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Do we need to apply for a TRV extension?

iron&wine

Member
Apr 30, 2021
10
1
Hi everyone,

I am trying to improve my understanding of when it is necessary to apply for a TRV extension.

My common-law partner entered Canada November 7 last year with a multi-entry TRV (no stamp), so his six months is coming up next week.

We applied for spousal sponsorship (PR + OWP) inland at the beginning of April. We have yet to hear anything back from IRCC/Mississauga.

I understand that normally one should apply for an extension 30 days before their TRV is 'up', but we thought his status was maintained by his OWP app... now I am doubting that this is correct?

On top of this, an even bigger concern that we have is that we will soon (in June or July) be visiting his home country together, possibly for a few months. Obviously if we leave Canada, his six months 'resets'—but could we get dinged at the border when he leaves if they see that he has overstayed his TRV without an extension, assuming we haven't heard anything back on his OWP application?

Is there another factor I'm not considering?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 

Underhill

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
312
185
Vancouver, BC
Hi everyone,

I am trying to improve my understanding of when it is necessary to apply for a TRV extension.

My common-law partner entered Canada November 7 last year with a multi-entry TRV (no stamp), so his six months is coming up next week.

We applied for spousal sponsorship (PR + OWP) inland at the beginning of April. We have yet to hear anything back from IRCC/Mississauga.

I understand that normally one should apply for an extension 30 days before their TRV is 'up', but we thought his status was maintained by his OWP app... now I am doubting that this is correct?

On top of this, an even bigger concern that we have is that we will soon (in June or July) be visiting his home country together, possibly for a few months. Obviously if we leave Canada, his six months 'resets'—but could we get dinged at the border when he leaves if they see that he has overstayed his TRV without an extension, assuming we haven't heard anything back on his OWP application?

Is there another factor I'm not considering?

Thanks in advance for your help!
The rules on this are a bit ambiguous. Some (including IRCC) say that as long as your partner has an active spousal sponsorship PR/OWP application they have what's now called 'Maintained Status'. The application only needs to be delivered to IRCC for this status to begin (like proof of delivery with tracking). This status expires when either the PR or OWP application is approved, denied or returned.

CBSA says absolutely no way does a first-time OWP applicant have any implied or maintained status.

What this means is that as long as your partner doesn't need to cross the border until a decision on the PR or OWP application is made he will be fine - IRCC won't consider him out of status while he waits.

But this all may be moot: your entire PR/OWP application would be cancelled by IRCC if you or he leave the country for more than a couple of weeks.
 

iron&wine

Member
Apr 30, 2021
10
1
The rules on this are a bit ambiguous. Some (including IRCC) say that as long as your partner has an active spousal sponsorship PR/OWP application they have what's now called 'Maintained Status'. The application only needs to be delivered to IRCC for this status to begin (like proof of delivery with tracking). This status expires when either the PR or OWP application is approved, denied or returned.

CBSA says absolutely no way does a first-time OWP applicant have any implied or maintained status.

What this means is that as long as your partner doesn't need to cross the border until a decision on the PR or OWP application is made he will be fine - IRCC won't consider him out of status while he waits.

But this all may be moot: your entire PR/OWP application would be cancelled by IRCC if you or he leave the country for more than a couple of weeks.
Thank you so much for your reply, Underhill. Your comments re: CBSA and IRCC make total sense and were very helpful.

Regarding travel, I was told directly by IRCC that the only risk we face when travelling is being turned back at the border, and that if he was denied entry to Canada, then his app would be cancelled. I have not heard that leaving the country for more than a few weeks would result in the cancellation of his app by IRCC (at least, not recently—I know this was a concern several years ago).

Could you kindly clarify, if you have any more info than what you have already provided?
 

Underhill

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
312
185
Vancouver, BC
Thank you so much for your reply, Underhill. Your comments re: CBSA and IRCC make total sense and were very helpful.

Regarding travel, I was told directly by IRCC that the only risk we face when travelling is being turned back at the border, and that if he was denied entry to Canada, then his app would be cancelled. I have not heard that leaving the country for more than a few weeks would result in the cancellation of his app by IRCC (at least, not recently—I know this was a concern several years ago).

Could you kindly clarify, if you have any more info than what you have already provided?
Here is how the policies of the IRCC are different than those of the CBSA:

While IRCC says you have maintained status while you wait for your OWP application to process, you're fine while in-country.

