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Frustrated!!!PLEASE HELP, Leon or anybody. Conjugal Partnership e-mail.

figlove2010

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Im sorry, i know most of you think that tuyen is rude...but i have read through this and i totally agree with tuyen in a sense...why go through unnecessary heartache and with waiting and then waiting longer to possibly get refuse to then again file for an appeal and wait again... :-\
and with laws changes everyday...what if a law comes out where your spouse is unable to get a visa for the appeal? and only you now have to attend to prove once again your relationship....

Anyways like you said there are factors you cant explain as to why both of you cant get married...

but i wish you both of you luck..hope to hear good news at the end... :D
 

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Because to not be married is as much as a personal right as getting married. And really, at a 50% divorce rate, how will a marriage prove a relationship is real?

The OP does want to get married, but she can argue she doesn't have to. If she's already told the VO they plan to get married, that plan probably won't work... Lol.

The point is, being required to get married is against your personal freedoms. I'm personally 110% pro marriage, but also 110% pro personal rights.
 
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Erina

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Thank you both for your wishes. Let's just forget who is rude and who is not Cheesy I do agree, nowadays their laws are changing everyday and it's wrong to plan our future based on their unreliably changing rules. Just 3 days ago they set up a whole new law for spouse sponsorship. What I know is I've been absolutely truthful throughout my whole application, and tried my best to explain what's preventing us from marriage that's beyond our control. It seems the officer in charge of my file is one of those hard going ones lol the only thing today is to wait for his next concerns... overall we had a strong application. The only thing I'm mad about is why they don't have a straightforward law with facts and factors, and why does each application depends on Officer's point of view!!! I wish they would either solve this thing soon or say that OK no more immigrants, end of story. At least we'll be sure about things 100%. It's not only my case...I've seen other people going through so much stress for long periods just because everything is 50-50....
 

tuyen

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amikety said:
Because to not be married is as much as a personal right as getting married. And really, at a 50% divorce rate, how will a marriage prove a relationship is real?
Please, let's stop with this myth. The more I hear it, the more it makes my head feel like exploding, because every time someone quotes it and you ask them "where did you get that from?", they can never give you an answer other than "oh that's what I heard", or something equally ludicrous.

The reality is that this 50% nonsense was started back in the late 1970s in the U.S, during which time there was a brief and sudden spike in divorces when no-fault divorce laws came into effect. As a result, it led one very poorly-conceived newspaper article to implant this figure into people's heads. The "statistic" was anything but. It was based on a VERY faulty data sample, which was then printed in several newspaper articles across the U.S., and the 50% figure spread like wildfire. Yes, there were several attempts made to set the record straight and to try and explain why the 50% number was faulty, but by that point it was too late. The original story about 50% divorce rates was front-page news at the time, whereas the corrections and explanations were buried on page 28. So here we are, more than 30 years after the original fiasco, and people still continue to perpetuate the myth. It's right up there with the other classics like how it takes seven years to digest gum if you swallow it, or that if you eat late at night, you'll get fat. Both are nonsense, and yet almost everyone has heard of them and most continue to believe them to be true.

The ACTUAL rates of divorce are very far from 50%. And if you want to know the actual divorce rate, rather than some hocus pocus made-up number, you have to do it properly. And that's exactly what Louis Harris (one of the most famous and highly-respected pollsters) did for his book, Inside America. What he did was employ common sense to arrive at his numbers. He went and actually asked people who were married a bunch of questions. And lo and behold, after his polling was completed, it turned out that the divorce rate wasn't anywhere CLOSE to 50%, but was actually five times lower. These were not projections or made-up numbers. They were real statistics derived from his polling that looked at people who were married, and asked the simple question: "is this your first marriage, or have you been divorced in the past?" And the numbers clearly revealed that of all the people who were ever married, only 11-12% were ever divorced.

Looking closer at the numbers, Harris' polling revealed some very simple (albeit often-overlooked) facts, which were backed up by multiple independent studies done in later years:
- the younger you are when you get married, the more likely it is that you'll be divorced
- if your parents were divorced, there was a higher chance that your own marriage will end in divorce
- the less educated you are, the more likely it is that you'll be divorced

So if two morons decide to get married at 18 years of age and six months later they're filing for divorce, nobody should be the least bit surprised. But that's a far cry from saying that half of all marriages will end up like theirs.

