CEC wage requirement - tell us what you earned when you applied

[mailman234]

Hi all,

There appears to be a lot of scaremongering on this forum about what wage you need to earn under CEC. CEC is different from most provincial nomination programs in that there is NO REQUIREMENT that you need to earn the median wage of your NOC in that area.

Please see the following IRCC and other websites/tweets which clearly state that there is no MEDIAN wage requirement:

• https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html
• https://brazcanchamber.org/top-10-frequently-asked-questions-about-canadian-express-entry/
• https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=665&top=29
• https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968228501164904453

We know that Canadian law requires that you be paid at least minimum wage.

That being said, I understand there is a concern in the community about a disconnect between what you're earning in your job at the time of applying and your NOC. Like me, I know there are other people here who are worried that they are earning close to the minimum wage for their job, but their NOC median is sometimes double or even triple.

But the rules are the rules and while it sucks to not be paid what you're really worth, the Canadian government has clearly said that there is NO REQUIREMENT for you to earn a median wage, and I wonder if the people here who are saying things like a low wage will activate a "red flag" with a VO are just making things up and or are just plain paranoid to scare others.

To help others out, this is what I'd like you to do please:

I'd like this to be a thread that gets pinned so that we can remove fear from this community about people getting ITAs, applying for CEC, and then worrying about how a VO may assess their wage. So could you please, if you've received your CoPR or are a permanent resident through CEC, tell us:

• What NOC did you apply under CEC?
• If not in your signature, WHEN did you apply?
• What wage did you have when you applied for CEC?
• What was the median wage of your NOC in your area? - Use this tool to tell us: https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/trend-analysis/search-wages
• Did at any stage of your application experience an issue from IRCC about your wage? If so, please tell us what happened and if your application was rejected on this basis.

Thanks,

 

[Samirpanara86]

Hi all,

There appears to be a lot of scaremongering on this forum about what wage you need to earn under CEC. CEC is different from most provincial nomination programs in that there is NO REQUIREMENT that you need to earn the median wage of your NOC in that area.

Please see the following IRCC and other websites/tweets which clearly state that there is no MEDIAN wage requirement:

• https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html
• https://brazcanchamber.org/top-10-frequently-asked-questions-about-canadian-express-entry/
• https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=665&top=29
• https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968228501164904453

We know that Canadian law requires that you be paid at least minimum wage.

That being said, I understand there is a concern in the community about a disconnect between what you're earning in your job at the time of applying and your NOC. Like me, I know there are other people here who are worried that they are earning close to the minimum wage for their job, but their NOC median is sometimes double or even triple.

But the rules are the rules and while it sucks to not be paid what you're really worth, the Canadian government has clearly said that there is NO REQUIREMENT for you to earn a median wage, and I wonder if the people here who are saying things like a low wage will activate a "red flag" with a VO are just making things up and or are just plain paranoid to scare others.

To help others out, this is what I'd like you to do please:

I'd like this to be a thread that gets pinned so that we can remove fear from this community about people getting ITAs, applying for CEC, and then worrying about how a VO may assess their wage. So could you please, if you've received your CoPR or are a permanent resident through CEC, tell us:

• What NOC did you apply under CEC?
• If not in your signature, WHEN did you apply?
• What wage did you have when you applied for CEC?
• What was the median wage of your NOC in your area? - Use this tool to tell us: https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/trend-analysis/search-wages
• Did at any stage of your application experience an issue from IRCC about your wage? If so, please tell us what happened and if your application was rejected on this basis.

Thanks,

I think 2 to 4 dollar difference is acceptable. you are supervisor at a store. and you are earning 11 or 10 dollar. so it might raise some doubts in visa officer. but if you are earning more than 15 dollar while working as a supervisor so it would be acceptable. and also depends on how much turnover is there for the store.

