Conjugal or Common-law..?

[gummyfish]

I'm considering sponsoring my girlfriend to Canada but not sure if I should be going the conjugal or common-law route. From what I've read/seen on here conjugal has a high risk of being rejected unless you have a fairly solid case.

My situation:
We've been seeing each other exclusively over the past 5 years, with just under 2 years total of time spent living together.

During the first 4 years we were both busy with our schooling which prevented us from living with each other but we visited at least once a year for a duration of 2-3 weeks at a time. Since I finished school 1 year before her, I moved in with her for 10 months, and this past year, she's come to live with me on a open work visa for a year in Canada. Originally we were hoping to get her work visa extended so she can stay longer (and perhaps apply for permanent residence in the future), however she's been having a very difficult time finding a job and her time is slowly running out. Because we've both used up our '1 time only' visas offered by both our countries, we would no longer be able to live with each other past the 3 month 'visitation' period when her visa expires. That's when I decided I wish to sponsor her stay here so we can move forward with our future together.

Unfortunately, we don't really have much that officially documents us being together (such as joint bank accounts, insurance beneficiaries) besides that she is listed as living at my address, but we have multiple photos/chat logs/emails/tickets/passport stamps that proves that we have been in an relationship together and have been seeing each other for a few years now. I could set up joint bank accounts ASAP and use that as proof, but won't that look fishy to the officer when I apply for sponsorship 1 month later?

I'm thinking conjugal is the route to take because we haven't been able to officially live together for 1 year continuously (common-law requirement) at the time of applying.

Thoughts/advice?

 

[iarblue]

Well seeing as you have lived together in the past for almose two years and you have been with eachother again at the same address for 10 months and you have all that proof,why not common-law.
Submitt your app as common law and apply for a visitors visa witha 6 month stay on it as you are still trying to find a job to extend her work permit.If she is not given a work visa or a visitors visa before it expires then she will be out of status,if you apply to sponsor before the permits expire i heard she can stay here out of ststus while the app is in process.
If it is refused then she must leave.
Ask leon or PMM about the out of status part.

 

[gummyfish]

Common-law seems appropriate, but:

You are a common-law partner—either of the opposite sex or same sex—if:
• you have been living together in a conjugal relationship for at least one year in a continuous 12-month period that was not interrupted. (You are allowed short absences for business travel or family reasons, however.)

.. and we have NOT lived together for longer than 1 year continuously yet unfortunately, just as a total when you take all the trips/long visitation periods in consideration. I doubt it would work.


Meanwhile, conjugal seemed to match my situation a little better:

You may apply as a conjugal partner if:
• you can provide evidence there was a reason you could not live together (for example, you were refused long-term stays in each other’s country).

..since we both can no longer get working holiday program visas (you can only get one once), and a work visa is very difficult to obtain for her (she is a web designer and it seems an LMO is unlikely to obtain since there are tons of Canadian web designers out there).

I suppose we could try and get her an extended visitor visa when her open work visa expires, that way she's been living with me for a year and then apply AFTER (if I apply now, we've only been living together 10 months with her being here) - would this be more of an appropriate route to take?

 

[iarblue]

Well you can apply for the visitors visa but she will be out of status i think before it comes.you have two months to wait,and i think it says you have to be living together one consecutive year but i dont think it says right before you apply,if you could get proof of you being together for the 2 years from before and explain why you only have 10 months this time but are now living together and plan to marry.

 

[Yullover]

It's clearly said for the conjugal parter, that if you apply to this category you need to proof the reason why YOU CAN'T get married or be in common law...

I don't see in your case why you can't get married ?

 

[sbwv09]

Yullover is right.. conjugal is the hardest category to get into. You basically have to be in a place where your marriage would be illegal (same sex, no divorce allowed, etc). CIC doesn't really care if you couldn't live together for a year because of job, studies, finances, or any of those kind of reasons. I think your best bet is just get married and apply that way, or wait until you can live together for a year.

 

[gummyfish]

Honestly, why get married when your significant other can't be with you? It's emotionally stressful, especially after having to say goodbye to your loved one so many times in the past couple years. And although I wish it had some impact and might help a tiny bit, having a piece of paper isn't going to guarantee her a spot in Canada.

Does this make me less of a committed person in a relationship because I feel this way?

I do plan on marrying in the future, I just prefer to marry when we both free from the tearful goodbyes and have confidence in an uninterrupted future together.

Marriage shouldn't be a major deciding factor on how committed you are to your significant other - I just hate the fact that they try to ram it down your throat a little, like you HAVE to get married if you can. Its a personal choice, in my opinion.