CBSA doesn't recognize the IRCC's maintained status for first time OWP applicants (meaning, your OWP application is NOT a renewal), and it is within their discretion to use the time you were out of status (the days between the expiration of your visitor visa and the date you left Canada) against you and, upon leaving, deny you future re-entry.

Will this happen you? Because it's entirely up to the CBSA agent, no one can predict what they will do at that moment. If CBSA determines you were out of status in Canada for more than a month or two the odds go up of a rough time. Been out of status for 6 months or more? Depending on the CBSA agent you could be waved through with a smile, or be denied future entry.

IRCC knows when you leave the country, and while hard data on the amount of time an inland PR applicant can remain out of country is unclear. Like the CBSA agents at the border, IRCC agents have broad discretion, and could just as easily place your application at the bottom of the pile for review later, or cancel it. The only way to know for sure is to leave and see what happens.

My strong recommendation is to stay in-country until an OWP or PR determination is made. If you can't stay until then and need to leave for an extended period of time, then count on your application being cancelled and make plans accordingly. If the application isn't cancelled on your return then you have a great excuse for a nice dinner at your favourite restaurant (pandemic notwithstanding).

Moral of the story given the details of your situation as you've presented it here? Stay in-country until your PR application is approved. Otherwise plan on wrestling with Canadian bureaucracy for a while.
 
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iron&wine

Member
Apr 30, 2021
10
1
Here is how the policies of the IRCC are different than those of the CBSA:

While IRCC says you have maintained status while you wait for your OWP application to process, you're fine while in-country.

CBSA doesn't recognize the IRCC's maintained status for first time OWP applicants (meaning, your OWP application is NOT a renewal), and it is within their discretion to use the time you were out of status (the days between the expiration of your visitor visa and the date you left Canada) against you and, upon leaving, deny you future re-entry.

Will this happen you? Because it's entirely up to the CBSA agent, no one can predict what they will do at that moment. If CBSA determines you were out of status in Canada for more than a month or two the odds go up of a rough time. Been out of status for 6 months or more? Depending on the CBSA agent you could be waved through with a smile, or be denied future entry.

IRCC knows when you leave the country, and while hard data on the amount of time an inland PR applicant can remain out of country is unclear. Like the CBSA agents at the border, IRCC agents have broad discretion, and could just as easily place your application at the bottom of the pile for review later, or cancel it. The only way to know for sure is to leave and see what happens.

My strong recommendation is to stay in-country until an OWP or PR determination is made. If you can't stay until then and need to leave for an extended period of time, then count on your application being cancelled and make plans accordingly. If the application isn't cancelled on your return then you have a great excuse for a nice dinner at your favourite restaurant (pandemic notwithstanding).

Moral of the story given the details of your situation as you've presented it here? Stay in-country until your PR application is approved. Otherwise plan on wrestling with Canadian bureaucracy for a while.
Thanks for expanding, this is exactly the information I have been looking for. I have a few follow-up questions, if I can pester you further:

1. Any thoughts on how this scenario might change if we were to apply to extend his visa and then leave the country — can we show proof of the extension application to CBSA? Of course, we wouldn't have a decision yet since everything is so delayed, only proof of app...

2. 'Stay in-country until'... the PR OR his OWP is approved? Could we potentially travel once his OWP is approved but before his PR is approved?

3. In your broad use of 'you', am I correct in assuming we are referring to the principal applicant? Or do you recommend against the sponsor leaving Canada also? I have a work trip in the fall that will be very hard to avoid...

A gazillion billion thanks!
 

Underhill

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
312
185
Vancouver, BC
Thanks for expanding, this is exactly the information I have been looking for. I have a few follow-up questions, if I can pester you further:

1. Any thoughts on how this scenario might change if we were to apply to extend his visa and then leave the country — can we show proof of the extension application to CBSA? Of course, we wouldn't have a decision yet since everything is so delayed, only proof of app...

2. 'Stay in-country until'... the PR OR his OWP is approved? Could we potentially travel once his OWP is approved but before his PR is approved?

3. In your broad use of 'you', am I correct in assuming we are referring to the principal applicant? Or do you recommend against the sponsor leaving Canada also? I have a work trip in the fall that will be very hard to avoid...