 

[User1id2]

You are right: there is no requirement about the wage under cec stream.
However, this doesn't mean officers are stupid and they will disregard a non logical combination of wage and duties.
A supervisor, a technician whatever it is cannot be earning minimum wage. Usually people asking these questions are the mcdonalds NOC D food counter attendants who want to slip under cooks and fast food restaurant supervisors... you work at Mcdonalds for minimum wage and you claim to be a fast food restaurant manager.. that is obviously a lie and you will most likely get caught. Better get a better job instead of lying to yourself and immigration and get a 5 year ban for misreprensentation.

 

[mailman234]

You are right: there is no requirement about the wage under cec stream.
However, this doesn't mean officers are stupid and they will disregard a non logical combination of wage and duties.
A supervisor, a technician whatever it is cannot be earning minimum wage. Usually people asking these questions are the mcdonalds NOC D food counter attendants who want to slip under cooks and fast food restaurant supervisors... you work at Mcdonalds for minimum wage and you claim to be a fast food restaurant manager.. that is obviously a lie and you will most likely get caught. Better get a better job instead of lying to yourself and immigration and get a 5 year ban for misreprensentation.

I 100% disagree with you, you'd be very surprised to learn about how little people are willing to earn in areas where there aren't many jobs (especially when COVID caused so much uncertainty). I had colleagues who would be in $60k-90k jobs in cities making $14 to $18 an hour in small towns - I myself was on $15 and my NOC pays a median of $31. I now got a better job that pays $29, but hey I had to start somewhere as I'm new in this country? How's that my fault?

It is absolutely the job of officers to check whether you did the job you claimed to do - but the law allows someone to be paid a low or minimum wage for a skilled job in the context of CEC, work holiday visas and for Canadian citizens themselves. There is NOTHING stopping this for CEC (PNP, LMIA is a different story).

And what's stopping McDonald's from paying someone minimum wage to be a manager? It's not illegal? In fact, I have actually heard of this happen in very small communities where they have A&Ws and McDonald's, where a server gets paid $11.45 but the supervisor is on $12.50. Big friggin deal? There are people who are on this forum who have posted that they got PR on $16 for IT and engineering jobs!

Not saying it's right, but IRCC could be probably be sued for stating that there isn't a wage requirement but then declining someone's application purely on wage grounds for CEC.

Nobody has shown me ANY EVIDENCE on this forum of someone in CEC who had their application rejected because of their wage, it's always been because they couldn't prove their job responsibilities for that NOC.

And also Samir, how is a CEC applicant meant to show the immigration department their turnover for their store? How would they even obtain such confidential information - I can't think of a business owner who would provide this to an employee. Please state facts - I have never seen this requirement in the context of a CEC application. You saying things like a "$2 to $4 difference is acceptable" is speculation. Where is the proof??

You're welcome to prove me wrong but please show me evidence of applications being rejected in CEC purely on wage grounds.

 

[User1id2]

I 100% disagree with you, you'd be very surprised to learn about how little people are willing to earn in areas where there aren't many jobs (especially when COVID caused so much uncertainty). I had colleagues who would be in $60k-90k jobs in cities making $14 to $18 an hour in small towns - I myself was on $15 and my NOC pays a median of $31. I now got a better job that pays $29, but hey I had to start somewhere as I'm new in this country? How's that my fault?

It is absolutely the job of officers to check whether you did the job you claimed to do - but the law allows someone to be paid a low or minimum wage for a skilled job in the context of CEC, work holiday visas and for Canadian citizens themselves. There is NOTHING stopping this for CEC (PNP, LMIA is a different story).

And what's stopping McDonald's from paying someone minimum wage to be a manager? It's not illegal? In fact, I have actually heard of this happen in very small communities where they have A&Ws and McDonald's, where a server gets paid $11.45 but the supervisor is on $12.50. Big friggin deal? There are people who are on this forum who have posted that they got PR on $16 for IT and engineering jobs!

Not saying it's right, but IRCC could be probably be sued for stating that there isn't a wage requirement but then declining someone's application purely on wage grounds for CEC.

