Correct me if I am wrong.

[Christoph100]

Hi all,
My wife went for her medical Saturday in BKK (YAY right? nope another possible set back ), It was found that her blood pressure is high. They tested it several times. She has been given a BP monitor for 24hrs and is going back to the hospital Sunday. She was told that she will not be given "medical clearance to continue the application process unless her BP is shown back to normal levels. We think it may be elevated just due to the stress and nervousness of the tests.

It is my understanding that the medical team does not have the right to deny clearance that it is up to CIC?

Is there a Thai law that exists that if something is found of concern to the medical team that they do not have to upload the results? Is there a Thai law that will prevent us from continuing application for sponsorship due to medical results?

I ask as Thai law can be interpreted and enforced in ways that can make things very difficult to accomplish.
Example: as some of you already know... The Royal Thai Police would not allow my wife to even apply for her police clearance unless I was there at the same time as the application was being done.

Example2: For our marriage we required Thai witnesses, The Registrar of Marriages would not permit non Thai witness even if fluent in Thai.

Needless to say showing through the above examples that things are enforced differently there, Both my wife and I are worried.

Thanks
Chris.

 

[Rob_TO]

It is my understanding that the medical team does not have the right to deny clearance that it is up to CIC?

Exactly. The doctors do the tests, and just forward the results to CIC RMO (Regional Medical Office). Only if the RMO decides more tests are needed, they will specifically request from the doctor. The doctor has NO right to request additional tests on their own or decline to forward the results, only except in cases where they could not properly get a reading (i.e. if a blood sample was contaminated so they had to take a new sample)

Sounds like the hospital is scamming you to get more money. I would demand they forward the results as-is to the RMO, and then report them to CIC.

Blood pressure is not even important when it comes to spousal sponsorship. Basically only contagious/infectious diseases can stop an application.

Read here for more about Furtherance Process (when RMOs request more info): http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLish/resources/publications/dmp-handbook/index.asp#chap4.10
Note it always starts with "The RMO issues a client letter..."

 

[jo-macral]

I agree with Rob_TO. We went to B N H Hospital in BKK to do our tests, and they refused to send our results until my wife's UTI was resolved (with overnight stay required in the hospital with monitoring to be exact). We told them to forget it, and send the file as-is. They refused, and required us to come in for another test the next day (at no cost, and without hospital stay) which we did, and then I again enforced the fact that CIC does not care about a UTI, and to send the results as-is. Reluctantly, they did and was (as suspected) approved by CIC without issues.

Just put your foot down, and tell them to do their job. They cannot hold back submitting your results, and if they are found to, I am sure the CIC will remove them as a doctor to use they found out.

For us, this was a remed, and they (most conveniently) took our form needed to do the medical, so we had no choice but to continue using them. I am just glad things worked out.

What hospital did you use?

 

[Christoph100]

Ok thank you nice to hear a little bit of good news. I will call my wife just before she leaves to go and bring the monitor back to the hospital and tell her to tell them to upload the results as is.

Oh Same hospital as you JO ...BNH

sorry what is UTI ??
Chris.

 

[Rob_TO]

They refused, and required us to come in for another test the next day (at no cost, and without hospital stay)

Since they didn't charge you, at least this is most likely not a scam, and the hospital is simply misinformed as to the proper procedures.

I would still file an official complaint to CIC about this, so at least they can correct the hospital on correct procedure so more people don't run into the same issue.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Since they didn't charge you, at least this is most likely not a scam, and the hospital is simply misinformed as to the proper procedures.

I would still file an official complaint to CIC about this, so at least they can correct the hospital on correct procedure so more people don't run into the same issue.

Did it ever occur to you that the spouse has a medical condition and that the Dr. is doing his job to determine whether the HPB is a symptom of a problem? The Dr. probably doesn't really care about the Immigration aspects, s/he is more interested in finding out if there are any problems.

 

[jo-macral]

Good luck, and hope things go well. I went with my wife which helped enforce the idea, but they will do it if told too. (they legally have to).

PMM, they can send the results, then keep her for more tests if she desires (since this is not a CIC required test, she can decline and go to a local clinic which would be cheaper). This same thing happened to us, and is simply a scare tactic to get extra testing done (and money) that isn't necessary for the medical. BNH doctors know full well what the CIC needs and expects.

Our doctor said she wanted a "perfect" file to go back to CIC, but that isn't necessary, especially for Family Class.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi


Did it ever occur to you that the spouse has a medical condition and that the Dr. is doing his job to determine whether the HPB is a symptom of a problem? The Dr. probably doesn't really care about the Immigration aspects, s/he is more interested in finding out if there are any problems.

Yes, but then they can send the medical result to RMO anyways to satisfy immigration, and follow up with you separately afterwards if they are so concerned.

There is ZERO reason to hold up the immigration process in this case. They are not following proper procedure, it's as simple as that. Also any concern over a health problem they would request you to get more tests done, not force you to by holding your results hostage.