The only people who continue to repeat the "50% of all marriages" myth are those who simply don't know any better, and those who have their own social and political agendas. I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not trying to push an agenda, but now that you know better, please help dispel this myth by shooting it down in the future when you hear someone repeating it.
 

computergeek

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tuyen said:
Please, let's stop with this myth. The more I hear it, the more it makes my head feel like exploding, because every time someone quotes it and you ask them "where did you get that from?", they can never give you an answer other than "oh that's what I heard", or something equally ludicrous.
This made me curious: what is the divorce rate in Canada. Answer: 41% for first marriages, and it is down slightly.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/04/vanier-study004.html

I do know I've read the marriage rate in Canada has dropped over the years, and I found confirmation of this as well: http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsCAN.shtml

The same source also stated: "More than one-third of marriages in Canada will end in divorce before the thirtieth anniversary".

So indeed, it doesn't look like the number is 50%. More like 34%-41% depending upon the specific definition used.

I still am not sure why this forms the basis of castigating the OP. I for one still do not fully understand the situation in which she finds herself.

I do trust that the CIC process will give her a reasonable hearing and an opportunity to make her case - and the officer will have all the facts in front of her or him, unlike us.
 

amikety

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I was quoting stats from my own country which is oh so far away.


You're taking a demonstration of solidarity and support for the OP and arguing about stats. That isn't the point of this thread.
 

moochops

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figlove2010 said:
Im sorry, i know most of you think that tuyen is rude...but i have read through this and i totally agree with tuyen in a sense...why go through unnecessary heartache and with waiting and then waiting longer to possibly get refuse to then again file for an appeal and wait again... :-\
and with laws changes everyday...what if a law comes out where your spouse is unable to get a visa for the appeal? and only you now have to attend to prove once again your relationship....

Anyways like you said there are factors you cant explain as to why both of you cant get married...

but i wish you both of you luck..hope to hear good news at the end... :D
I have to agree too. Erina you state that you have outlined in your letter to CIC that you basically don't want to go against your fathers wishes because he basically supports you. But on the other hand you have said that once your partner comes to Canada you will get married, so is your father going to approve of the marriage once your bf is here then?
 
E

Erina

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moochops said:
I have to agree too. Erina you state that you have outlined in your letter to CIC that you basically don't want to go against your fathers wishes because he basically supports you. But on the other hand you have said that once your partner comes to Canada you will get married, so is your father going to approve of the marriage once your bf is here then?
Well basically his permission is one of the many reasons we have and we have mentioned in the letter. The fact is that I'm currently financially dependent to family and a student also, but moving out when partner gets PR and he'll contribute financially as well, so in that case I don't give a fuck for parental permission anymore, I've had enough and I do believe in marriage and want to marry my love of life.
 
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Erina

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Does anybody know since they gave us 60 days to reply back, would they also give us answer after 60 days, if they'd have any concern?
 

computergeek

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Erina said:
Does anybody know since they gave us 60 days to reply back, would they also give us answer after 60 days, if they'd have any concern?
No guarantee as to their response time.
 

moochops

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Erina said:
Well basically his permission is one of the many reasons we have and we have mentioned in the letter. The fact is that I'm currently financially dependent to family and a student also, but moving out when partner gets PR and he'll contribute financially as well, so in that case I don't give a *censored word* for parental permission anymore, I've had enough and I do believe in marriage and want to marry my love of life.
Then go to turkey on the quiet (ie don't tell your family), marry your spouse - coe back as though nothing has happened - sponsor him through the spousal route and then he can come over here and you can live happily ever after!

Way better than not being approved for the conugal route and then having to do that anyway!
 

tuyen

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Erina said:
Well basically his permission is one of the many reasons we have and we have mentioned in the letter. The fact is that I'm currently financially dependent to family and a student also, but moving out when partner gets PR and he'll contribute financially as well, so in that case I don't give a *censored word* for parental permission anymore, I've had enough and I do believe in marriage and want to marry my love of life.
I'm going to give you one last bit of advice, and you're free to listen to it, or ignore it completely. I'm saying this in all seriousness, and not doing it to make fun of you or to give you a hard time.