Nobody has shown me ANY EVIDENCE on this forum of someone in CEC who had their application rejected because of their wage, it's always been because they couldn't prove their job responsibilities for that NOC.

And also Samir, how is a CEC applicant meant to show the immigration department their turnover for their store? How would they even obtain such confidential information - I can't think of a business owner who would provide this to an employee. Please state facts - I have never seen this requirement in the context of a CEC application. You saying things like a "$2 to $4 difference is acceptable" is speculation. Where is the proof??

You're welcome to prove me wrong but please show me evidence of applications being rejected in CEC purely on wage grounds.

You disagree with what? Where did I disagree withh all you said. I applied using a NOC that is supposed to be paid 50k to 80k while I only Made 36k... It is Canada economy is terrible employers are assholes they don't pay enough.
I was saying if you are comfident you are not lying about your job you should not be worried about your wage as long as it makes some sense. Now when it comes to McDonald's: it is always the counter attendants who want to lie and claim a NOC O while they are in NOC D. If you are one of those and that's why you're pissed... too bad..

 

[User1id2]

I 100% disagree with you, you'd be very surprised to learn about how little people are willing to earn in areas where there aren't many jobs (especially when COVID caused so much uncertainty). I had colleagues who would be in $60k-90k jobs in cities making $14 to $18 an hour in small towns - I myself was on $15 and my NOC pays a median of $31. I now got a better job that pays $29, but hey I had to start somewhere as I'm new in this country? How's that my fault?

It is absolutely the job of officers to check whether you did the job you claimed to do - but the law allows someone to be paid a low or minimum wage for a skilled job in the context of CEC, work holiday visas and for Canadian citizens themselves. There is NOTHING stopping this for CEC (PNP, LMIA is a different story).

And what's stopping McDonald's from paying someone minimum wage to be a manager? It's not illegal? In fact, I have actually heard of this happen in very small communities where they have A&Ws and McDonald's, where a server gets paid $11.45 but the supervisor is on $12.50. Big friggin deal? There are people who are on this forum who have posted that they got PR on $16 for IT and engineering jobs!

Not saying it's right, but IRCC could be probably be sued for stating that there isn't a wage requirement but then declining someone's application purely on wage grounds for CEC.

Nobody has shown me ANY EVIDENCE on this forum of someone in CEC who had their application rejected because of their wage, it's always been because they couldn't prove their job responsibilities for that NOC.

And also Samir, how is a CEC applicant meant to show the immigration department their turnover for their store? How would they even obtain such confidential information - I can't think of a business owner who would provide this to an employee. Please state facts - I have never seen this requirement in the context of a CEC application. You saying things like a "$2 to $4 difference is acceptable" is speculation. Where is the proof??

You're welcome to prove me wrong but please show me evidence of applications being rejected in CEC purely on wage grounds.

I did not state anywhere that it will be possible to have a cec app rejected purely on wage grounds. I said a non logical wage can open up questions which can expose a liar and thus lead to a rejection. I learned that from a lawyer. If this pisses you off, then it is a red flag you are trying misrepresentation
Otherwise, you should agree because you should know better.

 

[mailman234]

I did not state anywhere that it will be possible to have a cec app rejected purely on wage grounds. I said a non logical wage can open up questions which can expose a liar and thus lead to a rejection. I learned that from a lawyer. If this pisses you off, then it is a red flag you are trying misrepresentation
Otherwise, you should agree because you should know better.

Thank you for clarifying, your previous statement that "this doesn't mean officers are stupid and they will disregard a non logical combination of wage and duties. A supervisor, a technician whatever it is cannot be earning minimum wage".

The way you said it implies that officers will reject an application even if you work in a NOC 0/A/B job on minimum or very low wage. And I'm telling you that a supervisor CAN be earning minimum wage and it DOES happen. I've also found from talking to other migrants employers overpaying their staff money, but then what they do is they get those staff to live in their apartment/house and charge them triple rent. So their wage appears high on paper but they are actually still earning minimum wage but on paper it appears they're making good money (my previous employer tried that on me, I told him to to get screwed and quit).

