make-career-decisions#Common-Traps-Career-Decisions

 

[imransyed]

York and Ottawa U are both very good universities with very good reputations. I would not hesitate with either of them.

My issue is that nowadays it seems like the MBA is obsolete, I don't think it has the same pull it once did. So I don't know if it's the best option, I would look into it especially because it's also very expensive.

I agree with you a little bit, MBA is outdated but the only Bachelor's degree that I have is low gpa and from a not so great college in India. And now that I sort off realize the value of good education and the doors it can open, I want one degree for which I will put in my everything.

Whats after MBA is what you should be worried!!!! MBA or MS or any other masters doesn’t make any big difference. But the skills you develop do. MBA or Masters is expensive if you are not an PR/citizen and you are not gonna get high paying job unless you have marketable skills. If I were you, I wouldn’t care about what Grad degree I am want to pursue, rather I would spend time to hone my skills. Also, GPA matters less.

Thankfully, I am a PR so for me, the price is not a big factor at all. I would not be spending international student fees on any degree anywhere though. For me an MBA/grad degree is just a door stopper for me to get in, and then the marketing skills plus experience matters more. I have never used anything I learned in my Bachelors at all and I work in supply chain/procurement, so it is very related to the degree I have. (business administration)

MBA is more for people who already have skills that want better career prospects or to change careers. If you have no skills and do an MBA, it will be useless. MBA from a good uni just indicates to top firms that the candidate has been vetted to a certain extent and will probably be able to do the job

I don't know if I have the skills, but I certainly have the need/want/hunger to develop more skills. Its just that my circumstances have really limited me to get my foot in the door. However when I do get an interview call, I tend to ace it with flying colors but its for job that haven't helped me develop new skills really.
That's what I want the MBA to do for me. Open new doors, show recruiters that I have potential and the ability to learn and be good at anything I apply myself to. Kinda want to prove that to myself too.

You are so spot on! We don't even look at MBA education when we hire management candidates. It is all skills, skills, skills. Even with ATS, we no longer have criterias to filter based on education. It is definitely a poor way to hire if MBA education is used in the initial screening. I interview candidates and was a key advisor in several orgs for management hires - never once we said "This person is an MBA".



I don't know if that's completely true. MBA hardly adds any value to what we already know if we have skills. I think MBA is more of structured path to land an entry-level management role as some companies (traditional orgs) still potentially use it to screen applicants. 95% of all Directors, VPs and C-levels in my org aren't MBAs, and I'm seeing this trend grow more and more.

In my opinion:

• If someone can run Google ads, there's literally no lack of MBA will hold them back from landing a Paid acquisition role. 3-4 years of accelerated Sr Management path from there is possible.
• If someone can build financial models, good with excel/Python/(VBA? lol), etc - nothing will hold them back from making that career transition.

Honestly, I prefer candidates who built something of their own vs those who'd blindly run SWOT analysis . At least in the cases where we want to hire a top 75 percentile candidate as a preference, we love to see a candidate with a portfolio vs an MBA. I'd try to look for data on MBA preference for hiring that demands a below 75 percentile candidate.

A good read for anyone who is right now re-thinking their career: https://www.reforge.com/blog/how-to-make-career-decisions#Common-Traps-Career-Decisions

So many points that I can relate to. After the citizenship, I intend to move back to GCC region which has a tonne of traditional orgs, with traditional hiring mindsets. It is not that I need an MBA to learn good management skills or anything, its just that in that region of the world, a degree is door opener. Opposite is true for Canada though.

Can you expand on the Google ads thing a little bit?


Also to all: I am looking for professional career/guidance counsellors who specialize a bit on the mature side of things. MBAcrystalball is well known, but i am still on the look out. Once I am through with it, I will post the results here.

Stay safe out there!