 

[on-hold]

There are three questions here, only one of which is really related to immigration. That one is pretty simple to resolve -- yes, the doctor should send your file to immigration without kibbitzing. Personally, I would suspect however that high blood pressure, high enough to warrant a monitor, is also high enough for CIC to investigate further. HBP is a serious condition, that can be both a symptom of other serious (and expensive) conditions, and itself lead to more serious (and expensive) conditions. If you let the doctors do what they want and then they send a 'clean' file to Singapore, I would consider you to be in their debt.

The second question is what you can do -- in Thai society a doctor is like a god, only somewhat more powerful. They will likely see their role as that of consultant or gatekeeper, and not as a paid expert performing a routine task. Deal with that as you will, it can be extremely difficult to insist on what you see as your right.

The third question is that of your wife's health. I'm not a medical expert, but I doubt that the stress of a family immigration application -- which should not be that stressful, as you point out -- is enough to send your wife's blood pressure high into the danger zone. Presumably the monitor will shed some light on this, but I wouldn't think of it as something that is simply a formal obstacle to be surmounted. Thai clinics are of extremely low quality, they lack any sort of formal control and they normally choose treatment options that maximize their profit -- diagnosis and prescriptions are both subsumed to this, which I have seen personally when treating infant diarrhea. Going to a clinic for a profound, systemic problem like high blood pressure is extremely inadvisable.

 

[Christoph100]

The second question is what you can do -- in Thai society a doctor is like a god, only somewhat more powerful. They will likely see their role as that of consultant or gatekeeper, and not as a paid expert performing a routine task. Deal with that as you will, it can be extremely difficult to insist on what you see as your right.

Exactly what I have learn't about Thai society those who have any power can and do hold things over you.
I will tell my wife to insist they still submit the results anyway. I just hope they do. otherwise I might be the one packing my bags.

Chris

 

[Rob_TO]

Personally, I would suspect however that high blood pressure, high enough to warrant a monitor, is also high enough for CIC to investigate further. HBP is a serious condition, that can be both a symptom of other serious (and expensive) conditions, and itself lead to more serious (and expensive) conditions. If you let the doctors do what they want and then they send a 'clean' file to Singapore, I would consider you to be in their debt.

Remember that cost and excessive demand is irrelevant to a spousal application. If a condition, no matter how expensive it is to treat, is not contagious or poses a danger to public health, then the RMOs should not really care too much about it. Perhaps the doctors there mainly deal with PR apps that do deal with excessive demand, in which case the need for a "clean" report is much more important, and don't quite realize that spousal apps aren't the same. Heck so many panel physicians around the world don't even know the difference between an up-front medical and one requested by CIC... I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the case.

By all means though I agree it can potentially be a serious concern, so would continue any additional tests independent of the immigration procedure.

Also there are many doctors/clinics out there (in any country) that are not exactly the most honest or moral. Some will try to take advantage where they can to get people to spend more money then they need to, hoping they are ignorant of the rules. Not saying that is the case here and it simply could be a misunderstanding of procedure... but it is something that should cause people to ask questions.

 

[on-hold]

Remember that cost and excessive demand is irrelevant to a spousal application. If a condition, no matter how expensive it is to treat, is not contagious or poses a danger to public health, then the RMOs should not really care too much about it. Perhaps the doctors there mainly deal with PR apps that do deal with excessive demand, in which case the need for a "clean" report is much more important, and don't quite realize that spousal apps aren't the same. Heck so many panel physicians around the world don't even know the difference between an up-front medical and one requested by CIC... I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the case.

By all means though I agree it can potentially be a serious concern, so would continue any additional tests independent of the immigration procedure.

Also there are many doctors/clinics out there (in any country) that are not exactly the most honest or moral. Some will try to take advantage where they can to get people to spend more money then they need to, hoping they are ignorant of the rules. Not saying that is the case here and it simply could be a misunderstanding of procedure... but it is something that should cause people to ask questions.

You're completely right, and it makes the hold-up inexcusable. Also, there is no way that they are not used to processing family aps, since Thailand is not a major source of employment-related applications (the English standards of the country are too abysmal) -- practically everyone who applies from there is a family-class applicant.

 

[Hasan9999]

You may insist sending report as it is to CIC but if it is me I would hold my application and right away address this major health issue for undergoing effective treatment. Life is fragile and better not ignore. My mom died at the age of only 35 suffering from hypertension.

 

[jo-macral]

There is no reason to delay her application, but I do agree she should continue treatment after it has been sent. The doctors in BNH are very good, and know full well what the CIC requirements are for family visas - there is no reason to delay submitting the medicals if not completely necessary.

 

[Christoph100]

Yes I agree too however they should not have refused to submit the results Saturday.
Its also possible too that there BP test is faulty..She had many checks and none were the same all were high so maybe its the wrong cuff size or some other issue with the test.IE.fixed so she can pay more. Im sure they did not hook her up to a monitor free of charge. I could be wrong on that too tho.

Chris