Food for thought - marriage fraud and scam-artists

[gsize]

for those who are quick to criticize this lady. This COULD and DOES happen from time to time. We dont know the facts so please dont judge.

For those who think the 2 year conditional will help. Well, I guess its progress but how will it be enforced.? Do you think Imm/CBSA. will hunt them down ?. We cant even get them to increase the Visa officers at many posts around the world (with horribl wait times). All it would take would be $100.00 or $200.00 per applicant and therfore does not affect Canadain taxpayer.

Immigration is not a science. Unless one has psychic abilities, it could happen to anyone !
:-*

 

[Rob_TO]

Well, I guess its progress but how will it be enforced.? Do you think Imm/CBSA. will hunt them down ?

It's pretty easy to find someone if they wanted to. All CIC would need to do is wait until they use a health card, SIN or apply for welfare... and they would then know exactly where he is. Although in this specific case he didn't technically do anything illegal, as he could just say he changed his mind about the relationship after arriving in Canada. Of course we all know that's not true... but i don't think you can prove it by law.

With the new law, if the guy leaves the sponsor like this and goes to live elsewhere in Canada, the sponsor can now report the terminated relationship over to CIC. If the scammer can't be found, i'm sure CIC could cancel his PR, SIN and health card. So the sponsor at least would be in the clear.

My only question is why on earth it took the CIC so long to put in such an obvious rule that should have been done years ago.

 

[gsize]

exactly ! The only thing I can add. If the new Immigrant will do this to their sponsor, Im sure they will not have a problem going underground-

God only knows how many illegals we have here. ! I think we have lots !

 

[amikety]

It's pretty easy to find someone if they wanted to. All CIC would need to do is wait until they use a health card, SIN or apply for welfare... and they would then know exactly where he is. Although in this specific case he didn't technically do anything illegal, as he could just say he changed his mind about the relationship after arriving in Canada. Of course we all know that's not true... but i don't think you can prove it by law.

With the new law, if the guy leaves the sponsor like this and goes to live elsewhere in Canada, the sponsor can now report the terminated relationship over to CIC. If the scammer can't be found, i'm sure CIC could cancel his PR, SIN and health card. So the sponsor at least would be in the clear.

My only question is why on earth it took the CIC so long to put in such an obvious rule that should have been done years ago.

Because Canada is competing with the USA, New Zealand, and Australia for skilled workers. By presenting themselves as family friendly, Canada can attract workers who have children that have a bf/gf back home and singles that may want to marry someone back home. It's incentive - because out of the four, Canada is the coldest and significantly more expensive than the USA.

It's also part of their humanitarian stance.

Canada is behind everyone on these laws. They seem to prefer to learn the hard way rather than research and use lessons learned by others.

 

[truesmile]

@gsize - I totally agree this could happen to anyone, we're not criticizing just making observations on a few red flags;
@amikety - also totally agree. Who knows how deep the feasibility studies go ... perhaps all the economic growth from successful immigration more than covers some inevitable losses that get through the cracks and at some level it is agreed that it's acceptable. I was surprised but impressed at the publication of the "marriages to Cubans" statistics, and how they (allegedly) went back to enforce greater scrutiny at that VO.

 

[mameelynn]

for those who are quick to criticize this lady. This COULD and DOES happen from time to time. We dont know the facts so please dont judge.

For those who think the 2 year conditional will help. Well, I guess its progress but how will it be enforced.? Do you think Imm/CBSA. will hunt them down ?. We cant even get them to increase the Visa officers at many posts around the world (with horribl wait times). All it would take would be $100.00 or $200.00 per applicant and therfore does not affect Canadain taxpayer.

