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Do my Job Description falls under NOC 2171

jchoudhury

Star Member
Nov 3, 2016
117
13
Dear:

I am new to this forum and Canada Immigration as well. I have in total around 4 years of experiences in IT field, where I have 3 years 10 months of experience in one company as Senior Analyst and another 6 months (still counting) experience in another company as Senior Software Developer.

However, following job description has been provided by my first employer (where I worked 3 yrs 10 months)

I. Responsible for software support, defect analysis and fixation, implementation, training to user, support on live projects.
II. Ensure business continuity as per plan, alignment with changeable business needs
III. R&D, investigation and implement prevention strategies for user identifies complaints and perform necessary actions to resolve the application problems.
IV. Data analyst & business intelligence reporting
V. Day to day communication with vendor for support management & problem resolution
VI. Ensure deliverable from vendors
VII. As product manager
a) Take ownership of the product on Regulatory, Remittance & CRM.
b) Act as knowledgeable resource for that product (Level 2 support)
c) Routine health check of the system
d) Meet SLA.
e) Staff Training & Knowledge Share/ transfer to others.


Would like to know, whether the above JD matches with NOC 2171 Information Systems Consultant or not?
 

fkl

VIP Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,351
215
Canada
Visa Office......
Inland / Previously Pak
NOC Code......
2173/4
Yeah looks good for 2171. I assume you have the required education as well i.e. at least a bachelors degree in software / telecom / info systems / it or related profession
 

epressentry

Star Member
Sep 11, 2016
153
5
Category........
Visa Office......
Unknown
NOC Code......
1122
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
April 20th 2016
Nomination.....
N/A
Med's Done....
Upfront
I highly recommend you emailing NOC team (noc@workingincanada.gc.ca, NC-NOC-CNP-GD2@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca, NC-NOC-CNP-GD@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca .... I sent an email with duties, title and education details to all three addresses; they usually reply within 1-2 business days) for confirmation as I doubt anyone here is qualified enough to advise you on the CORRECT noc code. Plus, once you get a response from NOC team, you can attach the email conversation with your reference letter confirming you did not just select a noc code on your own and a Government agency was involved.
 

jchoudhury

Star Member
Nov 3, 2016
117
13
fkl said:
Yeah looks good for 2171. I assume you have the required education as well i.e. at least a bachelors degree in software / telecom / info systems / it or related profession
Yes, I have Bachelors and Masters both in Computer Science.
 

fkl

VIP Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,351
215
Canada
Visa Office......
Inland / Previously Pak
NOC Code......
2173/4
epressentry said:
I highly recommend you emailing NOC team (noc@workingincanada.gc.ca, NC-NOC-CNP-GD2@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca, NC-NOC-CNP-GD@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca .... I sent an email with duties, title and education details to all three addresses; they usually reply within 1-2 business days) for confirmation as I doubt anyone here is qualified enough to advise you on the CORRECT noc code. Plus, once you get a response from NOC team, you can attach the email conversation with your reference letter confirming you did not just select a noc code on your own and a Government agency was involved.
Emailing them is good advice, though beyond some basic info they are also going to recommend some parameters, but you, the applicant should be the best judge of it yourself.

Regarding any one being qualified to advise or not - LOL, no offence taken or intended, but please speak only for yourself.
 

jchoudhury

Star Member
Nov 3, 2016
117
13
Thanks for your reply though. Could you please see the below JD which is provided by my present employer. Would it be sufficed to be fit in NOC 2171.

JD:

• Analyse the Business Requirements along with concern business unit.
• Reviewing current systems and Presenting ideas for system improvements, including cost proposals
• Design and development Software and Maintaining the systems once they are up and running
• Responsible for developing technical specifications and plans
• Producing detailed specifications and writing the programme codes and Perform Software testing
• Prepare Software Documentation and Preparation of training manuals for users
• Responsible for correcting software defects. And communicate with Vendors.
• Code, test and troubleshoot programs utilizing the appropriate hardware, database, and programming technology.
• Maintain and modify programs; make approved changes by amending flow charts, developing detailed programming logic, and coding changes.
• Test and develop programming modifications.
• Write new program codes using prescribed specifications.
• Database Administrations
• Analyze performance of programs and take action to correct deficiencies based on consultation with users and approval of supervisor.
• Manage IPDC Website and electronic delivery channels.
• Confer with users to gain understanding of needed changes or modifications of existing programs. Resolve questions of program intent, data input, output requirements, and inclusion of internal checks and controls.
• Preparation of training manuals for users.
• Assist personnel of other departments as a computer resource.
• Day to day support related to core system to customer end
 

kryt0n

VIP Member
Sep 30, 2014
5,426
273
NOC Code......
2172
AOR Received.
16-03-2017
Passport Req..
11-07-2017
jchoudhury said:
Thanks for your reply though. Could you please see the below JD which is provided by my present employer. Would it be sufficed to be fit in NOC 2171.