I am confident I am not lying about my job and like I said I got a better job that recognized my skills and is paying $29. No need to be putting words in my mouth about agreeing/disagreeing about honestly performing a skilled job as this comment isn't applicable to me - but anyone who's a McDonald's counter worker should worry like you said.

 

[User1id2]

Thank you for clarifying, your previous statement that "this doesn't mean officers are stupid and they will disregard a non logical combination of wage and duties. A supervisor, a technician whatever it is cannot be earning minimum wage".

The way you said it implies that officers will reject an application even if you work in a NOC 0/A/B job on minimum or very low wage. And I'm telling you that a supervisor CAN be earning minimum wage and it DOES happen. I've also found from talking to other migrants employers overpaying their staff money, but then what they do is they get those staff to live in their apartment/house and charge them triple rent. So their wage appears high on paper but they are actually still earning minimum wage but on paper it appears they're making good money (my previous employer tried that on me, I told him to to get screwed and quit).

I am confident I am not lying about my job and like I said I got a better job that recognized my skills and is paying $29.

No that statement by me does not logically stste that eveey single application with a lower wage than expected will be refused. There is no "imply". What I said is pretty clear.
A can imply B doesn't necessarily mean A will always lead to B. Logic.

 

[mailman234]

No that statement by me does not logically stste that eveey single application with a lower wage than expected will be refused. There is no "imply". What I said is pretty clear.
A can imply B doesn't necessarily mean A will always lead to B. Logic.

Noted. So you got your PR in the end?

 

[EscoBlades]

Any fears about this would be easily allayed if people did even the smallest bit of reading about Program requirements. Simply put, there is a responsibility from both the applicant and their employer.

IRCC and the Government of Canada are very clear to employers: "Wages offered to temporary foreign workers should be similar to wages paid to Canadian and permanent resident employees hired for the same job and work location, and with similar skills and years of experience." This means that for an employer to make use of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, they must pay the prevailing wage which is defined as the highest of either:

• the median wage on Job Bank
• the wage that is within the wage range that they are paying their current employees hired for the same job and work location, and with the same skills and years of experience

The wording is VERY specific to remove ambiguity.

Now for CEC applicants, there is certainly no minimum or median wage requirement (which dovetails with the no Proof of Funds requirement), but as has been mentioned, the onus is on the applicant to be able to prove that they have the required number of years of Skilled work experience, in their designated NOC(s), to support their application.

If you claim to be a Senior Manager in a particular NOC, but your work experience/ reference letter shows you earning in the region of a Specialist for instance, that will immediately raise some concern with an IRCC Analyst or Officer, and they will delve deeper into this. They might reach out to the applicant to ask for more docs/ information (usually via payslips and/ or Notices of Assessment), or they might contact the employer directly to confirm details.

So while there is no specific wage requirement for CEC applications, rest assured that a mismatch between an applicants earnings, NOC, and stated duties/ job title, will require further review, and delay an application. And if the necessary proof can't be provided, then yes, it stands to reason that an application could be refused on those grounds.

 

[mailman234]

Now for CEC applicants, there is certainly no minimum or median wage requirement (which dovetails with the no Proof of Funds requirement), but as has been mentioned, the onus is on the applicant to be able to prove that they have the required number of years of Skilled work experience, in their designated NOC(s), to support their application.

I'm sorry, maybe I misinterpreted this, but where does it specifically say that "the onus is on the applicant to be able to prove that they have the required number of years of Skilled work experience, in their designated NOC(s)"?

CEC doesn't require you to have any prior experience in your NOC. You could have worked in IT for 6 years overseas before coming to Canada, then did 6 months as a supervisor at a ski resort (full-time) and 6 months in marketing (full-time) to meet your 1-year CEC requirement, and you can produce proof of this via your contract, ROE, T4, reference letters, other evidence where applicable that show you did the job. Right?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html

Nowhere on the CEC website does it ask an applicant to link what they did previously before they came to Canada to what they performed in CEC.

