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Day count conventions

canadatez

Newbie
Apr 6, 2018
4
0
Hi all!

Towards Canadian citizenship qualification, one must count the days of stay in Canada.

Suppose, for the sake of my argument, my outward flight departed out of Canada leaves at 23h59 on Jan. 1, 2020 and my return flight to Canada arrived at on 00h05 on Jan. 4, 2020.

In this scenario, I was not in Canada for two (2) days, namely on Jan. 2 and 3? Is this he right understanding?

Put it differently, any minute NOT in Canada on the day counts towards one (1) absence day? If so, then the above calculation is wrong and the correct absent days are indeed four (4); Jan. 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Thanks in advance.
 

RKCK

Hero Member
Nov 2, 2015
300
69
Visa Office......
Mississauga
App. Filed.......
07-11-2015
Doc's Request.
19-02-2015 Travel History
AOR Received.
01-02-2016
Med's Done....
18-12-2015
Please remember that the departure time of your flight is not considered. The stamp on your passport by the immigration office is the date & time considered for calculation purposes.
 

jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
Please remember that the departure time of your flight is not considered. The stamp on your passport by the immigration office is the date & time considered for calculation purposes.
Are you sure? I *landed* many times more than a day after I took off. Most recent case I left Canada on a Friday, I landed in New Zealand in the Sunday. This is one of several examples.

My departure was Friday. NOT Sunday.
I don’t know how IRCC/CBP determines departure dates given there’s no exit immigration for Canada, but them getting the details from the airline and of course what you list when returning are both probable options.

But the original reply is valid. I’ve also left the US on say a Sunday and landed 1-2am Monday (both planned and unplanned due to delays). I listed my arrival as the Monday - which counted as a full day despite being in Canada for under 24h.

I’ve even done Germany-Canada-US-Canada in one day (coming off another country). I listed all the details and reasons and had zero issues.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,314
3,071
LONG RESPONSE; using the OP's query to expound on the importance of using and relying on IRCC's online physical presence calculator, and in that regard, the importance of completely and accurately providing the information.

After all, the answer to the OP's question is simple and, frankly, trite: any day a person was IN Canada is considered a day IN Canada.

AND for those who use and rely on the IRCC online presence calculator, and properly enter ALL data ACCURATELY, there is no need to read any of what I say below. SKIP the rest of this.

But what lurks behind the question, calculating CREDIT toward the grant citizenship presence requirement, is a little more complex and a bit pitfall prone.

So I elaborate . . .

Hi all!
Suppose . . . outward flight departed out of Canada leaves at 23h59 on Jan. 1, 2020 and my return flight to Canada arrived at on 00h05 on Jan. 4, 2020.

In this scenario, I was not in Canada for two (2) days, namely on Jan. 2 and 3? Is this he right understanding?
SOMEWHAT SHORT RESPONSE: Forget trying to count days. Use the online physical presence calculator.

Rely on the calculator. Enter ALL dates of exit and entry ACCURATELY. And the calculator takes care of the rest.

Big clue: IRCC relies on the online physical presence calculator for the arithmetic. In contrast, IRCC relies on the applicant to completely and accurately enter all information, including all dates of travel, UNLESS IRCC sees reason to not rely on the applicant's information, in which event things tend to get more difficult.

Date of entry into Canada depends on day the traveler is actually cleared to enter by border control. Time in queue waiting to clear customs, let alone time on the tarmac or in airspace, is not being in Canada.

Date of exit is ordinarily date a flight is scheduled to depart. Time on tarmac or in airspace is not relevant.

Eligibility for citizenship depends on number of days CREDITED as present; use online calculator. There are nuances, but the calculator handles it all so long as the applicant correctly enters all the dates.


The In-Depth Response:

I. Sidebar but important; big clue revisited:

IRCC will rely on the online physical presence calculator. Otherwise, what IRCC will mostly look for is anything that might indicate they cannot entirely rely on the information entered into the calculator . . . and that's the big tipping point: whether the data the applicant provides is perceived to be consistent with other information, including the CBSA travel history. Data good, IRCC relies on the applicant's information and the calculator's arithmetic. Including the inference the applicant was in Canada days between a known date-of-entry and next reported date-of-exit. IRCC sees reasons to question the applicant's dates, that can throw the key premise for the calculation into question. The latter is NOT a good way to go.


II. No Interpretation Necessary; Use the online calculator and get the dates accurate:

It is important to understand that NO INTERPRETATION is necessary. No understanding of the conventions required. And anyone who approaches the decision about when to apply for citizenship applying a fine-tuned, precise interpretation of the rules is missing the point. Unless they go ahead and use and RELY on the online physical present calculator anyway (and adding a buffer).