JD:

• Analyse the Business Requirements along with concern business unit.
• Reviewing current systems and Presenting ideas for system improvements, including cost proposals
• Design and development Software and Maintaining the systems once they are up and running
• Responsible for developing technical specifications and plans
• Producing detailed specifications and writing the programme codes and Perform Software testing
• Prepare Software Documentation and Preparation of training manuals for users
• Responsible for correcting software defects. And communicate with Vendors.
• Code, test and troubleshoot programs utilizing the appropriate hardware, database, and programming technology.
• Maintain and modify programs; make approved changes by amending flow charts, developing detailed programming logic, and coding changes.
• Test and develop programming modifications.
• Write new program codes using prescribed specifications.
• Database Administrations
• Analyze performance of programs and take action to correct deficiencies based on consultation with users and approval of supervisor.
• Manage IPDC Website and electronic delivery channels.
• Confer with users to gain understanding of needed changes or modifications of existing programs. Resolve questions of program intent, data input, output requirements, and inclusion of internal checks and controls.
• Preparation of training manuals for users.
• Assist personnel of other departments as a computer resource.
• Day to day support related to core system to customer end
It looks like it :D
2171 is quite a generic one - all the duties on the noc page are really general.
It all SOUNDS like 2171 so I wouldn't worry too much :)
 

monavy

Hero Member
Aug 20, 2013
322
64
@fkl

you dont require a degree in the same profession correct?
I am Commerce graduate working in IT since 13 years.

What I understand from NOC 2171 is that any degree is required not only eng/btech.
 

fkl

VIP Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,351
215
Canada
Visa Office......
Inland / Previously Pak
NOC Code......
2173/4
monavy said:
@fkl

you dont require a degree in the same profession correct?
I am Commerce graduate working in IT since 13 years.

What I understand from NOC 2171 is that any degree is required not only eng/btech.
You do require a degree in a closely related area. Following is for 2173 which is more heavy on programming experience. But mainly only leverage it gives in 2171 is list "Business Administration" as one of the prospective areas.

"Employment requirements

A bachelor's degree, usually in computer science, computer systems engineering, software engineering or mathematics
or
Completion of a college program in computer science is usually required.
A master's or doctoral degree in a related discipline may be required.
Licensing by a provincial or territorial association of professional engineers is required to approve engineering drawings and reports and to practise as a Professional Engineer (P.Eng.).
Engineers are eligible for registration following graduation from an accredited educational program, three or four years of supervised work experience in engineering, and passing a professional practice examination.
Experience as a computer programmer is usually required."


Personally i feel that 13 years of experience should compensate that and may be CIC does the same.

But we would only find out by trying. It could go either way. I cannot say with certainly they would accept a commerce degree.
 

kryt0n

VIP Member
Sep 30, 2014
5,426
273
NOC Code......
2172
AOR Received.
16-03-2017
Passport Req..
11-07-2017
fkl said:
You do require a degree in a closely related area. Following is for 2173 which is more heavy on programming experience. But mainly only leverage it gives in 2171 is list "Business Administration" as one of the prospective areas.

"Employment requirements

A bachelor's degree, usually in computer science, computer systems engineering, software engineering or mathematics
or
Completion of a college program in computer science is usually required.
A master's or doctoral degree in a related discipline may be required.
Licensing by a provincial or territorial association of professional engineers is required to approve engineering drawings and reports and to practise as a Professional Engineer (P.Eng.).
Engineers are eligible for registration following graduation from an accredited educational program, three or four years of supervised work experience in engineering, and passing a professional practice examination.
Experience as a computer programmer is usually required."


Personally i feel that 13 years of experience should compensate that and may be CIC does the same.

But we would only find out by trying. It could go either way. I cannot say with certainly they would accept a commerce degree.
CIC says education does not have to match NOC codes "suggestions". You could study astrology and get a job selling ice cream. It doesn't matter.
 

fkl

VIP Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,351
215
Canada
Visa Office......
Inland / Previously Pak
NOC Code......
2173/4
kryt0n said:
CIC says education does not have to match NOC codes "suggestions". You could study astrology and get a job selling ice cream. It doesn't matter.
I have seen exceptions to this (i.e. approving NOCs with entirely different education), but usually those were clear cases of stronger profile like years of experience in the area whose NOC was claimed.