Immigration is not a science. Unless one has psychic abilities, it could happen to anyone !
:-*

I'm pretty sure we are already paying more then enough for immigration! Even if they read everything that we included with our application twice (once for sponsorship approval and once for applicant approval) and as long as there are 1. no red flags and 2. a clean fingerprint report(or the equivalent of) the hands on time for most cases I would assume is maybe MAYBE 4 hrs. That means either there is a lot of our payment that is being skimmed off the top already or immigration employees are getting paid upwards of $300/hr! That being said at least for family class it should be a simple supply and demand... we all pay them at least part of the money if not all upfront so the fact that they say they can't afford to hire more people is plain stupid!! If they stopped treating everyone as frauds until we prove ourselves innocent (like I don't know... the way the courts are "innocent until proven guilty") and put more effort into harsher punishments for the frauds once it occurs like this scumbag did(who got approved as a legit couple btw!) everything would be much faster instead of the "well it will just be added to the 10000 reports of fraud we have on file" without costing anyone extra money.

 

[truesmile]

I don't think the Canadian public at large would buy into the "let's let EVERYONE into Canada until we can prove that they're fraudulent" concept. $300/hour? They are federal jobs . . . their pension plan costs us a fortune. (Just to name "one" line item of overhead.)

 

[Steph C]

Marriage to Cubans is just in the spotlight because it's usually interracial couples where often the female is the one left jilted. There is plenty of marriage fraud from India and Pakistan, but is not as sensational. I'm sorry but our society just doesn't like interracial dating, especially when it's a white woman with a man of another culture.

 

[mameelynn]

I don't think the Canadian public at large would buy into the "let's let EVERYONE into Canada until we can prove that they're fraudulent" concept. $300/hour? They are federal jobs . . . their pension plan costs us a fortune. (Just to name "one" line item of overhead.)

I'm not saying let everyone in without even looking at a file but lets be honest... that guy made it past the system to high-tail it away from his wife 3 days after he landed and now CIC is saying that his name will be added to thousands of others that have been reported to them as frauds that they don't do anything about. I'm just saying that they should maybe give more information of their forms then "if there is anything else that you think will help prove your relationship is genuine and ongoing please include it...blah blah blah" for what they want and stop acting like we are all frauds from the start. I really do believe that it would be more beneficial to stop potential frauds to see a country that is harsher at punishing upon finding of a fraud and also it would be better for the people of Canada to see frauds punished. Right now everyday Canadian's have no idea how broken the system is and blame all immigrates because they continue to see the know frauds walking around with the government doing nothing about it. If nothing else it would at least make more news reports so people would at least be talking about it and maybe be willing to do something about it!

 

[gsize]

the criminals often go to the front of the line while the honest ones finish last.

April will be 4 years for us (after wining appeal in Toronto August 2012)

Im at my wits end !

To think that I cant bring my partner here (visa restriction) even after we won appeal is simply not fair. All that needs to be done is medical & police check.

Our Immigration is badly flawed. Even PM Harper says this publicly. Shame !

 

[truesmile]

There is plenty of marriage fraud from India and Pakistan, but is not as sensational. I'm sorry but our society just doesn't like interracial dating, especially when it's a white woman with a man of another culture.

No need to be sorry, don't be.

@mameelynn - all "that guy" had to be was a good actor. He is a fraud now, yes. Until he ran away, perhaps he wasn't (albeit already in his plans). Maybe he even fooled HIS family, simply so that their sincerity (to her) would be more genuine. All the pre-checking, qualifying, and whatever else they do (or COULD do), can easily come up empty.

 

[Rob_TO]

@ mameelynn - all "that guy" had to be was a good actor. He is a fraud now, yes. Until he ran away, perhaps he wasn't (albeit already in his plans). Maybe he even fooled HIS family, simply so that their sincerity (to her) would be more genuine. All the pre-checking, qualifying, and whatever else they do (or COULD do), can easily come up empty.

Exactly. For almost 3 years this guy maintained a fake relationship and convinced someone beyond a doubt he really loved her... all for the purposes of immigration. But even if they went in for an interview during the PR process, they probably would have passed with flying colours. On paper they were a true couple, and both would have expressed that at any interview.

Unfortunately this is practically impossible to detect. You would need to essentially ban Canadians from sponsoring anybody from a country where fraud rate is high... cause you can't possibly catch all the cases where people are faking it to immigrate here... and too often they reject people who are genuine couples. In the end, sometime you need to put the bulk of responsibility with the sponsor who is being duped, and not the government.