A gazillion billion thanks!
Having a valid visitor record (visa extension) eliminates any hassle with the CBSA. Being out of country for more than a couple of weeks is still risky for your PR application in general.

A valid OWP gives you temporary residence status in Canada, and can be used to re-enter Canada. Currently first-time OWP's are only being issued after the PR applicant receives his AIP (Approved in Principle), and at that stage, leaving might not be a good idea, as the application process is winding down rapidly and there will be a lot to do in a short amount of time before getting your CoPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence). Once you have your CoPR you're officially a PR, but will still need the PR card to cross into Canada as a PR.

Yes, by 'You' I mean the Applicant. The sponsor can leave temporarily, but the same vague rules apply toward the status of your PR application - more than a couple of week out of country and you run the risk of the PR application being cancelled.

If you absolutely must leave for months I suggest you obtain a visitor record (to avoid CBSA border hassles) and cancel the PR application yourself. Then reapply once you're both able to stay in-country for the entire process.
 

iron&wine

Member
Apr 30, 2021
10
1
Having a valid visitor record (visa extension) eliminates any hassle with the CBSA. Being out of country for more than a couple of weeks is still risky for your PR application in general.

A valid OWP gives you temporary residence status in Canada, and can be used to re-enter Canada. Currently first-time OWP's are only being issued after the PR applicant receives his AIP (Approved in Principle), and at that stage, leaving might not be a good idea, as the application process is winding down rapidly and there will be a lot to do in a short amount of time before getting your CoPR (Confirmation of Permanent Residence). Once you have your CoPR you're officially a PR, but will still need the PR card to cross into Canada as a PR.

Yes, by 'You' I mean the Applicant. The sponsor can leave temporarily, but the same vague rules apply toward the status of your PR application - more than a couple of week out of country and you run the risk of the PR application being cancelled.

If you absolutely must leave for months I suggest you obtain a visitor record (to avoid CBSA border hassles) and cancel the PR application yourself. Then reapply once you're both able to stay in-country for the entire process.
After reading your very articulate and detailed posts, I called IRCC again yesterday to request additional information.

I received more or less the same advice you provide above—that is to say, the agent actually said 'we won't know if you leave the country', but that 'you shouldn't leave for long because your application could be considered abandoned'.

I'm not sure what to do with such vague advice, and it leaves me wondering, still: how much do IRCC and CBSA really communicate?

Are applications really cancelled when people travel, or is it mostly hear-say that keeps folks from travelling?

If my spouse has a multi-entry visa already that is valid until 2026, and now that we have applied for a TRV extension (visitor record, as you mention), what is the real risk with him leaving for a month or so?

Is not the biggest risk that he is denied entry at the border for some reason, which seems incredibly unlikely if he is travelling with me, his Canadian spouse?

In short, how would IRCC become aware that he is not in the country?
 

Underhill

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
312
185
Vancouver, BC
After reading your very articulate and detailed posts, I called IRCC again yesterday to request additional information.

I received more or less the same advice you provide above—that is to say, the agent actually said 'we won't know if you leave the country', but that 'you shouldn't leave for long because your application could be considered abandoned'.

I'm not sure what to do with such vague advice, and it leaves me wondering, still: how much do IRCC and CBSA really communicate?

Are applications really cancelled when people travel, or is it mostly hear-say that keeps folks from travelling?

If my spouse has a multi-entry visa already that is valid until 2026, and now that we have applied for a TRV extension (visitor record, as you mention), what is the real risk with him leaving for a month or so?

Is not the biggest risk that he is denied entry at the border for some reason, which seems incredibly unlikely if he is travelling with me, his Canadian spouse?

In short, how would IRCC become aware that he is not in the country?
They'll know.

If you're departing at an international airport all exit data is shared with CBSA (and ultimately IRCC).

If you're leaving via a land border to the US they'll know: Until around two years ago the US did not share any entry data with Canada (i.e. crossing from Canada to the US via a land border). This was frustrating for Canada as they had no idea if a wanted person had left the country. Occasionally Canada would seek the info via a Canadian court order directed at CBP in the US, and almost exclusively these Canadian court orders were ignored by the US.

Around two years ago Canada and the US agreed to an instant data sharing setup, so when you cross a land border from Canada to the US CBSA knows immediately.

