CBSA automatic kiosk please help

[OhCanada90]

Dear all
I am new to this forum and I have been only an observer and I really have learned alot from it so I hope I can find some help today.
I arrived today morning in Canada as a returning PR and had to use the new kiosks used by citizens and PRs at Pearson Airport.
Took the photo, declared etc.
My question is and it might sound stupid (bare with me please). Is it possible for the kiosk to miss scanning my PR card? As in not scan it at all and prompt to take a photo and declare stuff?
Because I don't recall if it showed me that scanning was successful as I remember struggling doing the scan

I am so worried that it didn't scan and then I wasn't recorded as entered to Canada. Also can a cbsa officer change the record of entry on the system??

 

[OhCanada90]

@dpenabill would love your insight and sorry if isnt in the right forum

 

[dpenabill]

Dear all
I am new to this forum and I have been only an observer and I really have learned alot from it so I hope I can find some help today.
I arrived today morning in Canada as a returning PR and had to use the new kiosks used by citizens and PRs at Pearson Airport.
Took the photo, declared etc.
My question is and it might sound stupid (bare with me please). Is it possible for the kiosk to miss scanning my PR card? As in not scan it at all and prompt to take a photo and declare stuff?
Because I don't recall if it showed me that scanning was successful as I remember struggling doing the scan

I am so worried that it didn't scan and then I wasn't recorded as entered to Canada. Also can a cbsa officer change the record of entry on the system??

Overall: my sense is that there is NOTHING to worry about.

Longer explanation with further observations:

I am NO expert and there is a lot I do not know relative to many details.

My experience with the kiosks is rather limited, and my understanding is largely based on what is published by CBSA and IRCC (which is very general information), and some anecdotal reports, and my understanding of PoE procedures and examinations generally.

My impression is that it is highly likely all went as it is supposed to go. Otherwise you would have had a more personal engagement with a CBSA officer.

Beyond that, YOU are the person primarily responsible for keeping a precise, accurate, and complete record of all entries into Canada, and exits. Be sure you keep a complete log of all your entries and exits.

If you are worried about records kept by CBSA, you can engage in some transaction which makes an objective, clear record of your location here in Canada, and keep that with your other records. That would suffice to show your presence in Canada as of that date.

If, for example, the systems at the PoE did fail to properly record your entry, there is little or nothing you can do about that. Any attempt to "fix" it will, at best, simply create a record of your contact and not actually change the CBSA travel history records for you.

It is not common, probably rare these days, for there to be that sort of mistake, resulting in an omission. But the government does not rely on those records to be a necessarily complete record. In particular, for purposes of RO compliance and citizenship applications the government relies on the PR to provide a complete and accurate record.

 

[OhCanada90]

Overall: my sense is that there is NOTHING to worry about.

Longer explanation with further observations:

I am NO expert and there is a lot I do not know relative to many details.

My experience with the kiosks is rather limited, and my understanding is largely based on what is published by CBSA and IRCC (which is very general information), and some anecdotal reports, and my understanding of PoE procedures and examinations generally.

My impression is that it is highly likely all went as it is supposed to go. Otherwise you would have had a more personal engagement with a CBSA officer.

Beyond that, YOU are the person primarily responsible for keeping a precise, accurate, and complete record of all entries into Canada, and exits. Be sure you keep a complete log of all your entries and exits.

If you are worried about records kept by CBSA, you can engage in some transaction which makes an objective, clear record of your location here in Canada, and keep that with your other records. That would suffice to show your presence in Canada as of that date.

If, for example, the systems at the PoE did fail to properly record your entry, there is little or nothing you can do about that. Any attempt to "fix" it will, at best, simply create a record of your contact and not actually change the CBSA travel history records for you.

It is not common, probably rare these days, for there to be that sort of mistake, resulting in an omission. But the government does not rely on those records to be a necessarily complete record. In particular, for purposes of RO compliance and citizenship applications the government relies on the PR to provide a complete and accurate record.

Thank you very much for your reply
I do have boarding passes, rent agreement showing my move in date, uber trip record showing trip in my name from airport to the house. Also emails from the government regarding my isolation. Will that in your opinion suffice?

 

[dpenabill]

Thank you very much for your reply
I do have boarding passes, rent agreement showing my move in date, uber trip record showing trip in my name from airport to the house. Also emails from the government regarding my isolation. Will that in your opinion suffice?

Suffice for what?

None of that is needed to apply for a new PR card or to apply for citizenship.

If you get involved in some litigation in which showing you entered Canada on a particular date, or more generally showing your presence in Canada, what will suffice as "proof" will depend on what the particular issues are with due consideration for all the evidence, for all the relevant facts and circumstances.

The latter includes RQ-related non-routine processing attendant either a PR card application or an application for citizenship. If the PR receives RQ-related requests for proof of presence in Canada, obviously proof of entering Canada on a particular date will only suffice to show the PR entered Canada on that date, and the rest of the documentation you reference can be submitted as *evidence* to support your accounting of days present in Canada . . . but what will suffice to meet the burden of proof will depend on ALL the facts and circumstances.

Note: the vast, vast majority of PRs applying for a new PR card, or applying for citizenship, do NOT get RQ-related requests for proof . . . and most of those who do get RQ-related requests are only asked for specific documentation and not subject to a full-blown proof-of-presence process. Even for those who are subject to full blown RQ, there should be little problem meeting the burden of proof as long as the PR accurately reported (allowing for minor mistakes) his or her travel history and the PR otherwise has kept and can present the typical records any and every immigrant should be keeping.

That is, proof is not much of a problem UNLESS there is some cause for IRCC to have overt suspicions about what the PR is reporting. And if and when that happens, it is going to be about a lot, lot more than establishing isolated dates of entry.