 

[sbwv09]

And although I wish it had some impact and might help a tiny bit, having a piece of paper isn't going to guarantee her a spot in Canada.

But that's what we're telling you, it DOES have an impact. If you can't live together for 12 months in a row, that is the only way to do it. There are many people who went into the process feeling the way you do who ended up getting turned down and just had to get married and reapply. Even common law relationships are looked at more closely than spousal applications. They are much more likely to have to interview.

I married my husband and we still live apart. I did this because I love him and I want to show the world that I want to spend the rest of my life with him. Although it's hard to be apart, the distance doesn't negate the fact in any way, or make our commitment any less powerful or true.

I'm not saying get married if you aren't ready, but you need to understand how the process works. Conjugal class is NOT for people who can't live together or get married because they aren't ready, because a work visa didn't work out, or any reason like that. CIC really doesn't care at all. It has to be some huge reason, like same sex in a country that doesn't allow that relationship, or something like that.

I'm not saying I agree with the way it is, but this is the way it is.

 

[AllisonVSC]

I suggest you try to extend her visit after her work permit expires, then apply common law. It will take some time to process the extension, last I looked it was over 100 days (but that was last summer) during which time she will have implied status and can remain in Canada until a decision is made. Implied status alone should get you to the 12 month mark you need, but I would start gathering the evidence for your common-law PR app NOW. It can take weeks, even months, to pull all the pieces together. You should try to have it ready to mail on the date you reach 1 year continuous living together. Also, go ahead and open those joint accounts and do the insurance beneficiary stuff (even if it is only a small and temporary policy) as they will help establish you as a couple.

I did the outland US/CAN conjugal partner route - and I don't see how (from your original post) you will be able to adequately prove the level of "interdependence" that CIC is looking for in this category. Also, in a later post you mention that you intend to marry in the future and CIC will not approve you as conjugal partners if they know that is the case...they will expect you to go ahead and marry before applying. And for the others following this post, while it is a harder case to prove conjugal partners, it is not impossible. I was approved in less than 3 months in the conjugal partner category. We are a hetero USA/CAN couple, both divorced, in a relationship since 2004, no impediments to marry and until recently no intention to marry. But, maybe next year....

 

[sbwv09]

Allison, I'm glad you had a happy outcome, but very often the case is as I explained before. I've seen a lot of cases on here and another forum where the couples were turned down for the reasons I stated earlier. I just feel that it's a much better chance of getting approved if you are common law or married. It's already a hard process, why make it harder?

 

[journeyman]

Hi Gummyfish,

I tried to sponsor my now spouse to join my in Canada from the US last year under conjugal partner. We thought we had a very strong case for why we could not meet common law (he at one point had to sign a form saying he was voluntarily choosing to leave Canada and would not try to re-enter), they said this would not appear on his record and he was therefore allowed to apply to be sponsored with no penalty, but that ended the ability to meet common law status. At the time I was legally separated but still in the waiting period before being able to go through the divorce period. So we couldn't legally marry. We both did not want to wait the time it would take for the divorce, marriage process or the time it would take for me to get a U.S. visa to meet common-law status in the U.S before applying for PR. So applied as conjugal. After a lengthy process we were refused and the refusal letter said "you have failed to prove that your relationship is more than a long distance dating arrangement". We had tons of documentation, budgets, financial records, cards, emails, photos, letter from friends, family, ....... etc. only to be told we were nothing more than a long distance dating arrangement.

Needless to say we were crushed. After realizing the length of time the appeal would take and that conjugal is rarely accepted, I went through the divorce waiting period, we are now married and our application was recieved by CPC-M on April 15th. Hopefully we will be successful this time. But if I knew what we were about to go through the first time, then, we would never have spent the time and money on a conjugal application and would have waited until we could get marred. We made the process approximatly 15 months longer by going the way we did.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[AllisonVSC]

Allison, I'm glad you had a happy outcome, but very often the case is as I explained before. I've seen a lot of cases on here and another forum where the couples were turned down for the reasons I stated earlier. I just feel that it's a much better chance of getting approved if you are common law or married. It's already a hard process, why make it harder?

As you can see from my post, I agree with you. This couple should not try conjugal partner, and most couples are "better off" as you say going for a more conventional category. But, I have been an avid reader/participant of this forum since I found it (just after we submitted our app) and a reader in another immigration forum, particularly those posts regarding conjugal partners. A lot of people say..."I've seen a lot of cases", but in my forum reading I have NOT seen a lot of posts from actual applicants who were refused...journeyman's post in this thread is one of those few. The issue for conjugal partners is the heavy burden of proof needed to demonstrate that the level of interdependency is marriage-like...hence journeyman's problem (though any hint that they applied conjugal partner due to not wanting to wait for divorce would be a red flag).