But maybe I'm wrong? Would welcome clarification and apologies if I got it incorrect.

 

[User1id2]

Noted. So you got your PR in the end?

Still waiting not yet. Eligibility is passed though.

Any fears about this would be easily allayed if people did even the smallest bit of reading about Program requirements. Simply put, there is a responsibility from both the applicant and their employer.

IRCC and the Government of Canada are very clear to employers: "Wages offered to temporary foreign workers should be similar to wages paid to Canadian and permanent resident employees hired for the same job and work location, and with similar skills and years of experience." This means that for an employer to make use of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, they must pay the prevailing wage which is defined as the highest of either:

• the median wage on Job Bank
• the wage that is within the wage range that they are paying their current employees hired for the same job and work location, and with the same skills and years of experience

The wording is VERY specific to remove ambiguity.

Now for CEC applicants, there is certainly no minimum or median wage requirement (which dovetails with the no Proof of Funds requirement), but as has been mentioned, the onus is on the applicant to be able to prove that they have the required number of years of Skilled work experience, in their designated NOC(s), to support their application.

If you claim to be a Senior Manager in a particular NOC, but your work experience/ reference letter shows you earning in the region of a Specialist for instance, that will immediately raise some concern with an IRCC Analyst or Officer, and they will delve deeper into this. They might reach out to the applicant to ask for more docs/ information (usually via payslips and/ or Notices of Assessment), or they might contact the employer directly to confirm details.

So while there is no specific wage requirement for CEC applications, rest assured that a mismatch between an applicants earnings, NOC, and stated duties/ job title, will require further review, and delay an application. And if the necessary proof can't be provided, then yes, it stands to reason that an application could be refused on those grounds.

Thank you! That's what I am saying.
If a Mcdonalds manager is paid minimum wage; yes they're not automatically reject the application but they will question things more. The poster of this thread is stuck in that it cannot be rejected based on wage grounds. Well yesss but guess what a low wage can create red flags and it can cause refusal if the person is indeed lying. If the applicant is truthful then yes fine a delay is the worst that can happen.

 

[Samirpanara86]

You are right: there is no requirement about the wage under cec stream.
However, this doesn't mean officers are stupid and they will disregard a non logical combination of wage and duties.
A supervisor, a technician whatever it is cannot be earning minimum wage. Usually people asking these questions are the mcdonalds NOC D food counter attendants who want to slip under cooks and fast food restaurant supervisors... you work at Mcdonalds for minimum wage and you claim to be a fast food restaurant manager.. that is obviously a lie and you will most likely get caught. Better get a better job instead of lying to yourself and immigration and get a 5 year ban for misreprensentation.

Better job also gives less than minimum wage. It depends on company protocol. 2 to 4 dollar difference is everywhere. If you work in pharma industry. For e g Pfizer company will pay you 25 cad per hour and thermo fisher scientific will pay you 20 dollar as position. But wage depends on company protocol. And private restaurant will pay you some amount of 2 to 3 dollar less than other restaurants and also it depends on your experience level. If you are working somewhere as a supervisor for more than 2 years. Your wage can be increased

 

[User1id2]

Better job also gives less than minimum wage. It depends on company protocol. 2 to 4 dollar difference is everywhere. If you work in pharma industry. For e g Pfizer company will pay you 25 cad per hour and thermo fisher scientific will pay you 20 dollar as position. But wage depends on company protocol.

You guys should not be granted PR due to lack of logic alone obviously: better job in the context of my sentence is referring to a higher wage.

 

[Samirpanara86]

You guys should not be granted PR due to lack of logic alone obviously: better job in the context of my sentence is referring to a higher wage.

Brother! Nobody gives high wage in this era. You need to have. A lot of experience and better education background. Like Ph.D so on. Otherwise better job will give 20 and other private company job will give you 17 around something