Will the 2-year relationship rule help? Possibly.. but it also could mean this guy would have just faked it another 2 years on top of the 3 he already did. Would have been much harder though, as when living with someone for 2 years its much harder to fake a loving relationship, vs long distance and only occasional visits. Perhaps if given the chance, during the 2 years she would have seen through his real intentions and been able to end the relationship and revoke his PR.

 

[scos]

I'm annoyed that the Star is playing up this marriage fraud stuff again. For most Canadians it will trigger thoughts of clamping down on a system that is already too slow and convoluted to begin with. Why not on the same page have a story of someone like gsize for instance, waiting for 4 years, or any other person who has been stuck in this stupid bureaucracy? It sounds like a great piece to run to cover for the ever growing wait times (we are working hard to avoid this kind of marriage fraud and that takes time, blah, blah, blah).

Also there is a lot in that article I find odd. Like much of the money "wasted" was in renovations, a big screen TV and a $4000 bedroom set. So did he take these with him? She still has all that. She obviously couldn't afford them. And who renovates a basement "apartment" unless it is their PARENT'S basement. Most landlords would have something to say of tenants tearing up floors. So where is her responsibility in all this. Marriage or no marriage all that spending was irresponsible considering you are supporting a child on a waitress' pay.

And finally, the note. I don't believe that for a second. I like how it conveniently says he will pay her back. I also like the fact it is on a napkin. According to her, she went to work and when she got home he was gone, leaving the note. I can tell you if I were going to leave a note, I would write it on paper. Ever try to write on a napkin? Surely there was some kind of paper in the house. An envelope, a newspaper, a magazine, something. I know I have lots of paper, envelopes, toilet paper, tissues, even paper towel. But for the life of me I have no napkins.

You know who does have napkins? Restaurants. Where she works. As a waitress. I would be willing to bet that he either just left with no explanation. Or he said goodbye on the phone. She wrote that note herself. That she wants the authorities to help her track him down is obvious. But she also talks of "closure". She needs "closure". If that note were real, how much more closure do you need? However if he just took off, then yes, I could see how someone may still need closure because of all the unanswered questions.

All in all I do not like the article. That other case is also ridiculous for reasons truesmile has already pointed out.

 

[mameelynn]

Will the 2-year relationship rule help? Possibly.. but it also could mean this guy would have just faked it another 2 years on top of the 3 he already did. Would have been much harder though, as when living with someone for 2 years its much harder to fake a loving relationship, vs long distance and only occasional visits. Perhaps if given the chance, during the 2 years she would have seen through his real intentions and been able to end the relationship and revoke his PR.

I agree... Maybe the best way to have it both ways would be to have the ability to have the applicant live with their spouse in Canada during the processing times and still have the extended time of the conditional PR for at least the 2 years. I know that there is a lot of extra stress even on the legit couples with extended time apart, the extra costs of visits and phone calls. Even for people like myself who is able to be with my husband(living outside of Canada during the process) we have to a certain extent had to put things on hold in our lives that we wouldn't have had to as much had we been able to wait the time in Canada without the risk of my husband being denied access to Canada or the risk of him having to leave because we have been in process for the last year.

Scos... Yes I do agree that just showing this woman crying and the fact that CIC is doing NOTHING to get the fraud out will just add more negative responses from Canadians. I also agree that crying over the fact that she has been spending money on renovations or over priced bedroom sets are her own fault but when it comes to him leaving lets not be overly harsh to her. This would have a much better impact if the story had showed how upset and cheated she felt and followed it up with CIC doing something about it and getting him out!

 

[truesmile]

I'm annoyed that the Star is playing up this marriage fraud stuff again.

AGREE 100%. But you see the story about 'gsize', that's NOT "crime", that's not "sensational", that's not "front page news". When you (journalists) can't even get the sports scores correct from the night before, how on earth do you figure to dabble in an issue like 'immigration' or 'immigration fraud' accurately and objectively.

Good catch about the 'napkins', that totally makes sense!