 

[OhCanada90]

Suffice for what?

None of that is needed to apply for a new PR card or to apply for citizenship.

If you get involved in some litigation in which showing you entered Canada on a particular date, or more generally showing your presence in Canada, what will suffice as "proof" will depend on what the particular issues are with due consideration for all the evidence, for all the relevant facts and circumstances.

The latter includes RQ-related non-routine processing attendant either a PR card application or an application for citizenship. If the PR receives RQ-related requests for proof of presence in Canada, obviously proof of entering Canada on a particular date will only suffice to show the PR entered Canada on that date, and the rest of the documentation you reference can be submitted as *evidence* to support your accounting of days present in Canada . . . but what will suffice to meet the burden of proof will depend on ALL the facts and circumstances.

Note: the vast, vast majority of PRs applying for a new PR card, or applying for citizenship, do NOT get RQ-related requests for proof . . . and most of those who do get RQ-related requests are only asked for specific documentation and not subject to a full-blown proof-of-presence process. Even for those who are subject to full blown RQ, there should be little problem meeting the burden of proof as long as the PR accurately reported (allowing for minor mistakes) his or her travel history and the PR otherwise has kept and can present the typical records any and every immigrant should be keeping.

That is, proof is not much of a problem UNLESS there is some cause for IRCC to have overt suspicions about what the PR is reporting. And if and when that happens, it is going to be about a lot, lot more than establishing isolated dates of entry.

I understand, but what I meant is a proof of entry on the date mentioned by me IF cbsa has something wrong with the system at the time pr card was scanned. I didn't mean proof for presence in general I just meant for the day of entry

 

[steaky]

I understand, but what I meant is a proof of entry on the date mentioned by me IF cbsa has something wrong with the system at the time pr card was scanned. I didn't mean proof for presence in general I just meant for the day of entry

You can always order your travel history online

 

[OhCanada90]

You can always order your travel history online

Thank you steaky. But my query was if its possible to get past s kiosk (printed receipt) without the kiosk scanning the card/passport?.
Can it be ordered without a certain reason?

 

[dpenabill]

I understand, but what I meant is a proof of entry on the date mentioned by me IF cbsa has something wrong with the system at the time pr card was scanned. I didn't mean proof for presence in general I just meant for the day of entry

Overall: better to avoid making things more complicated than necessary. This is a shrug and move on scenario.

As I noted, it is highly UNLIKELY that the system failed to record your entry. If it did the odds are very high there would have been further interaction with border officials before you were allowed to proceed through the border control area.

Yes, you can simply follow the ATIP process and request a copy of the CBSA travel history for you, and inspect it for yourself to see if the entry is properly recorded there. A PR does not need to have a particular reason for making that request.

But you cannot do anything that will change that record. So if for whatever reason there is not a record for the entry, the CBSA history remains what it is.

I believe you can draw attention to yourself by submitting a request to put a note, a flag of sorts, on your record. But that falls somewhere in the range between what is unnecessary and what could be counterproductive.

Beyond that, if at a future time you are applying for a new PR card, applying for citizenship, or you are abroad and applying for a PR Travel Document, or you are otherwise engaged in a transaction with IRCC or CBSA requiring you to provide a complete and accurate travel history, that is what you do, you provide a complete and accurate travel history based on YOUR BEST knowledge of the actual facts. Then, if and only if IRCC or CBSA makes further inquiry about the particular date, then you provide your evidence of entry that date.

A single, isolated entry date is NOT going to be at issue UNLESS . . . unless you are in circumstances which otherwise raise significant questions. And if that happens, how things go, what evidence you can present, what evidence will be persuasive and considered "proof," will depend on much, much, more than just any particular documentation regarding that specific entry.

 

[steaky]

Thank you steaky. But my query was if its possible to get past s kiosk (printed receipt) without the kiosk scanning the card/passport?.
Can it be ordered without a certain reason?

No reason is needed to get the travel history.

 

[OhCanada90]

Overall: better to avoid making things more complicated than necessary. This is a shrug and move on scenario.

As I noted, it is highly UNLIKELY that the system failed to record your entry. If it did the odds are very high there would have been further interaction with border officials before you were allowed to proceed through the border control area.

Yes, you can simply follow the ATIP process and request a copy of the CBSA travel history for you, and inspect it for yourself to see if the entry is properly recorded there. A PR does not need to have a particular reason for making that request.

But you cannot do anything that will change that record. So if for whatever reason there is not a record for the entry, the CBSA history remains what it is.

I believe you can draw attention to yourself by submitting a request to put a note, a flag of sorts, on your record. But that falls somewhere in the range between what is unnecessary and what could be counterproductive.

Beyond that, if at a future time you are applying for a new PR card, applying for citizenship, or you are abroad and applying for a PR Travel Document, or you are otherwise engaged in a transaction with IRCC or CBSA requiring you to provide a complete and accurate travel history, that is what you do, you provide a complete and accurate travel history based on YOUR BEST knowledge of the actual facts. Then, if and only if IRCC or CBSA makes further inquiry about the particular date, then you provide your evidence of entry that date.

A single, isolated entry date is NOT going to be at issue UNLESS . . . unless you are in circumstances which otherwise raise significant questions. And if that happens, how things go, what evidence you can present, what evidence will be persuasive and considered "proof," will depend on much, much, more than just any particular documentation regarding that specific entry.

Thank you for your reply, its a shrug and move on I guess.
One final question related to this matter but not to my case.
can an officer change the record on the phone? If someone spoke to them and it happened to be dated wrong, can the officer change it or he/she could only leave a note there for later ?