What IRCC does with this information is entirely up to the agent handling your application. Some may sit on it for a while, and others may kill the application after a couple of weeks. That's the risk here for you - it's all up to whimsy.
 
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armoured

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I received more or less the same advice you provide above—that is to say, the agent actually said 'we won't know if you leave the country', but that 'you shouldn't leave for long because your application could be considered abandoned'.

I'm not sure what to do with such vague advice, and it leaves me wondering, still: how much do IRCC and CBSA really communicate?

Are applications really cancelled when people travel, or is it mostly hear-say that keeps folks from travelling?
As @Underhill noted, Canada - at least CBSA - does have instantly available info, for some time now (post 9/11). More recently government has announced they do have a system in place to know about departures by air.

But you did hit on the question: how much IRCC and CBSA actually communicate. And the answer is we do not know. We know IRCC can get the information, but not clear whether they do this constantly / all the time or just when IRCC wants/needs the info. This also applies to info IRCC gets / can get from other agencies like CRA. Or whether IRCC gets info indirectly when they ask for security clearances (RCMP/CSIS etc), and how directly, and how quickly, etc. We don't know.

Agencies can share info but - if I understand the legislation - they have to either have a reason or an info-sharing agreement in place. Even if they have legal authority to get information, it makes a big difference whether (for example) they can look it up themselves with a few keystrokes or have to fill out a form or can only ask for precise information and not 'all info.' (Privacy restrictions are taken seriously). And what's true today may not be tomorrow - if there's a technological / data gap and they fix it somehow, the situation can change.

A lot of info here is somewhat anecdotal - IRCC does sometimes find out people are not in Canada when they're supposed to be, and that has negative consequences (apps are cancelled/deemed abandoned); a lot of people 'get away with it' (apps are not cancelled but we don't know the reasons why in one case and not another); and this is a social network, not a database of all cases and so no-one knows. The law in some cases (IRCC laws that is) leave a fair amount of discretion - i.e. an individual must be 'resident' in Canada but the precise meaning is not defined.

(Also gcms notes from any source may not tell the whole story - what's a "record" and does agency A have to tell you what agency B has on you is not clear; do they have to report on records they know exist or do they have to 'own' the record to disclose it?)

In practical terms: we don't know if IRCC habitually checks this info, or just sometimes; if they only do it at certain stages in the process ("is the applicant in Canada today?"), nor if they usually spend a lot of time considering whether an applicant/sponsor "is resident in Canada" (today? habitually? do they have a good reason?) to make a reasoned judgment; or if they only look for this info and decide if there are 'other problems/questions' (undefined) with the sponsor/applicant file overall.

And again in practical terms: they literally could turn a switch tomorrow and decide to be much more strict. (Either because it becomes less costly to look into the issue, i.e. a technical fix is found, or because the government decides "this is important and we've been too lax.") Or, to be fair, the government could decide "covid is a bloody mess and let's ignore this issue unless the applicant/sponsor is flagrantly breaking the rules.

And if they decide to be more strict or less strict, do they do so on some simple rule like "one month is fine, three months is a 'fail.'

So, you have to decide yourself. IRCC and CBSA can have different approaches (eg IRCC decides they don't care and won't check, but if CBSA doesn't let you back in the country, doesn't matter).

The 'rules of thumb' here could be wrong and no-one would ever notice or care; but if IRCC/CBSA 'catches you' (in any of the scenarios above), you may not have any real, practical recourse.

Meaning, sure, you could try to go to court, but it might cost tens of thousands of dollars and take years and still be uncertain and at that end, all you've won is the right to (effectively) re-start your application; or you could do what is often the only realistic option and just re-apply (and all you've lost is 6 to 18 months).

(Just my opinion and I could be wrong on a lot of this)
 
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Underhill

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Feb 5, 2020
312
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Vancouver, BC
But you did hit on the question: how much IRCC and CBSA actually communicate. And the answer is we do not know. We know IRCC can get the information, but not clear whether they do this constantly / all the time or just when IRCC wants/needs the info. This also applies to info IRCC gets / can get from other agencies like CRA. Or whether IRCC gets info indirectly when they ask for security clearances (RCMP/CSIS etc), and how directly, and how quickly, etc. We don't know.
Agreed. I revise my earlier "They know" statement to "They can know", or, technically, "They have the ability to know".
 
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