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Citizenship application for children

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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I'm curious if you've advanced at all with this? I know you are alread in Canada, have you been able to fast track your children's citizenship? I'll be looking at doing the same whenever my PR comes through.
I have submitted the citizenship app for the minor child, yes, based on my understanding that no requirement to meet the 1095 days, just needs to be physically resident. Have not yet received aor or other correspondence.

I wanted to opt for the not required oath ceremony but decided that might mean delays.

The other children are no longer minors so will have to go the regular process.

So apart from applying by submitting the paperwork, nothing to report.
 
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armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
15,364
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Have not yet received aor or other correspondence.
...
So apart from applying by submitting the paperwork, nothing to report.
I just received the application returned as incomplete because "photocopies of the child's identity documents are missing or are illegible."

I'm rather angry about this because we had copies of two foreign passports and I rather logically (at least it seems to me) thought that this would cover the identification requirements nicely. (The instructions say, in two different sections, *photocopies of bio page of all valid and expired Passports/Travel Documents for [time periods]; and, *Photocopy of two pieces of personal identification [one of which that's accepted is passport with photo.] Since we had two passports attached, bizarre they didn't accept.

I could argue the point since we did meet the requirements but frankly will just return with the new, additional identification we have accumulated since applying.

Anyway, warning to others who may be applying this way - do NOT assume that if passport is included in the package that IRCC will also consider this the other piece of ID. (Although it's possible the issue with ours was two passports)
 
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armoured

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Finally received response from IRCC on the citizenship app - seems a bog-standard AOR, including non-applicable stuff like the possible need for citizenship test (not applicable for this minor anyway).

So two months to AOR (four and a half months if you include the returned step).

And so it goes...
 

expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
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App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
Finally received response from IRCC on the citizenship app - seems a bog-standard AOR, including non-applicable stuff like the possible need for citizenship test (not applicable for this minor anyway).

So two months to AOR (four and a half months if you include the returned step).

And so it goes...
Good to know, if they did their job well they'd expedite the application given that their don't seem to be any particular requirements that need to be met in your case (other than filling out the documents).
 
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armoured

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Good to know, if they did their job well they'd expedite the application given that their don't seem to be any particular requirements that need to be met in your case (other than filling out the documents).
Yeah, though I'm not holding my breath for that. To be fair, it's not a critical thing for us, and I'd put citizenshp for those born abroad and getting temp passports etc at far higher priority.

But seriously, it's nuts. I mean, it's such a long process that you wonder - if the citizen-parent passes away during the process, does the child's right to citizenship 'expire' too?

My guess is that technically, yes. Okay, the kid could qualify in a few years anyway by/including the residency requirement.

But it's insane and a sign of a system not fit for purpose if this possibility - parent actually dies during process - is anything more than an unbelievably tiny percentage. And do the math - change processing time from 2-3 months (that I think most people would think pretty damn reasonable for a case with no legal, security or criminality issues, no total residency requirement, no language or citizenship tests or oaths required) to 12-36 months, and the risk becomes ... noticeable.

[/rant] (and again I'm not actually that bothered by this for our case - still way more angry at Stephen [$%#$] Harper for making me a second-class citizen and putting us through all this in the first place - but it must be said ... the system is not fit for purpose)
 

expatgoingback

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Sep 10, 2020
211
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App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
Yeah, though I'm not holding my breath for that. To be fair, it's not a critical thing for us, and I'd put citizenshp for those born abroad and getting temp passports etc at far higher priority.

But seriously, it's nuts. I mean, it's such a long process that you wonder - if the citizen-parent passes away during the process, does the child's right to citizenship 'expire' too?

My guess is that technically, yes. Okay, the kid could qualify in a few years anyway by/including the residency requirement.

But it's insane and a sign of a system not fit for purpose if this possibility - parent actually dies during process - is anything more than an unbelievably tiny percentage. And do the math - change processing time from 2-3 months (that I think most people would think pretty damn reasonable for a case with no legal, security or criminality issues, no total residency requirement, no language or citizenship tests or oaths required) to 12-36 months, and the risk becomes ... noticeable.

[/rant] (and again I'm not actually that bothered by this for our case - still way more angry at Stephen [$%#$] Harper for making me a second-class citizen and putting us through all this in the first place - but it must be said ... the system is not fit for purpose)
I agree, the real culprit was Harper. My family has been in Canada for 120 years but because I happened to be born elsewhere I can't pass citizenship on to my kid? I assume you heard there is a challenge coming up in the courts about that? (it's paywalled but I know I read it on other news sources as well):

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/12/12/if-we-are-not-canadian-what-are-we-how-a-2009-law-is-leaving-some-children-stateless.html#:~:text=Prior to 2009, the second,before or established “a substantial
 
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armoured

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I agree, the real culprit was Harper. My family has been in Canada for 120 years but because I happened to be born elsewhere I can't pass citizenship on to my kid? I assume you heard there is a challenge coming up in the courts about that? (it's paywalled but I know I read it on other news sources as well):
Funny, your info overlaps with mine. I think the number is 150 years or so in Canada (but after a hundred, who's counting), and I'm the only one born outside of Canada, moved back before I was a year old. Then apart from a year in high school, never spent any length of time outside Canada before a posting abroad. No-one in my immediate or extended family living or serious length of time outside Canada either.