My recommendation is to withdraw your application and really REALLY give some serious thought as to where you want your life to go in the next few years. The reason I'm saying this is because everything right now is working AGAINST you, and you have a better chance of winning the lottery than to get your boyfriend into Canada within the next 5 years. Here are the facts:

- you're not old enough and mature enough to be married
- you still depend on your parents for everything
- your boyfriend lives in a country that is currently the number one state-sponsor of terrorism in the world

When the CIC will process your application, they will see all of these things, just as easily as I can see them. They see a young girl who is unable (or unwilling) to live her own life and depends heavily on her parents. This means you're in absolutely no position to sponsor anybody because you have no income due to the fact that you're still a student. They look at the person you're trying to sponsor, and you know what they see? A potential threat to national security. They see a guy (probably in his early 20s) who appears to be trying to find an easy ticket to the West from a country which has made it one of its primary goals to export fanaticism - exactly the kind of person that sets off red flags and alarm bells not only at CIC, but also at CSIS.

Is that a fair assessment? From your point of view, definitely not. But from the CIC's point of view, those are the facts with which they've been presented, and your application will be based on those facts. If your boyfriend was from a completely different part of the world, you would STILL have a very difficult time getting your application approved because of your current situation. But the fact that he's from Iran just makes it about a million times more unlikely that your application will be approved, ESPECIALLY given the fact that the CIC sees that you're unable or unwilling to be married to him. From their point of view, it's a high-risk case of immigration fraud under the best of circumstances, and a potential threat to national security under the worst of circumstances.

Canada has already had its Royal Family of terrorism in the form of the Khadr family. The last thing the government wants now is to have a repeat performance. And because of that, your boyfriend will always undergo far heavier scrutiny during any immigration process. Even if he's a completely non-violent, peace-loving hippie, it doesn't change the fact that in simple terms, he's trying to get a ticket to Canada through you. And for that reason, you too will be under scrutiny because CIC will need to determine if you're a knowing and willing accomplice in this scheme, or if you're simply a girl who's in love with a guy that happens to live in a very unfortunate part of the world right now.

You have four basic options at this point:
1) continue with your application, despite everything working against you
2) ask yourself whether you really want to live the next several years of your life in a state of limbo and uncertainty
3) move to Iran, give up all your freedoms and privileges as a Canadian, and do whatever is necessary to be with him
4) have him flee Iran and try to get refugee status, either in Canada or any European country

If you choose the first route, your application stands an infinitesimal chance of being approved. In the very likely event that it gets rejected, it will work against you in the future if you try applying a second time with a failed application already in your file.

The second option would be what I would strongly advise you to do. I know from personal experience that it's very painful to be apart from someone you love, but you need to face the very real possibility that he will never be allowed into Canada UNLESS his country undergoes a very major and dramatic change in government...and even then, it could still take 10-20 years for all the dust to settle and for other nations to see Iran as a friend rather than a foe. And in the meantime, you'll be living out some of the best years of your life fighting what may ultimately be a battle that can't be won. Are you prepared for that on an emotional level? What about him? Are you 100% certain that he's as committed to you as you are to him? Or is he running around in Iran right now with a girl that you don't even know about? And even if he's still completely faithful to you today, what about two or three years from now while you're still fighting to get him sponsored? Are you prepared for the possibility that one day he will tell you that this is simply too difficult for him and he can't do it anymore because he wants to have a wife and children that he could be with tomorrow as opposed to who-knows-when?

The third option would be an act of insanity, so I won't even go into it.

The fourth and final option may be your last hope, and based on your circumstances, I would say it stands a better chance of succeeding than your conjugal sponsorship. It would by no means be easy, and would very likely mean that you would continue to be apart for the foreseeable future, but at least there's SOME hope there.

Your situation, unfortunately, is a very complex one which has too many obstacles blocking nearly every possible path. For that reason, I would strongly encourage you to give some serious thought as to how you want the next several years of your life to unfold. Regardless of what you choose to do, I wish you the best of luck.
 

aerogurl87

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I agree with moochops. I'd also like to add that the fact that you cite your family's lack of approval as a barrier will be a red flag to CIC. They support you, but not the relationship. So if he moves over, can't find or refuses to work, what will happen? More than likely he will go on welfare, which will mean him becoming a burden to the state. Just something to think about.
 

SchnookoLoly

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Any update to this? Have just been reading through it and I'm quite interested to know if there's been an outcome!
 

Steph C

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SchnookoLoly said:
Any update to this? Have just been reading through it and I'm quite interested to know if there's been an outcome!
I seriously doubt it.. a conjugal case, or any application, won't be approved in 1.5 months. Don't apply for conjugal unless you absolutely can't marry and can't be together.