I have never seen the converse written as clearly as mentioned above by CIC any where (i.e. study some thing else but work in another and apply for that NOC). Could you point to any such reference please?

There have been many cases (threads on this forum) where some one got a degree in say electrical engineering and was working for several years as a sales manager. CIC followed up with the applicant questioning his current job / intended area of working / as well as job experience.

At the very least they were lucky to eventually have it sorted it. I won't be comfortable with it given the description of NOCs by HRSDC explicitly saying so.
 

kryt0n

VIP Member
Sep 30, 2014
5,426
273
NOC Code......
2172
AOR Received.
16-03-2017
Passport Req..
11-07-2017
fkl said:
I have seen exceptions to this (i.e. approving NOCs with entirely different education), but usually those were clear cases of stronger profile like years of experience in the area whose NOC was claimed.

I have never seen the converse written as clearly as mentioned above by CIC any where (i.e. study some thing else but work in another and apply for that NOC). Could you point to any such reference please?

There have been many cases (threads on this forum) where some one got a degree in say electrical engineering and was working for several years as a sales manager. CIC followed up with the applicant questioning his current job / intended area of working / as well as job experience.

At the very least they were lucky to eventually have it sorted it. I won't be comfortable with it given the description of NOCs by HRSDC explicitly saying so.
Someone quotes CIC recently but I can't find it now...
 

monavy

Hero Member
Aug 20, 2013
322
64
@fkl

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/can-someone-apply-for-ee-if-experience-is-in-a-different-noc-than-education-t459434.0.html

please refer this thread.
 

fkl

VIP Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,351
215
Canada
Visa Office......
Inland / Previously Pak
NOC Code......
2173/4
monavy said:
@fkl

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/can-someone-apply-for-ee-if-experience-is-in-a-different-noc-than-education-t459434.0.html

please refer this thread.
Thanks a i went through it and i don't think i see any thing really different. Certainly not as clear / positive as the earlier comments.

I disagree with this post on that thread

Innana said:
Unless the job is regulated and requires certifications, you can have whatever degree you want to work in whatever field you like and it still counts. End of discussion.
But i agree to this (and especially value jes_ON's opinion more knowing his profile)

jes_ON said:
This is 100% true. But it is also true that if the VO has any reason to disbelieve that you are capable of performing the work you claimed, they can, and do, refuse applications.

In the OP's (friend's) case - a lot of people are self-taught in IT / software development. So it doesn't matter that the degree is not in IT.

However - imagine the other way around - a degree in IT but claiming to be a lawyer... that would not work. At all. That would in fact be fraud in most countries.
The original case referred in that thread is of electrical engineering degree doing software development job which is not only relevant, it is actually required or preferred over core CS degree in some specific software jobs such as embedded systems or hardware design related software jobs (i am well qualified to make this judgement being in the exact profession)

What i conclude from this is as follows:

It is not a deal breaker requirement to have degree in the same area. But if one has different ones, they better be relevant and make sense in some way.

If they are completely different as mentioned here earlier (study astrology and get a job selling ice cream), then it would be subject to visa officer's opinion of your over all profile. If he is convinced you make a sensible profile, he might approve it or it could be the other way round.

One thing these guys missed is that it is routinely common for people being offered lower end jobs compared to their existing profiles in say home country / out of Canada. Some level of downgrade is expected (A former bank branch head starting as accounts officer in Canada is okay, a lawyer selling ice cream is not) and CIC understands that as part of starting from scratch. But too much demotion / deviation also introduces some aspect of desperation to get here no matter what. That also raises security / illegality and a ton of other questions in visa officer's mind. He can easily say that this person is merely using this offer as means of getting to Canada and is not convinced that he would continue working on that role


Coming back to original profile listed here, BCom with 13 years of IT would fit for an IT position / NOC.
But it is probably not as clean a profile for IT on which one gets an LMIA for an IT job (2171/3/4 etc.)

The above is likely going to sail through easily. But if it was a BCom with fresh IT job offer or a year or so of experience, i can't say confidently what would happen.
 

ABC -Canada

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2017
246
1
I have a masters in business administration, but am performing more or less the same JD...Can i be eligible? Or should I focus on 0213? Where the JD is also similar to mine, and it clearly asks for "Masters in business administration?

thanks.