Citizenship Through Descent - Armed Forces and/or birth - a long time ago

[rick876]

Hi,

I hoping someone will be able to give me some advise on my scenario. I may be clutching at straws, but there’s a few twists in this tale - Great Grandfather moved from UK and lived in Canada and joined Canadian Armed Services and Grandmother born in Canada.. before moving back to UK as a child. Wondered if either would / could possibly help me apply for Canadian citizenship…

Here’s the history:

1910 - Great Grandfather moved to Canada with Great Grandmother (both British subjects, ~30 years old at the time) to start a new life.

1914 - Great Grandfather joined Canadian Expeditionary Force and went to Europe to fight in World War I. I only mention this date as from what I understand, under the Canadian Immigration Act (1910) he (and his wife, my great grandmother) should have been deemed Canadian citizens as they were now domiciled in Canada for more than 3 years by this point (I think the 3 year requirement increased to 5 years from 1914 onward).

1915 - January - Grandmother born in Canada; 1915 - April - Great Grandfather killed in Europe as part of Canadian Expeditionary Force. I mention this just in case it helps to deal with the "first generation abroad" restriction and the exception about being born overseas but if your grandparent was working overseas then that limitation falls away.

1920 - Grandmother (aged 5-ish) moves back to UK and in the mid 1940s marries a Briton. My Grandmother always referred to being born in Canada and felt a closeness to Canada, but as far as I know, she only ever got a British passport and never really thought about Canadian citizenship - the world was very different back then!

1948 - my father is born (in UK)

1974 - I'm born (in UK)


The overriding question is, is there any way I could apply for Canadian citizenship? My two approaches were:

(i) I wondered if my dad could get Canadian citizenship and overcome the "1 generation" limit because his grandfather (my great grandfather) was working for the Canadian armed services overseas when his Canadian mother (my grandmother) was born. Then, would that mean I could apply for Canadian citizenship because my dad is Canadian...?

(ii) Alternatively, putting my great grandfather to one side, I'm guessing my UK-born-father could apply for Canadian citizenship as his mother (my grandmother) was born in Canada, but I couldn't as I would be second generation...? :-(

A little long winded - I know my dad thought about applying years ago, but I think the rules were different then so he couldn't. Anyway, it might be a long shot, but thought I would ask the experts on here.

Thanks in advance!

 

[hawk39]

Hi,

I hoping someone will be able to give me some advise on my scenario. I may be clutching at straws, but there’s a few twists in this tale - Great Grandfather moved from UK and lived in Canada and joined Canadian Armed Services and Grandmother born in Canada.. before moving back to UK as a child. Wondered if either would / could possibly help me apply for Canadian citizenship…

Here’s the history:

1910 - Great Grandfather moved to Canada with Great Grandmother (both British subjects, ~30 years old at the time) to start a new life.

1914 - Great Grandfather joined Canadian Expeditionary Force and went to Europe to fight in World War I. I only mention this date as from what I understand, under the Canadian Immigration Act (1910) he (and his wife, my great grandmother) should have been deemed Canadian citizens as they were now domiciled in Canada for more than 3 years by this point (I think the 3 year requirement increased to 5 years from 1914 onward).

1915 - January - Grandmother born in Canada; 1915 - April - Great Grandfather killed in Europe as part of Canadian Expeditionary Force. I mention this just in case it helps to deal with the "first generation abroad" restriction and the exception about being born overseas but if your grandparent was working overseas then that limitation falls away.

1920 - Grandmother (aged 5-ish) moves back to UK and in the mid 1940s marries a Briton. My Grandmother always referred to being born in Canada and felt a closeness to Canada, but as far as I know, she only ever got a British passport and never really thought about Canadian citizenship - the world was very different back then!

1948 - my father is born (in UK)

1974 - I'm born (in UK)


The overriding question is, is there any way I could apply for Canadian citizenship? My two approaches were:

(i) I wondered if my dad could get Canadian citizenship and overcome the "1 generation" limit because his grandfather (my great grandfather) was working for the Canadian armed services overseas when his Canadian mother (my grandmother) was born. Then, would that mean I could apply for Canadian citizenship because my dad is Canadian...?

(ii) Alternatively, putting my great grandfather to one side, I'm guessing my UK-born-father could apply for Canadian citizenship as his mother (my grandmother) was born in Canada, but I couldn't as I would be second generation...? :-(

A little long winded - I know my dad thought about applying years ago, but I think the rules were different then so he couldn't. Anyway, it might be a long shot, but thought I would ask the experts on here.

Thanks in advance!

The Crown Servant/Armed Forces exception only extends to the second generation from the ancestor that served; unfortunately I think you would be considered to be third generation in relation to your great-grandfather (if he had lived to become a Canadian citizen with the 1947 Act), and ineligible for citizenship by descent under the exception.