The point is to use the online physical presence calculator. To properly use the online calculator the prospective applicant needs to ACCURATELY and COMPLETELY enter all relevant information including all dates the individual exited Canada and entered Canada.

Questions about counting days relative to a particular trip? USE the ONLINE CALCULATOR.

Another big clue: the online calculator asks for DATES not TIME, using a calendar NOT a clock. Actually has a built-in calendar to use, or the prospective applicant can directly key in day/month/year.

Asking about what date be should reported for an event that occurs one minute after midnight is either overthinking things or . . . well, the date something happens is the date it happens.

The important thing is to get the dates of exit and the date of entry right, to be complete and accurate. The calculator will get the output right as long as the prospective applicant ACCURATELY and COMPLETELY reports the date for ALL trips (even a flagpole . . . even if you walk out on the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls, to get that perspective of the falls, but do not actually cross the bridge or go to the American side, even if you barely step onto the bridge and immediately turn back because the wind is bitterly cold, not a minute past the gates).

Leading to . . .
Please remember that the departure time of your flight is not considered. The stamp on your passport by the immigration office is the date & time considered for calculation purposes.
Correct intention. Missing the mark a bit in the execution.

Correct intention: Yes, dates IN Canada and dates Exiting Canada depend on when border control is passed.


II. A. Date Entering Canada:

If a PR is on a flight that lands in Canada five minutes before midnight or five hours before midnight, but for whatever reason it is not until after midnight when the PR actually goes through the border control for entering Canada, the date of entry is the date AFTER midnight. For some this will indeed be shown in a passport stamp showing the date of entry into Canada. Far more often these days returning PRs will not get an entry stamp for their return to Canada. Either way, the CBSA travel history will record the DATE of entry based on the calendar date at the time the border officer enters the traveler's entry into Canada. An hour or two on the tarmac and in line waiting to get through customs, the traveler is NOT yet IN Canada, let alone the hour or two in Canadian airspace before landing.


II. B. Date Exiting Canada:

Some international flights involve pre-boarding clearance into the destination, such as when flying to certain U.S. airports from Pearson in Toronto. When there is pre-boarding clearance, the date of entry into the U.S. is when U.S. customs is cleared. And that is the date of exit from Canada. The traveler has LEFT Canada, even though he or she is still sitting in a waiting area in the Pearson airport in Toronto. Even if the flight is delayed for hours. For travelers who are given a passport stamp, they will be given a stamp for the date they go through the pre-clearance and that is the date to report.

Other than pre-boarding clearance, such as when flying to certain U.S. airports, typically there is no precise border clearing event, since Canada does not ordinarily conduct exit control. Date of scheduled departure is probably the safest date for the traveler to report. Scheduled to depart five minutes before midnight, the date it is before midnight is probably the best date to report. Forget time sitting on the tarmac waiting to fly, let alone time in Canadian airspace.

FOR SURE, however, DO NOT RELY on entry stamps into another country to report the date of exit from Canada. Remember (except for in Canada pre-clearance), any stamp entered into a passport by another country is NOT evidence of when the PR was in Canada at all. Let alone proof of the date a PR exited Canada. As @jc94 commented, and it is often true when travel involves a Trans-Pacific flight, an entry stamp is often if not typically TWO DAYs later than the actual date of exit. Add to this the trend for not stamping passports, passport stamps are less and less an indicator of dates of exit let alone evidence. A PR traveling on a European passport, for example, traveling through Europe and then on to elsewhere, might be abroad a long time before getting an entry stamp into another country.


III. Counting Days:

As noted in short response: Eligibility for citizenship depends on number of days CREDITED as PRESENT; use online calculator. There are nuances, but the calculator handles it all so long as the applicant correctly enters all the dates.

Consider the example in the OP's query: Exit Canada Jan 1 and Re-enter Canada Jan 4. Use the online calculator. FROM date is Jan. 1, and the TO date is Jan. 4, and the calculator takes care of the details. Indeed, the calculator will not let the applicant even enter these dates unless they are within the five year eligibility period. As long as these dates are within the eligibility period, the calculator will accurately count the number of days CREDIT the applicant gets toward the grant citizenship presence requirement. Usually but NOT ALWAYS this will be two days credit. In some cases it will only be one day credit.

It will always show two days absence for these days. But the number of days absent is not what really matters. One applicant might meet the presence requirement despite a total 725 days absent during the eligibility period, while another applicant might fall short of meeting the presence requirement despite being absent from Canada 400 days during the eligibility period. Depends on whether the applicant was present in Canada with status before becoming a PR, and within the five year eligibility period. NO NEED to WORRY about such things. Just enter the information accurately, including information about status as well as dates, and the online calculator figures it all out. Easy to know that days IN Canada before becoming a PR (but still within the five year eligibility period) count as a HALF day. Good to know. BUT let the online calculator figure out the details.
 
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