Note the "Who Can Apply" section of the cic website states Relationships that are not eligible

You cannot be sponsored as a spouse, a common-law partner or a conjugal partner if:...you (or your sponsor) were married to someone else at the time of your marriage The wording is off for conjugal partners...but I think the intent is clear...you can not sponsor/be sponsored if you are in another relationship at the time of application (unless there is no legal way to divorce)


Please feel free to send me links to other threads you have seen regarding refusals in this category. I just want people to know that you don't have to be from a country where divorce and homosexuality are illegal to qualify as conjugal partners, though I understand that the intent of CIC was to help couples with these issues when the category was created.

 

[sbwv09]

Here's a recent thead http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t39099.0.html

Most of the ones I saw were on another forum which is offline for the moment. On there, even some common law people were turned away and had to reapply as a married couple. I didn't make my last post to contradict you, but just to point out that, from what I've read on here and other forums, conjugal is very difficult to get into and it's not the best way to try to come to Canada. If I was in that situation, I would want to know. I know I'm NOT anywhere close to an expert and you do have first hand experience that I don't, but from the other similar threads I've seen, the experts always say the same thing about conjugal..

But I'm not trying to bring people down.. just spreading some of the knowledge I picked up I'm not afraid to say I'm wrong and I wish the OP the best of luck whichever path they choose.

 

[journeyman]

Hi there, it's me again.

Allison, I just wanted to clarify. When my husband was turned back from the border, we were advised by the IO at the Immigration office where they decided not to allow his visit, that we should apply under the conjugal partner category, since we did qualify. They were the officers, we trusted them.

In addition, the refusal letter, stated that it was understood that we were not in a position to legally marry due to my status, that was not a reason to be turned down, but they saw no barriers to common-law as an alternative and that conjugal was not strong enough.

Bottom line, the advice by the border officers, while well meaning, bears no weight with the Buffalo office. We were not even granted an interview to clarify or prove our commitment. To meet common law was no longer available to us by him coming here, and since I need health care, we could not afford for me to go there, even if we chose to wait the almost 2 years for me to get a visa to do that. None of that, as they stated in their letter, is their problem. They stated our choices were to pursue common law or marriage.

 

[Siouxie]

As you can see from my post, I agree with you. This couple should not try conjugal partner, and most couples are "better off" as you say going for a more conventional category. But, I have been an avid reader/participant of this forum since I found it (just after we submitted our app) and a reader in another immigration forum, particularly those posts regarding conjugal partners. A lot of people say..."I've seen a lot of cases", but in my forum reading I have NOT seen a lot of posts from actual applicants who were refused...journeyman's post in this thread is one of those few. The issue for conjugal partners is the heavy burden of proof needed to demonstrate that the level of interdependency is marriage-like...hence journeyman's problem (though any hint that they applied conjugal partner due to not wanting to wait for divorce would be a red flag).

Note the "Who Can Apply" section of the cic website states Relationships that are not eligible

You cannot be sponsored as a spouse, a common-law partner or a conjugal partner if:...you (or your sponsor) were married to someone else at the time of your marriage The wording is off for conjugal partners...but I think the intent is clear...you can not sponsor/be sponsored if you are in another relationship at the time of application (unless there is no legal way to divorce)


Please feel free to send me links to other threads you have seen regarding refusals in this category. I just want people to know that you don't have to be from a country where divorce and homosexuality are illegal to qualify as conjugal partners, though I understand that the intent of CIC was to help couples with these issues when the category was created.

Your comment that you cannot sponsor / be sponsored if you are in another relationship at the time of application is incorrect.

According to the manual IP08 (applications for Common-law or spouse in Canada) you can be sponsored as a common law partner (providing you meet the 1 year criteria) even if your partner is still married. However, the sponsor can never sponsor their legal husband/wife at a later date.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip08-eng.pdf

5.24. Sponsor or common-law partners still married to someone else

Persons who are married to third parties may be considered common-law partners provided their marriage has broken down and they have cohabited in a conjugal relationship with the commonlaw partner for at least one year.

Cohabitation with a common-law partner must have started after a physical separation from the spouse. Evidence of separation from the spouse may include:

• a separation agreement;
• a signed formal declaration that the marriage has ended and that the person has entered into a common-law relationship;
• a court order regarding custody of children; and
• documents removing the legally married spouse(s) from insurance policies or wills as beneficiaries.



In this situation, the legal spouse of the principal applicant cannot subsequently be sponsored as a member of the family class.