Today, your father is eligible for citizenship by descent because of the 2009 Act, giving/restoring citizenship to "Lost Canadians". You father, when he was born in 1948 and under the 1947 Act, was not given citizenship when he was born because only Canadian men could pass down citizenship to their children. Unfortunately, the 2009 Act also implemented the first generation rule to citizenship by descent, and this would make you ineligible as the second generation under your grandmother.

Sorry, but I don't think there is a way you can claim citizenship by descent at this time.

 

[rick876]

Hawk39 - Thank you so much for your reply & information. It’s a bit disappointing (selfishly! as I'd really like to move to Canada and it'd have bene the easiest way, but hey-ho) but I really appreciate it and would prefer to know from the outset.

- Out of interest, would my great-grandfather not be considered to be a Canadian as he was domiciled there for the 3-5 years required back in 1910? You seem to indicate he would have to have been there / alive in 1947, that’s what i’m a bit confused with.

- in terms of my dad getting Canadian citizenship, my 1 question is that I don’t think my grandmother ever applied to be Canadian - she was born in Canada and lived there for 5-ish years, but as far as I know, never applied for any official Canadian citizenship. Is that an unsurmountable issue? If it’s not, then my dad has said he’s happy to apply just in case they change the rules again and get rid of the 1-generation limit which would allow me to apply (maybe, change it to be more like Ireland) - he’s a great dad! A long shot, but nothing to lose.

 

[hawk39]

Out of interest, would my great-grandfather not be considered to be a Canadian as he was domiciled there for the 3-5 years required back in 1910? You seem to indicate he would have to have been there / alive in 1947, that’s what i’m a bit confused with.

The 1947 Act is regarded as when Canadian citizenship was defined and separate from British nationality law. I assumed that your great-grandfather intended to return to Canada to permanently reside after completing his service. The 1947 Act would have given him Canadian citizenship at its commencement under 9(1)(b), as a British Subject with Canadian domicile [defined as permanent residence for five years prior to commencement; 2(j)].

in terms of my dad getting Canadian citizenship, my 1 question is that I don’t think my grandmother ever applied to be Canadian - she was born in Canada and lived there for 5-ish years, but as far as I know, never applied for any official Canadian citizenship. Is that an unsurmountable issue?

In a nutshell, under the current Citizenship Act, by virtue of having been born on Canadian soil, your grandmother is an automatic Canadian citizen today. The only reason that this would not be true is if she had formally and voluntarily renounced it to Canadian officials as an adult. Without more details about how and when she acquired her British citizenship, my best guess is that she is also a "Lost Canadian" and had her citizenship restored by the 2009 or 2015 Act, so your father would have been granted Canadian citizenship by descent under the same act.

 

[rick876]

Ah, ok - thank-you (and for the links!) - massively appreciate the information. Thanks

 

[siamu]

It appears your father can get Canadian citizenship. So if he does, wouldn't you then be eligible to get Canadian citizenship because your father is Canadian?

 

[Aby444]

Is there any reason you cannot just apply for express entry? The wait times for restoring Canadian citizenship (if its valid) are pretty long. Compared to the different streams of express entry which are about 6 months on average.

 

[scylla]

It appears your father can get Canadian citizenship. So if he does, wouldn't you then be eligible to get Canadian citizenship because your father is Canadian?

No - that's not how it works.

 

[21Goose]

Is there any reason you cannot just apply for express entry? The wait times for restoring Canadian citizenship (if its valid) are pretty long. Compared to the different streams of express entry which are about 6 months on average.

OP is 45 so will lose a lot of points.

 

[hawk39]

It appears your father can get Canadian citizenship. So if he does, wouldn't you then be eligible to get Canadian citizenship because your father is Canadian?

The current Citizenship act only grants citizenship by descent to the first generation born abroad to a natural-born or naturalized Canadian. If this first generation citizen by descent has children born outside of Canada, the children would be deemed to be the second generation born abroad, and they can not derive citizenship by descent from their parent (i.e. the first generation).

• In the OP's case, his grandmother was the natural-born Canadian, so her British-born child (i.e. OP's father) is the first generation born outside of Canada, and can derive his citizenship by descent from her.
• The OP himself is the British-born child of a first generation citizen by descent (i.e. the second generation born outside of Canada).
• Because of the rule limiting citizenship by descent to only the first generation (i.e. OP's father), the OP can not derive citizenship by descent from his father because he (i.e. the OP) is the second generation born outside of Canada.

 

[itsmyid]

Is there any reason you cannot just apply for express entry? The wait times for restoring Canadian citizenship (if its valid) are pretty long. Compared to the different streams of express entry which are about 6 months on average.

Let’s be realistic, most people asking this question don’t really have the intention to move to Canada , but rather the idea of having a plan B, in case something happens it’d be nice to have a Canadian status to fall back on. EE are for people who actually plan to, or already live in Canada