So yeah - I'm following those cases iwth interest.

(Compare to the US criteria - where simply residing/working in country for X number of years 're-qualifies' you as a full citizen* - I'd have met that criteria many times over. *I'm sure my characterization of how it works in US is simplistic and wrong on some level, but the point stands - reside in US as an adult and you can pass on citizenship.)

But regardless - the processing times right now for citizenship are indicative something is very, very wrong.
 

expatgoingback

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Sep 10, 2020
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App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
Funny, your info overlaps with mine. I think the number is 150 years or so in Canada (but after a hundred, who's counting), and I'm the only one born outside of Canada, moved back before I was a year old. Then apart from a year in high school, never spent any length of time outside Canada before a posting abroad. No-one in my immediate or extended family living or serious length of time outside Canada either.

So yeah - I'm following those cases iwth interest.

(Compare to the US criteria - where simply residing/working in country for X number of years 're-qualifies' you as a full citizen* - I'd have met that criteria many times over. *I'm sure my characterization of how it works in US is simplistic and wrong on some level, but the point stands - reside in US as an adult and you can pass on citizenship.)

But regardless - the processing times right now for citizenship are indicative something is very, very wrong.
There's a lot wrong with the amount of bureaucracy in Canada in my opinion. Your case sounds even more cut and dry than mine does. Hopefully they'll either fix the unfair law or speed up the immigration process. It's ridiculous that I'm still waiting to move with my family after a year and a half and nobody at the Canadian government has the decency to provide me with a real reason for the delay.
 
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armoured

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There's a lot wrong with the amount of bureaucracy in Canada in my opinion. Your case sounds even more cut and dry than mine does. Hopefully they'll either fix the unfair law or speed up the immigration process. It's ridiculous that I'm still waiting to move with my family after a year and a half and nobody at the Canadian government has the decency to provide me with a real reason for the delay.
I don't know details of your family sponsorship case - but yes, another case of bureaucracy gone wrong is when there are very large differences between different offices. Mexico VO seems another problem one.
 

expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
211
96
App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
I just received the application returned as incomplete because "photocopies of the child's identity documents are missing or are illegible."

I'm rather angry about this because we had copies of two foreign passports and I rather logically (at least it seems to me) thought that this would cover the identification requirements nicely. (The instructions say, in two different sections, *photocopies of bio page of all valid and expired Passports/Travel Documents for [time periods]; and, *Photocopy of two pieces of personal identification [one of which that's accepted is passport with photo.] Since we had two passports attached, bizarre they didn't accept.

I could argue the point since we did meet the requirements but frankly will just return with the new, additional identification we have accumulated since applying.

Anyway, warning to others who may be applying this way - do NOT assume that if passport is included in the package that IRCC will also consider this the other piece of ID. (Although it's possible the issue with ours was two passports)
Sorry to bump this thread again but once again our paths have crossed. My sons also have two foreign passports and I intend on using them to fulfill the requirement of 2 pieces of ID. I assume you only included a single copy of the passports to fullfill the first requirement and (logically) assumed that they could use those same photocopies to fullfill the ID requirement? Reading through the guidelines it seems perfectly clear that I should be able to include two sets of photocopies of the passports to fullfill all requirements. If they don't accept that then the rules are not being explained correctly. What did you end up providing?
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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Sorry to bump this thread again but once again our paths have crossed. My sons also have two foreign passports and I intend on using them to fulfill the requirement of 2 pieces of ID. I assume you only included a single copy of the passports to fullfill the first requirement and (logically) assumed that they could use those same photocopies to fullfill the ID requirement? Reading through the guidelines it seems perfectly clear that I should be able to include two sets of photocopies of the passports to fullfill all requirements. If they don't accept that then the rules are not being explained correctly. What did you end up providing?
The issue (I believe) was that for the two pieces of ID, we used two passports (foreign - long story) which we had to provide anyway.

Resubmission (now accepted) - by the time we got it returned we had the PR card and sent that plus passport.
 

expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
211
96
App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
The issue (I believe) was that for the two pieces of ID, we used two passports (foreign - long story) which we had to provide anyway.

Resubmission (now accepted) - by the time we got it returned we had the PR card and sent that plus passport.
Thanks. It makes no mention of requiring Canadian documents, what makes you think that was the issue? In the end you provided the PR card and one foreign document (passport) and it was approved.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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Thanks. It makes no mention of requiring Canadian documents, what makes you think that was the issue? In the end you provided the PR card and one foreign document (passport) and it was approved.
I'm not saying it was specifically the Canadian docs issue, just that for some reason they didn't 'count' the other one - I mean I think it was just a dumb mistake. Sorry if that wasn't clear. (If there's some other reason they didn't accept the second passport as second ID, I don't know what it was)
 

expatgoingback

Hero Member
Sep 10, 2020
211
96
App. Filed.......
02-09-2020
I'm not saying it was specifically the Canadian docs issue, just that for some reason they didn't 'count' the other one - I mean I think it was just a dumb mistake. Sorry if that wasn't clear. (If there's some other reason they didn't accept the second passport as second ID, I don't know what it was)
Thanks, no need to apologize. I'm just thinking that I'd like to apply for my kids' citizenship as soon as possible and the two passports are the easiest to produce immediately. I think I'll gamble when the time comes and submit two copies of each passport to fulfill both requirements.